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Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:19 AM

Shocked Liberals Discover Pope Is Actually...Catholic!



Here’s a newsflash for liberals who first swooned over Pope Francis’s U.S. visit, only to be stunned and dismayed by reports that he had met with Kim Davis at the Vatican Embassy before departing Washington on Thursday. Francis’s statements and gestures of inclusiveness for immigrants and the homeless, his exhortations to save the environment and address income inequality, his kisses and blessings to disabled children, and his meeting with Davis are all consistent with his role as head of the Catholic Church.

In other words, to use an old cliché, the Pope is still Catholic.

Too many American progressives have pinned unrealistic hopes on Francis being a breath of fresh air, a new kind of Pope, a man of the people, a liberal, a magician who could not only singlehandedly reform a byzantine institution but miraculously quell the American culture wars with his winsome ways.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard progressives, even ardent secularists, sigh with admiration, “I love that guy.” Which is fine. There are things to love about him. But he is a religious leader of a religious institution whose framework for seeing the world defies contemporary American political categories. He’s not a liberal. He’s not a conservative. He’s a Catholic.

The catechism of the Catholic Church declares “homosexual acts” to be “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to natural law,” even as it also states that “men and women with deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should be “accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” Francis’s actions have been consistent with this teaching, on the one hand opposing any change in Catholic doctrine on homosexuality, but on the other according gay people—for instance, Mo Rocca—some basic respect.

Many of Francis’s pronouncements are opaque, but it is hard not to see what he meant when, in his speech to Congress last week, he worried that “fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family.” Sure, there are other issues that concern Catholics about “the very basis of marriage,” like pre- and extra-marital sex and divorce, but same-sex marriage is unquestionably part of that equation, too.

Francis also made pointed comments about religious freedom, the heart of the claim that Davis should be permitted to deny same-sex couples marriage licenses. He paid an unexpected visit to the Little Sisters of the Poor, the order of nuns that has engaged in protracted litigation with the Obama administration over whether signing a form exempting the group from providing contraception coverage violates their religious liberty. Francis also praised the American bishops, who have planted their feet firmly in the culture wars with campaigns to oppose LGBT and reproductive rights in the guise of religious freedom, for “remind[ing] us all. . . to be vigilant. . . to preserve and defend [religious liberty] from everything that would threaten and compromise it.”

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/liberals-shocked-saddened-that-pope-francis-meets-with-kim-davis



WHAT? Catholic doctrine and teachings are homophobic, misogynistic, and bigoted? REALLY? Wow, that's news!

Does that make all Catholics homophobic, misogynistic bigots? Hardly. But it should make one question why those Catholics who claim to be liberals continue to give time, money, and support to this homophobic, misogynistic, and bigoted organization. Maybe they themselves could answer that question for us. Just don't hold your breath.

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Shocked Liberals Discover Pope Is Actually...Catholic! (Original post)
cleanhippie Oct 2015 OP
rug Oct 2015 #1
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #2
rug Oct 2015 #4
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #7
rug Oct 2015 #8
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #10
rug Oct 2015 #12
Lordquinton Oct 2015 #15
rug Oct 2015 #18
Lordquinton Oct 2015 #19
rug Oct 2015 #20
Yorktown Oct 2015 #21
Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #5
rug Oct 2015 #9
Lordquinton Oct 2015 #16
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #11
snooper2 Oct 2015 #14
gcomeau Oct 2015 #3
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #6
mr blur Oct 2015 #13
Lordquinton Oct 2015 #17
struggle4progress Oct 2015 #22
deutsey Oct 2015 #23

Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:39 AM

1. So, cleanhippie, how many Catholics do you say are homophobic, misogynistic bigots?

 

Maybe you yourself could answer that question for us.

Shall I hold my breath?

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:43 AM

2. Are those that support homophobic, misogynistic and bigoted people and organizations

bigots?


Maybe you yourself could answer that question for us.

Shall I hold my breath?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:58 AM

4. Is that an answer? You say not all are. So answer it: how many are?

 

Or are you about to descend into your usual "you first" crap?

I know what your answer will be. Are you afraid to announce it?

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Response to rug (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:05 PM

7. Happy to do just that for you.

But I need you to tell me if people that support homophobic, misogynistic and bigoted people and organizations are bigots or not.

But you won't do that, will you? Are you afraid to announce it?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:12 PM

8. That assumes a given organization is homophobic.

 

Since you assume the RCC is homophobic and misogynist, you therefore conclude that every, as in all, active Catholics are complicit in RCC bigotry and, perforce, are bigots.

So your answer is 100%.

amirite?

Don't be afraid to say so. It's important to do things that make you happy.

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Response to rug (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:18 PM

10. Seems like you've already created thge answer you want, regardless of what I say.

Your bias is showing, and it's not pretty.


You have a nice day. I'm done with you.




Go on, feed your last-word compulsion. You know you have to. It will eat you up all day long if you don't.

Go on, show everyone reading your amount of self-control.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:21 PM

12. Well, then, simply state it in your own words.

 

I know you won't. Hence your attempt at escape with dignity. "I'm done with you."



You have a nice day, too.

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Response to rug (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 02:31 PM

15. Why are you terrified of answering any question?

Why is it Rug? Why do you respond to people's questions with vicious attacks?

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 03:22 PM

18. "terrified"?

 



BTW, the vote on the alert you made on my response to you in the other thread was 6-1 to keep it at 2:43 a.m.

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Response to rug (Reply #18)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:29 PM

19. Yea, terrified, prove me wrong

What are you hiding?

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 07:07 PM

20. Your sophomoricr remarks prove it.

 

Do you think this is fifth grade or DU?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:51 PM

21. Anyway the question is not about a %, but about doctrine.

 

Just like Islam where a solid X% muslims are normal decent people, despite a violent doctrine.

In the same way, Y% of Catholics are not homophobic, despite a twisted RCC doctrine.

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:00 PM

5. The religion officially teaches LGBT are disordered. It is prefectly fair to assume that people who

 

very actively proclaim a religion as their own actually believe that religion. If you expect people to assume you are not following your own faith, that's a very odd expectation. 'Well yes I tell people I'm an Orthodox Jew but why the fuck would they think I avoid eating pork? Are the bigots?'

Think about it. If a person says they are an atheist, do you not assume that they are? Why then should anyone assume that a member of any faith does not actually follow it, believe it or endorse it?

It makes no sense 'This is my faith but how dare you think I practice it'. Cake and eat it too.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:18 PM

9. There is a distinction.

 

Its Cathechism does state that non-heterosexual orientation is a disorder. As did the DSM around the time the Catechism was being written.

It does not say that LGBT people are disordered, any more than any straight person engaging in sex (solo or otherwise) outside of marriage is considered to be engaging in moral disorder.

Calling a sexual orientation a disorder is offensive. As offensive now by the RCC as it was when it was the consensus of psychiatric boards.

But it never has condemned the people it considers to be engaging in sin.

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Response to rug (Reply #9)


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:20 PM

11. Looks like you're getting a demonstration of cognitive-dissonance theology.

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:57 PM

14. I'd probably put it at around 60-65%

 

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:55 AM

3. Particularly love this part:

 

The catechism of the Catholic Church declares “homosexual acts” to be “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to natural law,” even as it also states that “men and women with deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should be “accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” Francis’s actions have been consistent with this teaching, on the one hand opposing any change in Catholic doctrine on homosexuality, but on the other according gay people—for instance, Mo Rocca—some basic respect.


Translation: We'll deny you your human rights, but we'll smile nicely at you while we do it! Respect!

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Response to gcomeau (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:02 PM

6. And they get away with that because of the cover provided by sympathetic members.

The hand-waving, the deflections, the willful ignorance to the actual problems caused by such awful doctrine...

One need not look far to find examples of such behavior. Oh, look, there's one right up there!

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:12 PM

13. Well, they've always managed to avoid answering it before.

 

Cognitive Dissonance, I guess. How else to explain it?

It makes them angry!

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Response to mr blur (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 02:42 PM

17. Why does that look so familliar?

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Oct 7, 2015, 02:03 AM

22. Gonna go out onna limb here and guess lotsa folk knew th'Pope wuz Catholic

People who live in the real world often work with others, who don't completely share their views, by finding whatever common ground they can

Of course, this approach irritates the ideologues and the thought police, who cannot ever imagine how anyone could disagree with them

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 8, 2015, 10:58 AM

23. +1

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