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Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 06:49 PM Sep 2015

At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves


An Iranian asylum-seeker wearing a Christian shirt waits to be baptized in the Trinity Church in Berlin, Aug. 30, 2015. He is one of hundreds of mostly Iranian and Afghan asylum seekers who have converted to Christianity at the evangelical Trinity Church in the leafy Berlin neighborhood. Most say true belief prompted their embrace of Christianity, but there’s no overlooking the fact that the decision will also greatly boost their chances of winning asylum by allowing them to claim they would face persecution if sent home. (AP Photo/Markus Schreiber)



Mohammed is now Martin — no longer Muslim, but Christian. Zonoobi, a carpenter from the Iranian city of Shiraz, arrived in Germany with his wife and two children five months ago. He is one of hundreds of mostly Iranian and Afghan asylum seekers who have converted to Christianity at the evangelical Trinity Church in a leafy Berlin neighborhood.

Like Zonoobi, most say true belief prompted their embrace of Christianity. But there's no overlooking the fact that the decision will also greatly boost their chances of winning asylum by allowing them to claim they would face persecution if sent home.

Martens recognizes that some convert in order to improve their chances of staying in Germany — but for the pastor motivation is unimportant. Many, he said, are so taken by the Christian message that it changes their lives. And he estimates that only about 10 percent of converts do not return to church after christening.

Being Christian alone does not help an applicant, and Chancellor Angela Merkel went out of her way this week to reiterate that Islam "belongs in Germany." But in Afghanistan and Iran, for example, conversion to Christianity by a Muslim could be punished by death or imprisonment, and it is therefore unlikely that Germany would deport converted Iranian and Afghan refugees back home.


There's always a catch.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0550c14ba3024c06820218f79bc6cf07/berlin-church-muslim-refugees-converting-droves
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves (Original Post) Lordquinton Sep 2015 OP
If it's that easy to change ones entire belief system to ensure their safety... cleanhippie Sep 2015 #1
Religion is complicated isn't it? Lordquinton Sep 2015 #4
atheism Dorian Gray Sep 2015 #11
Poor souls! longship Sep 2015 #2
I keep seeing them labeled migrants Lordquinton Sep 2015 #5
It's almost like when Jews & Muslims converted in Spain during the Middle Ages isn't it? Hestia Sep 2015 #3
Almost Lordquinton Sep 2015 #6
No the priest does not say what you claim Leontius Sep 2015 #8
They're the lucky ones, then. cleanhippie Sep 2015 #9
He's not a priest. rug Sep 2015 #10
Where there's a whip, there's a way, apparently. AtheistCrusader Sep 2015 #7

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
1. If it's that easy to change ones entire belief system to ensure their safety...
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 07:01 PM
Sep 2015

Why not just drop the nonsense altogether and allow reason to take the lead?


Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
4. Religion is complicated isn't it?
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 12:10 AM
Sep 2015

They are fleeing from members of their own religion to countries that are not of their religion because the neighboring countries of their religion are refusing to accept them.

Here they are converting hoping that that will help them fit in better, be more accepted/allow them to claim asylum on the grounds that they will be killed if they are sent back due to apostasy laws.

The cynic in me could draw a lot of conclusion from that mess of religion, but these are real people who are fleeing a warzone and doing what they can to stay alive. If there is any political background things going on, then they are being used as pawns.

Don't want to get further into it cause this isn't the place, but the whole situation is rage inducing, and various religious groups are making hay over it.

Dorian Gray

(13,469 posts)
11. atheism
Thu Sep 10, 2015, 10:29 AM
Sep 2015

may be so far beyond their world view they couldn't commit to it. Perhaps they are vague believers in God. Christianity and Islam have enough similarities to be a comfortable fit for them. Atheism might be too far a reach, or they may consider it "more" blasphemous.

Regardless, they are escaping war torn places and trying to find a new home. There could be a million reasons why they are converting.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
5. I keep seeing them labeled migrants
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 12:11 AM
Sep 2015

but they aren't, they are refugees fleeing a religious war, thus why it's relatable here (I mean, that and the whole converting to get better chances of not being rejected)

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
3. It's almost like when Jews & Muslims converted in Spain during the Middle Ages isn't it?
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 09:53 PM
Sep 2015

I'm by no means saying these aren't real conversions but isn't Germany by and large secular, along with Northern Europe? It will be interesting to read in a decade if they are still following their new faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Converso

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
6. Almost
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 12:14 AM
Sep 2015

But these are actively fleeing from another region hoping to get better chances of not being sent back.

The priest in the article even says only about 10% stay converted, but that the whole process changes them forever. Probably more of a "Hey, remember that time we were so desperate not to be sent back to that hellhole that we converted to Evangelical Christianity? What crazy times, eh 'Martin'?"

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
8. No the priest does not say what you claim
Tue Sep 8, 2015, 02:37 PM
Sep 2015

He says only about 10% do not return to church after conversion.

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