Transcript: Pope Francis’s homily at his final Mass of his historic trip to the United States

[jakeXT]

The following includes Pope Francis’s remarks at the Mass on the Benjamin Franklin Parkway in Philadelphia on Sunday.

Today the word of God surprises us with powerful and thought-provoking images. Images which challenge us, but also stir our enthusiasm.

In the first reading, Joshua tells Moses that two members of the people are prophesying, speaking God’s word, without a mandate. In the Gospel, John tells Jesus that the disciples had stopped someone from casting out evil spirits in the name of Jesus. Here is the surprise: Moses and Jesus both rebuke those closest to them for being so narrow! Would that all could be prophets of God’s word! Would that everyone could work miracles in the Lord’s name!

Jesus encountered hostility from people who did not accept what he said and did. For them, his openness to the honest and sincere faith of many men and women who were not part of God’s chosen people seemed intolerable. The disciples, for their part, acted in good faith. But the temptation to be scandalized by the freedom of God, who sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous alike (Mt 5:45), bypassing bureaucracy, officialdom and inner circles, threatens the authenticity of faith. Hence it must be vigorously rejected.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/09/27/transcript-pope-franciss-homily-at-his-final-mass-of-his-historic-trip-to-the-united-states/

[gateley]

1. I am so inspired by this man -- and no one is more surprised than I.

Thanks for posting this!

[PhillyGurl]

2. Living in the thick of it in Philly

He inspired MANY people with his measured messages of hope. Truly exemplary. I was there on Sunday. Love one another!

[mr blur]

5. "Messages of hope"? Hope for what - tolerance?

Understanding? An end to the protection of child abusers? Equality for women in the RCC? An end to ignorance and bigotry against LBGT people? An acceptance that condoms can stop the spread of AIDS and stop people having a dozen kids that they can't afford?

WonderPope has changed nothing. Will change nothing. People who idolize this hypocritical little bigot are playing right into his hands.

By writing "measured" messages it would seem that you agree that he isn't actually saying anything which he needs to follow up on.

[rug]

58. You sound worried.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Well, it's nice to see PR is a effective misinformation tool even today.

Even here on DU where the popes misogyny and homophobia are regularly pointed out, the WonderPope false advertising results endure.

[gateley]

133. How exciting for you!

And, FWIW, I thought the choir in Philly was the most beautiful of all. Gave me chills.

So happy you were able to participate!

[trotsky]

3. What are you most inspired by?

His belief that marriage equality is from Satan?

His statements calling the adoption of children by homosexual couples "child abuse"?

His equating with "Naziism" the notion that some people's genders aren't necessarily determined by the chromosomes they were born with?

His efforts to restrict access to contraception worldwide?

There's so much to choose from...

[Starboard Tack]

25. Wow! Did he really say those things trotsky?

marriage equality is from Satan

adoption of children by homosexual couples "child abuse"

equating with "Naziism" the notion that some people's genders aren't necessarily determined by the chromosomes they were born with?

Are those actual quotes or did you just make that shit up?

Right. Thought so. Must be tough for you right now.

[trotsky]

28. Yes, he actually did.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
"a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/new-pope-francis-believes-gay-adoption-child-abuse130313/
In the past, he has also called the adoption of gay couples child abuse, saying it was discrimination against children.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-defends-catholic-churchs-ban-on-contraception-compares-teaching-gender-theory-to-children-in-school-to-the-nazis-132809/
"Why do I say ideological colonization? Because they use a people's need as an opportunity to come in and impose their will on children. But this is nothing new. The dictatorships of the last century did the same thing; they came in with their doctrine. Think of the Balilla. Think of the Hitler Youth," the pope said.

OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES. None of this is new. It's all been discussed right here in this very group many times.

Must be tough for you right now.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Don't forget "anthropological regression" in his book, before he became pope.

[trotsky]

38. After the red ass he's gotten on this thread,

I wouldn't be surprised if Tack hides below deck for awhile.

[Starboard Tack]

48. "After the red ass he's gotten on this thread"

What on earth is that supposed to mean? I thought we might have a conversation. Silly me.

[trotsky]

49. YOU came out guns a-blazing...

and said it was only "extremists" who have a beef with this pope.

And you thought you'd get friendly conversation after poisoning the well like that?

[Starboard Tack]

42. Thank you for telling us what he actually said.

And we all have issues with that.
Now what is your problem with what he says about the environment, consumerism, greed, immigration, loving one another, bringing peace to the world, feeding the poor, acceptance of everyone, Cuba, the death penalty, the disparity between rich and poor?
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-09-16/everybody-loves-pope-francis-even-atheists

Take your own advice

OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES. None of this is new. It's all been discussed right here in this very group many times.

This train is rolling, and the extremists, be they RW religious zealots or anti-theists who see anything connected to religion as bad, are not going to stop it. We have a good man on our side. He is not right about some things, but he is a good man. Deal with it.
When folk get entrenched in their beliefs of good and evil and see nothing in between, they marginalize themselves. That's why I think it must be tough for you right now.

Hatred and intolerance are not the answers to the world's problems. We need to work together for the greater good and put our differences aside. We have tens of thousands of immigrants landing on our shores every day here in Europe. I talk to them every day, trying to understand their struggle and support them when I can. This is real shit going down here. My eyes are open, believe me. And I'm glad this guy is on the world stage right now.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Lgbt people and women are fighting against the RCC's bigotry because our LIVES depend on it.

When will you realize that this is not a game to us?

Women are suffering and dying because they don't have access to family planning because of the Vatican's policies.

And their lobbying against human rights for lgbt people continues to incite hatred and violence around the world.

We have every right to hate and call out homophobia and misogyny here.

[Starboard Tack]

47. Did I say it was a game?

I am on the side of LGBT and women on these issues and the pressure is on the church and should be continued.
Now, what about everything else he is doing? Does that not count, or are we going to use these issues to totally discredit on everything?

You don't have to lecture me on LGBT or women's rights. Both are very important to me and I have stood up for them actively since the 60's. I do NOT support the RCC or any church, but I like this guy for many other things which are close to my heart. I have hope.

[beam me up scottie]

50. Like telling us we can just go to the store to by rubbers?

When we're infuriated by their lobbying against access to birth control?

Like comparing lgbt people who want to marry the person they love to sick assholes who want to marry animals?

That's what you consider being an ally?

You never walked back those right wing talking points and you never apologized for them.

Keep defending the Church from its victims and I'll be right here to remind you that you're not my ally in the war against women and lgbt people.

[Starboard Tack]

60. I never made a RW talking point, my dear

I also never defended any church. But you already knew that.

Such irony. You accuse me of defending something I've always opposed. I have no love for ANY church. But I love Francis as a man, same as I love you. You both stand up for what you think is right. I agree with Francis on the future of the planet and I agree with you on LGBT issues.

[rug]

61. You left out the bicycle.

You're slipping.

Oh, well, I'm sure someone will come by to post it.

ETA: Hooray! You already posted it downthread!

[beam me up scottie]

149. Good catch, rug! How about I post all of them again to make sure?

I wouldn't want anyone to miss seeing who we're dealing with.

Starboard Tack (10,889 posts)

35. They could do as you suggest, or buy their insurance elsewhere

Or they could go to any drugstore and buy some rubbers. That's what most of us do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
112. And this has what to do with the RCC?

Why would any couple want to marry in a church that doesn't accept them? Makes no sense.
You really look for extreme situations to provide fodder for your hatred of religion. How about if I wanted to marry my bicycle, or my hamster and some church opposed performing the ceremony, would you be there, fighting for my rights?

I'm sorry, but religious rights and gay rights are not the same thing. I support both. Seems like you only support one. I know many gay couples, some who married in church and some at town hall and some couldn't care less about the institution of marriage.

I think your views are self centered. You want the world to adapt to your values, like the vegan who wants everyone to quit eating meat. What a boring world that would be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123723

Starboard Tack This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

176. Really? And how exactly did I do that?

You seem to confuse marriage and sexuality. The first is about a ceremonial binding of two entities. The second is about sex.
Who are you to tell me I cannot marry my dog, or my brother, or my mother, or my fucking bicycle, if I so wish. You don't get to decide these things. Sorry to disappoint you.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:12 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124676

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
177. No, I am not equating it with anything.

We should all have the right to marry whomever or whatever, provided it is consensual and conducted of sound mind.
Do you have a problem with sisters marrying each other? I don't. How about other family members? Do you draw lines and, if so, why?

My point, as I'm sure you are already aware, was about seeking approval from the RCC or any other church, to get married. That approval comes from within one's own conscience. Official approval comes from the state. Fuck the church and fuck those who want to paint me as an enemy of equal rights. Fuck the bigots and bullies and nasty hate mongering anti-theists. Fuck all fascists.

Happy Easter!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124679

[trotsky]

46. "Us"? No, just you.

Everyone else is plenty informed about what he said. You made a nasty swipe at me and got utterly shot down.

And no, I will not consider him to be a "good man" as long as he thinks the way he does about LGBTQ equality and reproductive rights. Those are two uncompromisable issues in my book.

You need to keep in mind, your "good man" WILL NOT COMPROMISE. He believes that he and his church know what the divine creator of the universe demands. You can't compromise with that. His church OFFICIALLY TEACHES that homosexuality is "disordered." And they aren't going to change that.

I agree with you on one thing: yes, there is real shit going down here. And the pope is making it shittier for people that I VALUE A LOT. So fuck the pope, let him and his church come around and respect (and accept) basic rights first.

[Starboard Tack]

55. "utterly shot down" Really?

Shot down by whom? Oh right, the gun guy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=213705

BTW, did I ever suggest compromising with Francis on Catholic doctrine? No. I am with you 100% on that. The difference is that I can separate issues, support him where I agree and oppose him where I disagree. I don't mix poison with my drink.

I am in Italy, which is actually on the front line of so many issues that affect us all, not just women and same sex couples. We are not dealing with doctrinal issues here. We are dealing with wave after wave of desperate human beings struggling for survival. That and the environment are my priorities.

[trotsky]

96. Yep, shot down.

As usual.

I oppose the fuck out of that horrible bigot. I make NO EXCUSES for him, unlike you, who would rather attack DUers who support equality and reproductive freedom. And you ARE the one mixing the poison of the RCC's bigotry in with your drink. Hope it's yummy.

So, how have the refugees affected your 1-percenter 90-day holiday in your Italian villa? Making lots of sacrifices for them, are you?

[Starboard Tack]

99. Where did I make excuses for anyone?

Not my style. Francis can answer to his critics. He's a big boy. No, I do NOT mix the poison in my drinks. I keep issues separate. You might try it, instead of constantly muddying the waters with your obsessive rants about what a "horrible bigot" he is. You still, after all this time don't understand the meaning of the word.

You have a vividly assumptive imagination if you think I am a 1-percenter living in my "Italian villa". Remember that when you look up "bigotry". I know, you sit there dreaming of yachts and villas, but my reality is very different. I am not on vacation. I live here, in a very humble stone cottage that needs much work. My labor helps pay the rent. There are a lot of real vermin around here that I'm having to deal with, but that's the price one pays for living in the coutryside.
Regarding the immigrants and homeless, I make contact with them daily. I talk to them, give them what little money I can afford to help feed them. I listen to their stories and my heart goes out to them. I translated a few documents for NGO's working with the homeless. I don't consider any of these things a sacrifice.

Additionally, I talk to friends and acquaintances, all liberals, regularly about the migrant situation, the Pope and other pressing topics. The vast majority of my friends are lapsed catholics or atheists. I know only 2 people who ever attend mass. Yet, without exception, they all support Francis, in spite of his intransigence on LGBT issues. Everyone hopes that he will move in the right direction there, but no-one is holding their breath. The other issues are so much bigger, right now. We can sweep the floor later, when we've made sure the roof doesn't cave in. Even very important issues can seem petty in times like these.

If you care about the migrant/refugee crisis and would like to help out, let me know and I'll introduce you to the right people, no priests or bible thumpers, just good folk who care about the less fortunate.

[trotsky]

104. LOL, you have't made excuses? As they say, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

And I have no reason to believe ANYTHING you say given your horrible track record. You run around accusing everyone else of being a bigot or a bully or "vermin" and then think that gives you license to be even more nasty, just ratcheting it up. Once again YOU STARTED THE ESCALATION in this thread, accusing anyone not in the Wonderpope Fan Club of being an "extremist." WTF, man? You praise Frank for being a "uniter" (as long as you're not LGBTQ, I guess) and then you pull that kind of shit.

Given rug's latest stunt that was exposed for all to see, I can see why you're such great pals.

[Starboard Tack]

107. I have no idea what you are talking about

I wish you well

[trotsky]

108. No, of course you don't.

Denial.

[Starboard Tack]

110. I take it you don't want to come see for yourself, maybe help out.

Let me know if you change your mind. I'll make sure you have a place to stay, nothing fancy, but comfortable enough.

[rug]

64. So, what do you consider to be the difference to be between "us" and "everyone else"?

Are you glancing sideways as you post to make sure you have help?

[Lordquinton]

52. His quotes on oes points have been posted here many times

And I'm sure they were all OPs.

At is point you're flat out lieing.

You're absolutely on the wrong site.

[cleanhippie]

78. "Right. Thought so. Must be tough for you right now."

I wouldn't blame you if you feel stupid, ST. Not only did you spew idiotic nonsense, you spewed demonstrably wrong idiotic nonsense in a childish attempt to demean another.

Are those actual quotes or did you just make that shit up?

Right. Thought so. Must be tough for you right now.

Epic. Fail.

[gateley]

132. Oh, I see -- you really don't give a shit why he inspires me --

Just wanted to get your jabs in.

Sigh. Grow up.

[trotsky]

134. No I want to know why people admire this guy.

He has said very hurtful things about LGBTQ people. He stands firmly against some major positions we take as liberals. What are you inspired by, exactly?

[gateley]

136. Haha -- I have to laugh at myself. I haven't been on DU in days and just went to respond to

your post and went into a long explanation of why I admired BIDEN -- I'm so used explaining that for the past several years -- I automatically thought that was what the thread was about. I had to delete the post after I paid attention.

So, about the Pope. I think it's par for the course for the fucking Pope for Pete's sake. But he also walks the talk about caring for the poor, has fired/demoted bigwigs in the Church for getting caught up in the trappings, and is NOT hiding the sexual horror that's transpired and is trying to help heal and rectify.

It's a step. He's not where we would want him to be, but I've never seen a Pope set a Love One Another example as he has. He makes me realize what's good about ME, and inspires me to (to paraphrase him) make my mission Love. And it's not because that's what I'm "supposed" to do, it's because I FEEL better when I'm acting from love and acceptance rather than from judgment and fear. Hard to stay in that mindset, but he made my heart feel good, and I want it to feel good like that as much as possible.

If that makes sense.

[trotsky]

137. OK let's look at your items one by one.

1) "he... walks the talk about caring for the poor"
But by refusing to consider contraception as part of the solution, he's making the problem worse. Women and families in poverty need to control their own reproductive choices. Affordable and universally accessible birth control would help address not just poverty, but also climate change and civil conflict. Everything else he's SAID about the poor is no different than his predecessors. And the Vatican sits on a literally uncountable fortune in money and assets. They're going to lecture everyone else about helping the poor?

2) "he ... has fired/demoted bigwigs in the Church for getting caught up in the trappings"
Only when public outrage forced action. I assume you're talking about the so-called "Bishop of Bling"? The pope didn't fire him. He was allowed to resign from his position, and blame an underling in the process. But he wasn't defrocked or anything like that. He is still employed by the Vatican.

3) "he... is NOT hiding the sexual horror that's transpired and is trying to help heal and rectify"
Yet he's not actually doing anything more significant than his predecessors here, either. Lots of talk, little action. Cardinal Law is STILL shielded and safe, living out a comfortable retirement far from the legal reach of secular authorities. And then there's this, the perspective of those who were abused. I'm going to give a lot of weight to their thoughts and observations.

What it comes down to is, the pope and his church are running a fabulous PR campaign. I really have to tip my hat to the incredible skill of the former FOX News guy they employed to perform exactly that function.

[gateley]

138. Okay, I'm not even going to address these points individually, but I have to ask --

what is your goal, here?

You asked why I found him inspiration, and I answered you. Are you now trying to show me I'm wrong? To what end? What do you hope to accomplish?

You can discount everything I said, but you CAN'T discount how i FELT when watching and listening to him. Am I not allowed that?

But go ahead, give it a try.

[trotsky]

139. You can feel whatever you want.

I just like to know when I'm being fooled. I want real solutions to our problems, not someone who says one thing but does another. YMMV.

[gateley]

140. You know, at this point in my life (old!)

I figure whatever helps me through is what I want. My beliefs change, and I don't care -- ultimately it doesn't matter WHAT I believe after I die because what happens will happen. I don't want to go through the rest of my life being negative, doubtful an suspicious -- primarily because it makes ME feel awful.

So if this guy gives my heart a lift, that's a real solution for me.

I'm not a Christian nor do I subscribe to any organized religion or belief. I was just touched by this man. It's as simple as that. Shouldn't bother you at all.

[trotsky]

141. That's great you feel good.

It's just too bad he's not actually doing anything to really help. That's what bothers me.

[gateley]

143. And so, what are you going to do about it?

I understand your frustration (honestly) but pointing out WHY he's bogus isn't accomplishing anything. If you believe in what his PR machine is pretending he does, then you need to do that in you your own way. You are the change. Whirrled peas begins with me, etc.

That's what he did for me. I'm more aware of being kinder (except on DU!), helping when I can, and re-examining my motives, progress, etc -- daily. I feel better for it.

If he inspires others to do good, bullshit or not, that's a good thing.

Again, just knowing/believing he's full of shit doesn't help anybody, that I can see.

AND PS -- when I feel good, others around me benefit, too.

[trotsky]

144. Post the facts.

Some people will read them, some won't. Some will be swayed, some won't. You have placed yourself in the latter category of both of those. That's fine. That's your right.

You are inspired by the pope to feel better. Some people are inspired by him to deny women the right to access birth control. Others are inspired by him to prevent gay couples from getting married, or adopting children. That inspiration ain't all sunshine and rainbows.

But in the end, all I can do is post the facts. Maybe some eyes will be opened. Hateful, bitter individuals attack me a lot on here, but I think there are much better ways to solve our problems than doing what an old celibate man in a funny hat tells us to. That's my opinion, and I am allowed to express it.

[gateley]

145. If someone is "inspired" to deny women birth control or not allow gay couples to marry, adopt,

I don't think they're too influenced by him (as evidenced by the Right's criticisms). Those who will lean that way are there regardless of his pronouncements.

I just think more can be accomplished, this can be a better world, if we live what we believe in, rather than telling people what NOT to believe. Facts didn't change many people from not voting Republican.

[trotsky]

146. You are putting on blinders if you don't think people are inspired to do those things.

But then again, I've posted the facts, and you've said you are not interested in them.

Like those Republican voters, I guess.


“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ― Isaac Asimov

[gateley]

147. Nice talking to you. I especially appreciate you likening me to Republican voters.

I don't recall saying "I'm not interested in" the facts. I merely said I wasn't going to address them individually. I guess you're kind of like the Republican voters, too -- hearing only what you want to hear and twisting my meaning to suit your purpose.

So you can go judge someone else, drop in your pithy Asimov quotes, and save the world in your own way.

God speed.

[trotsky]

148. Hey, whatever you need to say to me to make yourself feel better is fine.

I've posted facts. You made it personal from the get-go, telling me to "grow up" simply because I questioned how one could be inspired by a homophobic bigot working hard to deny reproductive and other rights to our fellow human beings. I've posted facts to support my position. You've responded, not by countering my facts with others, but with more personal attacks. I am very comfortable with how this discussion played out, and happy to let all readers be the judge of the exchange.

Take care.

[Starboard Tack]

4. He is a true inspiration for us all, believers and non-believers.

The extremists on both the right and left are having a tough time coming to grips with Francis. Fact is, the world needs more leaders like him, be they political or spiritual.

I must say, I never thought I would be supporting a Pope, but wonders never cease.
Thanks for posting.

[Lordquinton]

6. If you think LGBTQIA rights = extremism

then you are on the wrong site.

[Starboard Tack]

20. Right site, wrong group

Extremism comes in many forms.

[LostOne4Ever]

41. Righteous Hide!!!

Last edited Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Another voice against oppression of the LGBTQ community is silenced by those supporting theocratic privilege!!!

Let us all as one condemn this injustice and rally behind the chant:

[center][font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=7 color=crimson]Free Atheist Crusader!!![/font][/center]

[center]DOWN WITH THE THEOCRACY!!!![/font][/center]

[kdmorris]

43. While your post will probably get hidden, it shouldn't be

He is quite vicious and a homophobe, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=213705

[beam me up scottie]

33. Like comparing lgbt to people who want to marry animals, family members and inanimate objects?

For the audience members who may be new to the discussion of just who is and who isn't an extremist in this group.

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
112. And this has what to do with the RCC?

Why would any couple want to marry in a church that doesn't accept them? Makes no sense.
You really look for extreme situations to provide fodder for your hatred of religion. How about if I wanted to marry my bicycle, or my hamster and some church opposed performing the ceremony, would you be there, fighting for my rights?

I'm sorry, but religious rights and gay rights are not the same thing. I support both. Seems like you only support one. I know many gay couples, some who married in church and some at town hall and some couldn't care less about the institution of marriage.

I think your views are self centered. You want the world to adapt to your values, like the vegan who wants everyone to quit eating meat. What a boring world that would be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123723

Starboard Tack This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

176. Really? And how exactly did I do that?

You seem to confuse marriage and sexuality. The first is about a ceremonial binding of two entities. The second is about sex.
Who are you to tell me I cannot marry my dog, or my brother, or my mother, or my fucking bicycle, if I so wish. You don't get to decide these things. Sorry to disappoint you.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:12 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124676

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
177. No, I am not equating it with anything.

We should all have the right to marry whomever or whatever, provided it is consensual and conducted of sound mind.
Do you have a problem with sisters marrying each other? I don't. How about other family members? Do you draw lines and, if so, why?

My point, as I'm sure you are already aware, was about seeking approval from the RCC or any other church, to get married. That approval comes from within one's own conscience. Official approval comes from the state. Fuck the church and fuck those who want to paint me as an enemy of equal rights. Fuck the bigots and bullies and nasty hate mongering anti-theists. Fuck all fascists.

Happy Easter!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124679

The only extremists here are the apologists who refuse to acknowledge the RCC's blatant homophobia and misogyny and repeatedly attack posters who call it out.

[trotsky]

34. And I'll "tack" on my usual contribution!

Gotta love his concern for women's reproductive needs when their employer refuses to cover it. They only require "rubbers," ya see? Lady parts aren't complex, are they?

Starboard Tack (11,129 posts)
35. They could do as you suggest, or buy their insurance elsewhere

Or they could go to any drugstore and buy some rubbers. That's what most of us do.

[Lordquinton]

51. So we should only care about LGBTQIA folks in their group?

So not only should they wait until you say it's ok to act, they should do it quietly and in a separate space? I recall protest zones like that in the recent past, and they definitely were not by anyone we should be emulating.

[Starboard Tack]

56. No, fight the good fight wherever

Just try to stay on topic.

[MisterP]

54. for the response:

On Tue Sep 29, 2015, 01:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Fuck you, you vicious jackass.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=213698

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is over the top. He can do this without acting this way.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 29, 2015, 01:57 PM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree the person who this is directed at is a problem but this isn't acceptable.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sorry, but it's still a TOS violation.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter, find a better way to express disagreement with another DUer. The level of discourse gets lower all the time unless people start finding ways to talk to each like adults.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Obvious hide.
What, does AtheistCrusader think he "has God on his side" allowing him to break the rules? Nope. Gots to pay the consequences.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: alertee crossing line, and also tampering with the jury

[Starboard Tack]

57. Thanks Mr P

Someone else already sent me the link. I guess he was finally ready for his vacation.

[MisterP]

59. it's always more HOW people say than WHAT, isn't it?

[Starboard Tack]

62. It sure is.

[skepticscott]

7. Yes, if we had more leaders like him

LGBT persons would be second-class citizens, deprived of their full human rights, in every country on earth, forever. Apparently you consider those opposed to that prospect to be "extremist", which is not only disgusting, but mind-boggling on what is supposed to be a progressive website, not to mention coming from someone who claims to speak out against bigotry at every opportunity.

And don't know about you, but Wonderpope isn't "inspiring" anything in me, nor do I need him to. He's way late to the party on issues that have been important to a lot of us for a very long time. It's only the cult of celebrity surrounding him that causes people like you to give him some sort of credit for jumping in on what others have been fighting for for decades.

[AlbertCat]

13. Yes, if we had more leaders like him

It is strange how people want a leader who puts so much store in a bunch of ancient superstitions, he actually drops out of a regular life... and then lectures us on how to live a regular life.... one he thought he was too good for and joined some ancient boy's club.

[Starboard Tack]

21. I give him credit where credit is due

As I do with you and everyone else. He is a uniter. Unfortunately, you are not in this case. We should all work together to find common ground. This is not about RCC doctrine, but rather a man prepared to speak out on things he and all of us care about.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Actually, he has quite literally invested a lot of effort in dividing people.

Such As prospective same sex parents that want to adopt in Catholic dominated countries, where this pope has bleated from his pulpit, just in the last 6 months, that it's a form of discrimination against the child to allow same sex couples to adopt.

But everyone knows, you don't care about the reality or facts around pope hopey-changey.

[Starboard Tack]

29. So, he has a different opinion from you and me about some things

And those are things he should be confronted on. I don't agree with Obama on everything, but I love the guy. I don't agree with Francis on everything, but I love the guy. I don't agree with you on everything, but I think I love you too.

We are in a war to save the planet right now. There will always be battles to fight and hopefully win. The RCC has much to answer for, and Francis acknowledges that. He has alienated many in his church by standing up for causes that effect us all. He is not a "Wonderpope" as some like to call him, but a humble man who is bringing people of all stripes together.

Sorry you have a problem with that.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Different opinion. Different opinion. Yes, I have the opinion that people should be treated like

human beings. Really sets me apart from him. And from you, apparently.

You really should reconsider the people you decide to become a human shield for. Is the pope really worth it?

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. Let me ask you something.

If the Pope should be confronted on these things, why the fuck do you rush to his defense every time someone brings them up?

#thingsthatmakeyougohmmmmmmmm

[AtheistCrusader]

39. IT IS A MYSTERY

[Starboard Tack]

94. If you read my posts you'd see that I don't defend him on those isues

I support him on other issues as you well know.

[muriel_volestrangler]

97. You defend the Catholic church a hell of a lot

Here was the list in just one thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218122885#post170

And those Catholic policies and actions you were defending there are all approved of by Francis.

[trotsky]

98. Thanks for that. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

106. And where do I defend any of those policies?

Repeating something over and over does not make it true Muriel, even if a whole bunch of you repeat it.

I like Francis for his stances against poverty and greed.
I like Francis for his stance on the environment and out of control consumerism.

Those are the things that I care about the most.

It would be wonderful if he changed the course of the RCC on same sex marriage, LGBT and women, but that is probably not going to happen. You know what is funny? I have many friends in same sex unions and several are married. Some are even Catholic and would like to have been married in a RC church. But they all, without exception, like Francis for what he IS doing, not what he ISN'T doing. Then again, I tend to seek out tolerant, cup-half-full friends, YMMV.

Negativity and hatred never accomplished anything positive. I'm not accusing you of that, but there is so much negativity floating around these days. Very sad, especially when it comes from those whose ideals I share.

[muriel_volestrangler]

109. The subject of that thread was the pope attacking same-sex parents

and you were making extensive excuses for him, saying it's not our concern if the Catholic church tries to influence legislation about LGBT parents. Plus that people don't have to go to Catholic hospitals, so it's just fine if they do things like refuse to do medically necessary tubal ligations at the same time as a Caesarean delivery.

"Negativity and hatred never accomplished anything positive. "

"Ignore them. They neither help nor hinder

They are irrelevant and it is their irrelevance that both pisses them off and motivates them. They have no substance and seek to feed off those who do. Responding to their mockery and theophobia only encourages them.
If you leave crumbs on the lunch room counter, the vermin will come to feed. Keep it clean and they will crawl back to the dark corners to fester and eventually consume each other. "

2 quotes from you.

[Starboard Tack]

111. So, where exactly do you disagree with me?

And where exactly do excuse the RCC or Francis?

[Act_of_Reparation]

114. Whenever someone opens their mouth to criticize the Pope...

...you rush in to call them a bigot or an extremist, yammering on incessantly about all the good things he does despite his backwards attitudes. You may not directly defend his less-palatable decisions, but you overtly discredit those actively taking him to task, which is qualitatively no different.

You say the Pope should be criticized, but I sure as shit have never seen you do it. Of course, there is some question as to how you would do it, given you seem to think direct criticism is the wrong approach. Perhaps you think calling him an "inspiration" to "theists and atheists alike" will provide the necessary impetus to push him towards a more egalitarian worldview? If that's the case, why aren't you being nicer to BMUS, Skepticscott, trotsky, and Mr. Blur? Sure, you think they're bigots... but they hold some very liberal positions on poverty, climate change, and social justice. Why is it you treat them differently from the Pope? Do they not inspire you, or something?

And what about Ron Paul and the legion of nattering libertarian goons he commands? They have some very liberal positions - decriminalization of drugs, decreasing military spending, eliminating domestic surveillance - despite their penchant for racism and poor-shaming. Should we worry that criticizing Paul as the racist mental-midget he is might alienate potential allies in the anti-war movement?

It's a mystery... except it's not.

[skepticscott]

116. +100

[trotsky]

121. Excellent post.

Thank you for that.

[Starboard Tack]

122. Tad OTT there my friend. "Whenever" is a big word.

Whenever someone opens their mouth to criticize the Pope you rush in to call them a bigot or an extremist, yammering on incessantly about all the good things he does despite his backwards attitudes. You may not directly defend his less-palatable decisions, but you overtly discredit those actively taking him to task, which is qualitatively no different.

I take the Pope and the RCC to task on many things. I've been doing it for over 50 years. We are not on a Vatican run website here, but a liberal Democratic one, even progressive at times. The folk I engage with here are not part of the RCC hierarchy, or Ron fucking Paul. They are supposedly liberal progressives. I try to be nice to everyone, especially BMUS, whom I adore for her diligence and support. And she does it for free.
I'm sorry if it offends people, but I espouse tolerance, not bigotry. I get called all kinds of names by those you mentioned, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change who I am. I love people. I may hate their ideas on certain things, but I still love them. Even the Pope. If you'd told me 30 years ago I would say something like that, I would have thought you crazy.

We should speak out on all issues that we care about, be it with Ron Paul, Pope Francis or trotsky and his friends. But we don't have to be mean spirited about it. I don't think bigots are necessarily bad people, they are just ignorant and need to be called on their bigotry. I have made remarks here which some have used over and over, in an attempt to paint me as a bigot. Some have bought into that characterization, for whatever reason. Doesn't bother me. I'm comfortable with who I am and the path I'm on. I'm not here looking for friends or support, or to defend myself. I'm just here to participate and throw in my 2 cents worth.

If I have a message, then it is about tolerance and humility. My experience here on DU has been enlightening, to say the least. I was accustomed to discussing religion and politics with evangelicals and conservatives. I thought coming here would be boring, like preaching to the choir, what would be the point? After all, we're all on the same side, right? Boy, was I surprised. First thing I did was join A&A, find some kindred spirits, so to speak. Right, well we all know how that went down. And I joined the Gungeon, thinking "Yeah, this could be a good place to debate some NRA freaks" - more the kind of conversation I was used to having with political opponents. It was fun for a while, then it became the same old arguments, over and over. So, I only go there occasionally now.

I came here because I saw that a small group of anti-theists were behaving like bullies, trying to dominate every conversation with personal insults. And some of them are still at it. And, shame on me, I would occasionally rise to the bait.

I am totally opposed to the position of the RCC and Francis on same sex marriage, contraception and LGBT rights, but I give Francis credit for speaking out on the environment, immigration, the death penalty, consumerism, the disparity between rich and poor, Cuba and many other things. And his car.

[skepticscott]

125. Oh, the irony

Pontificating about how "Whenever" is a big word, and then doing the same thing right back, as you do over and over "...trying to dominate every conversation with personal insults". Oh, please. And "bullying"? You trot out that tired old chestnut on practically a weekly basis, but can't seem to actually back it up with any examples. Shocking. Maybe the fact that you can't seem to get along in any group you participate in says more about you than the rest of the people there. A little self-examination along those lines might serve you well.

And feel free to call the pope out on his bigotry any time now. You call fellow DUers who stand up for LGBT rights bigots at will, but can't seem to find the gumption to apply that label to the pope, who is the world's most prominent anti-LBGT activist and deserves it far more than anyone you've met here, dude.

[Starboard Tack]

126. If you actually read my posts you would see that I do call him out

on those issues. I get along with everyone Scottie, I just don't belong to any "special" groups who wear badges and sing rallying songs and put down those who don't belong.
I have never called any DU member a bigot for supporting LGBT rights, and you know it. I call people bigots for their intolerance of others beliefs, period. And I always call out bullies.
Try thinking positively for once and see the good that Francis is bringing to the world. Calling me names is not going to stop people of all faiths, and atheists from loving what he is doing. So, suck it up, big boy. Some of us want a better world, where we can raise our kids and grand kids in peace and breathe clean air and not worry about what gods others believe in. Hatred never wins. Think about it.

[skepticscott]

127. You just don't have it in you

to actually respond with directness and intellectual honesty, do you?

Show me where I said you called DU members bigots FOR supporting LGBT rights. Did you think no one noticed your slimy little dodge? I said you call DUers WHO support LGBT rights bigots, and you have. And show us where you have called the pope a bigot. You can't. You say proudly that you call other people bigots for their intolerance of other's beliefs (even when you know perfectly well that they actually DO tolerate those beliefs), but flat-out refuse to call someone a bigot for intolerance of other people's very nature. Sick.

Still waiting for one shred of evidence that "bullying" has gone on here, and that you're the champion fighting against the poor bullied victims. Maybe one day you'll get tired or trotting out the same unsubstantiated nonsense.

And "try thinking positively for once"? Yes, you're so right...I have NEVER thought positively before and it's killing me that you've seen right through me. OTT much? But now I'm thinking positively that you're full of it, so I must be cured

As I've said, I don't need Blank Frank the PR pope to "inspire" me. I've been on the right side of everything that matters long before the world had ever heard of him, and he and his misbegotten, homophobic, child-raping church are about the last place any decent person needs to look for moral guidance. You feel free to adore him, dude. I can do better.

[Starboard Tack]

129. For a "sciency" kinda guy, your logic is a disaster.

I said you call DUers WHO support LGBT rights bigots

Why would I ever do that? That would be a broad brush bigoted statement. Something you are very good at making. That's what bigotry is Scottie, making broad brush bigoted statements to demonstrate a rigid and intolerant mind.

I and everyone here at DU support LGBT rights. So, we'll all be waiting for you to back up your statement that I called all DUers bigots.
Maybe you think all Afghans are Taliban and all Muslims are ISIS.

Thanks for, once again, showing us your true colors.

Calling the Pope a "homophobic, child raping bigot" does not make it true, but it says much about your credibility.

[skepticscott]

130. Thanks for proving my point for everyone to see

Last edited Thu Oct 1, 2015, 07:51 AM - Edit history (1)

we'll all be waiting for you to back up your statement that I called all DUers bigots.

Show me where I made that statement. You can't, because you made it up. More intellectual dishonesty, which seems to be your stock in trade. I said that there are DUers who support LGBT rights but who you still call bigots. Which is true, and which you've done again in this post.

Calling the Pope a "homophobic, child raping bigot" does not make it true, but it says much about your credibility.

Except that I didn't do that. As anyone who can read, including you, knows. The phrase you put in quotes is nowhere in my post. Need I say it, still more intellectual dishonesty. The pope IS a homophobic bigot, as anyone who was really opposed to bigotry would acknowledge. Priests in his church have raped countless children, and the church has conspired to cover up and abet those crimes.

When you can only respond by deliberately and transparently distorting what other people have said, it's time to take a step back and question your motivations, dude. Everyone but you sees how pathetic it is.

[Starboard Tack]

131. Here you go, Scottie, for you and "anyone who can read"

I said you call DUers WHO support LGBT rights bigots, and you have.

I'll withdraw my statement if you can link to anyone on DU who opposes LGBT rights.

Here's your other little gem

he and his misbegotten, homophobic, child-raping church

Very classy.

[skepticscott]

45. A uniter? Is that what you call someone

who tries to deny whole segments of the population their full human rights? Someone who speaks out because he cares deeply that gays and lesbians NEVER be allowed to live as they are entitled to? The only people that "unites" are the bigots and homophobes who share his "opinion".

Sorry, that's just sick, and has no place on a progressive website.

[Starboard Tack]

63. And if what you said were true, then I would agree with you.

Good to see you back Scottie

[skepticscott]

65. Glad you agree with me, then

Because that's exactly what the pope does. And exactly what he and his church will continue to do as long as they get support from folks like you.

Oh, but silly me...of COURSE you have all kinds of examples of people he's "united", who would have been hopelessly separated without his incomparable wisdom and inspiring leadership. Or maybe you think that someone who wants to "unite" everyone under the bigoted doctrine of the One True and Universal Church is a hero and and inspiration to "all of us".

[Starboard Tack]

67. OK, Scottie, let me explain this clearly for you.

1. I do NOT support the church in any way.
2. I support the man, Francis, in his efforts to unite people to save the environment.
3. I oppose Francis and his church on issues regarding same sex marriage, contraception, LGBT issues and female clergy.
4. I support Francis in his efforts to get world leaders to work towards peaceful resolutions in areas where millions are being displaced by war and conflict.
5. I support Francis in his stance on refugees and immigration in general.
6. I support Francis in his stance on materialism, consumerism and greed.
7. I support Francis in his support for the underprivileged and downtrodden.

I don't give a flying fuck about his "One True and Universal Church", as you call it. That, my friend, is your problem, not mine. And there lies the difference between us. I support working together as decent human beings, reaching out to help each other in need. You, otoh, only want to attack and divide at any opportunity. And that is really sad, because your energy could be used positively. But it's a free world and your choice.
I wonder how you would have responded to Dr King. Would he have been your target, had you been around back then, or would you have marched alongside the believers and swallowed your atheistic pride?

[rug]

68. Those are very good questions.

Sadly, I know his answers.

[Starboard Tack]

73. I still have hope for him and his buddies

I was pretty strident in my youth too. Then I got out in the world and discovered it wasn't such a black and white place. I really think there is a generational thing going on here.

[goldent]

128. I think there are many with the same experience, including me.

Perhaps this is what lies behind the phrase "youth is wasted on the young"

[skepticscott]

69. You are so funny

Acting as if you can separate Pope Francis the man from the RCC.

And it's your precious pope who wishes to divide the world into straight and gay factions, with one granted full rights and one deprived of them, one considered normal and what god intended and one "disordered", not me. I would see everyone united as equal human beings. He would not. EVER. And yet you attack me for being divisive, even though you have no fucking idea how my energy is used in the real world, while gushing over him at every opportunity.

As I said, funny.

[Starboard Tack]

71. Now you are being silly

Of course I can separate the man from the church.
He's not MY POPE. I'm a fucking atheist. How can he be my Pope? He is much more your Pope than mine, because you are obsessed with his popeness, which I care little about. I care what he says on the world stage, like the OP. Maybe we could discuss that.
You are obsessed with his stance on a couple of issues, that YOU and I agree on. So why are you arguing with me?

You are right, again, I have no idea how your energy is used in the real world. In fact, I would wager that you are a decent human being, and not the divisive persona that you play here. But here is where you and I meet and that is all I know about you.
Did you read this?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/23/non-catholics-who-love-pope-francis

[skepticscott]

75. I can see you're blind to the irony of that

so I won't waste time trying to explain it.

And yes, of course some of us keep harping on his stance on certain issues. Because those are the things he says and does that are bigoted and despicable, and that he and his church should be called out on until they change. Keeping silent because people like you call us "obsessed" isn't an option, nor is saying, "I care little" about his promotion of bigotry because he says some things I agree with.

As far as arguing, you're the one who dived into this thread calling people like me "extremists", so spare me the "why can't we all get along?" bullshit.

[kdmorris]

8. Yeah, I can't help but to love him

They should make a warm and fuzzy movie about how wonderful he is...

[Starboard Tack]

22. I'm sure he loves you too

I don't see him discriminating when it comes to loving people.

[trotsky]

32. No, we don't expect any better from him.

But thankfully every time he resurfaces with this nastiness, a whole new group of people get to see him for the person he is.

[kdmorris]

40. Well, that's a good point

It really shouldn't surprise me that someone who reduces marriage equality to wanting to marry your bicycle or your sister would find this pope inspiring.

[AlbertCat]

9. a tough time coming to grips with Francis.

Those of us who worked in theater, film, TV, and advertising have no problem whatever.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Your posts should have some sort of coded language or trigger warning.

Because your usage of 'extremist' is complete and total horseshit, and an attack on a large number of members here.

[Starboard Tack]

18. "trigger warning"?

Nice one

[LostOne4Ever]

14. No he is not, please don't speak on behalf of me or others.

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:53 PM - Edit history (2)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I will never stand with a man who said things like this:[/font]


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-abortion-and-homosexual-marriage[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]He wrote: “In the coming weeks, the Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family. . . .

“At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother, and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

Cardinal Bergoglio continued: “Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

The cardinal also noted that “today the country, in this particular situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Spirit to bring the light of truth on to the darkness of error, it need this advocate to defend us from being enchanted by many fallacies that are tried at all costs to justify this bill and to confuse and deceive the people of good will.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Or this:[/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/21/pope-transgender-people-are-like-nuclear-weapons[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]According to the National Catholic Reporter, he said: “Let’s think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings.

“Let’s think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation.”

“With this attitude, man commits a new sin, that against God the Creator.

“The true custody of creation does not have anything to do with the ideologies that consider man like an accident, like a problem to eliminate.

“God has placed man and woman and the summit of creation and has entrusted them with the earth.

“The design of the Creator is written in nature.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Or this:[/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/06/pope-slovakia-referendum_n_6630876.html[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Speaking at his weekly general audience on Wednesday, the pope said: "I greet the pilgrims from Slovakia and, through them, I wish to express my appreciation to the entire Slovak church, encouraging everyone to continue their efforts in defense of the family, the vital cell of society."

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Or this:[/font]


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/pope-francis-suggests-gay-marriage-threatens-traditional-families[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]“The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life,” Francis said at a Mass in Manila. “These realities are increasingly under attack from powerful forces, which threaten to disfigure God’s plan for creation.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Or this from the other day[/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/09/24/pope-basis-of-marriage-being-called-into-question/[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]“I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without,” Francis said. “Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]
Or his standing up for Kim Davis the other day.

But, I WILL stand up for Women & LGBTQ rights and dignity against people like the Pope; and if that makes me an left wing extremist, then I will wear that badge with pride.

I will be in good company with other left wing extremist of their time like the abolitionists, the suffragettes, the civil rights proponents, and the protesters at the stonewall riots.

Edit: adding a couple more links about the pope and Kim Davis's meeting:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pope-francis-visits-america/kim-davis-lawyer-claims-she-had-secret-meeting-pope-francis-n435916

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?_r=0

Edit2: Another link I want for the future

http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

Edit3: his who am I to judge comment in full:

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-what-pope-francis-said-about-gays[/font]

[Starboard Tack]

17. I would never, ever speak on your behalf

No worries there.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Just like that dreamy Ben Carson, amirite?

[Starboard Tack]

16. Nope. Nothing like Ben Carson

Why are you such a fan of Ben Carson?

[beam me up scottie]

19. Who was it that said they loved Ben Carson again?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=196078

[Starboard Tack]

23. You are such a peach BMUS

We can always rely on you.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. To point out the truth, yes.

[tkmorris]

53. It amazes me the numbers of people that get pissed at ya...

For just telling the bare-faced truth.

[AlbertCat]

118. For just telling the bare-faced truth.

Egomaniacs living in their own little floating world never remember what they actually said.... apparently.

[mr blur]

92. You really just don't have a clue, do you?

[Starboard Tack]

93. About what?

[skepticscott]

112. Ah, yes...a true inspiration

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0&referer=http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141220645

I assume you'll be supporting him with even more fervor now, Tack? You apparently love the way he's building bridges and forming coalitions. With bigots.

[Starboard Tack]

113. I talk to bigots every day

The world is full of them. Maybe you hadn't noticed. That's how those of us who oppose bigotry try to open minds and it isn't easy. I support all who try to make the world a better and safer place, not bigots and those who think carrying guns around is cool, but I talk to them. Ask your buddies AC and CH.

How do we get anywhere if we close ourselves off in havens of hatred?
Tolerance, my friend, is the answer, not always easy but still the way forward.

[skepticscott]

115. And of course the pope tried to dissuade her

from her bigoted attitudes. He tried to open her mind to "tolerance", right?

Oh, wait...no..he praised her for her bigoted behavior and told her to "stay strong" and stay on course. Is that what you're defending, Tack? Is that the pig you're trying to put lipstick on? Is that what YOU say to bigots when you talk to them?

[Starboard Tack]

119. How are you doing on tolerance, Scottie?

Struggling a little? I know, it isn't easy when one has an inflexible mind. I work on it every day. Coming here is like going to the gym. I love you, man. You'll get there yet.

[skepticscott]

120. Nice deflection. In other words, you have no answer

to anything I raised. But since everyone who matters can see that clearly, I'm fine with it.

As far as tolerance, I'm just dandy. I tolerate lies, insults, religious apologia, bigotry, praise of bigots and general all-around foolishness here on a daily basis. I would never seek to deprive those people of what keeps them going.

[Lordquinton]

10. ...

[rug]

66. Thanks for linking to the full trancript.

It's refreshing to see what he actually said instead of what others say he said.

I say to you. As a question, so everyone can respond. In my house, do you shout? Or, do you speak with love and tenderness? It’s a good way of measuring our love.

Too bad the haters in this thread didn't read it. Probably the same reason why vampires avoid garlic.

[Starboard Tack]

70. Isn't it amazing how blinded people can be by hate?

I still refuse to believe that any of them are like that IRL. What strange creatures we are.
I'm learning a lot about myself from the dormice in my roof. They really pissed me off for a while. Now I find them quite endearing for short periods. We'll see how that evolves. They are preparing to go into hibernation right now, so there's lots of scurrying back and forth.

[rug]

72. Now you've done it. They'll have to make dormice badges.

Such cuddly creatures.

[Starboard Tack]

74. Oh, Jesus, Rug. Did you have to do that?

I can hear them right now. I'm off to bed, which fortunately is in the basement.

[Heddi]

77. but but but I'm sure he alerted out of love

or something

[rug]

79. No, I'm pretty sure it was the "Fuck you" he typed.

[rug]

81. Are you proud of mocking safe havens?

Are you proud that you're reduced to name-calling?

Are you prod of your logic and reason?

And don't call me "dear". That is truly creepy.

[Heddi]

82. I am proud

I'm proud that I don't have to dredge up the corpses of my dead friends to make a bullshit alert. YMMV, however.

Proud that I don't have to lie to prove my point. I let other people's homophobic, bigoted, and lying posts stand for themselves and just hold the mirror

Again, YMMV.

And I'm super proud of ever word I've said to you in that post above. I love it. I will always love it, and I will wear that hide with pride, my dear fellow DU'er. Because every word I said was true. And you know it.

[rug]

83. You really are the next to the last person on this board who should speak of hypocrisy.

Say hi to the other one.

[Heddi]

84. You're cute

Good luck with your alert. I hope it's 0-7 in your favor. I really do. You earned every single word I typed, and several more that I didn't. At least I gave you something that was truly alert-worthy instead of having to come up with novel falsehoods to get attempt a hide (whoops! Only you sent an TOS alert instead of an SOP alert....which isn't anonymous...and doesn't result in a hide...just a lock....)

whoopsie!

[rug]

85. You're not.

The words of your last three posts come from a place I think very little of, and then, only on Tuesdays.

Enjoy your metafest. That is truly the only thing I've seen you excel at here.

[Lordquinton]

86. Hi rug!

[rug]

87. Did Heddi say hi?

[Lordquinton]

89. She said to pass it on

[Starboard Tack]

95. Ah yes, that pride thing. Tends to get in the way at times.

Enjoy your celebration.

[beam me up scottie]

88. No, what's truly creepy is exploiting a friend's death to score points on DU.

You'd better get used to being reminded of that stunt, rug, because you're never going to live it down.

Name calling is nothing compared to what you did tonight.

[Rob H.]

90. So much for the notion that being religious makes one more honest nt

[beam me up scottie]

91. No kidding.

[cleanhippie]

100. He'a lawyer, which should explain it all.

[rug]

103. Ah, so there is more than one group you broad brush.

Quelle surprise.

[rug]

102. So mch for the notion that atheism makes one rationaL

[Rob H.]

124. Given the link that bmus posted to your alert

in A&A, do you really think it wise at the moment to make comments about rationality?

[cleanhippie]

105. "Shyster" was on my word-of-the-day calandar. How apropos.

shy·ster
ˈSHīstər/
nouninformal
noun: shyster; plural noun: shysters

a person, especially a lawyer, who uses unscrupulous, fraudulent, or deceptive methods in business.

[AlbertCat]

117. His post may be hidden

But I will never forget how he who just called others homophobes accused me of groping my clientele when I took an inseam measurement .... and thought that was funny... and then got me hidden for pointing out his homophobic and insulting "joke".

Unbelievable!

[Capt. Obvious]

123. That doesn't sound like the rug I know

No wait. Yeah it does.

[LiberalAndProud]

142. Adulation.

That's one emotion I don't trust.

The pope is doing his best to put a new and improved face on an organization which has a long and sordid history. I fail to share the inspiration. Perhaps I'm jaded from too many face lifts.