A young man is skinned alive. A sign of new Taliban brutality?

[rug]

A member of a breakaway faction of the Taliban guards a gathering in the Shindand district of Herat province in Afghanistan on May 27, 2016. (Allauddin Khan/AP)

By Tim Craig June 11 at 5:00 AM

KABUL — In a remote area of Afghanistan, where thousands of years of hardscrabble tribal culture increasingly mixes with a resurgent Taliban militancy, this is how Fazl Ahmad allegedly died.

Local officials in Ghor province said one of Ahmad’s distant relatives was suspected of killing a former Taliban commander. In December, militants dragged Ahmad from his house and cut out his eyes in retaliation.

Ahmad was still alive and screaming when the attackers began carving the skin off his chest, leaving his heart exposed. Then they threw the 21-year old laborer off a 10-story cliff, officials said.

“They skinned him alive,” said Ruqiya Naeel, a member of parliament from the area.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-young-man-was-skinned-alive-in-afghanistan-a-sign-of-new-taliban-brutality/2016/06/10/6b7592fa-2e8a-11e6-b9d5-3c3063f8332c_story.html

Will someone be kind enough to point out the religious motive for this killing?

[demosincebirth]

1. animals don't need a motive

[840high]

4. Animals don't do this.

[FarPoint]

2. Ramsey Bolton....

Has he joined the Taliban?


Sorry, I'm a GOT fan...( Game of Thrones).

in reality, this horrible crime against humanity must be stopped. What is wrong with them???

[SCantiGOP]

3. The religious motive?

Inspiration from the Old Testament? Angry God was always smiting people and giving them boils and having bears tear them apart, often for rather capricious reasons.

I guess they figure : if it's good enough for the Creator, it's good enough for me (that old time religion.....)

[rug]

5. There isn't one for this.

It's pure terror to maintain control.

Local officials in Ghor province said one of Ahmad’s distant relatives was suspected of killing a former Taliban commander.

[whatthehey]

51. Sure, and the control they seek is religious - a theocracy

Not every act needs a distinct scriptural motivation, but the organization seeks to impose religious control on Afghanistan. That they impose harsh punishments for crimes secular and religious has never been in dispute, but I hadn't thought anyone disputed the religious nature of the group itself and their desire for a uniformly fundamentalist regime either. Are they maybe just a bunch of apatheistic secular chaps now?

[rug]

52. This particular group, yes.

But this killing was about the cracy.

[braddy]

6. Are you claiming the Jews and Torah/Old Testament are responsible for this act?

[SCantiGOP]

7. I was using the OT

as a template for organized religion. It does serve as the basis for three major world religions. The question posed in the OP was how this act was (perversely) tied to religion.
Quite a leap to conclusion you tried there.

[braddy]

8. Islam was created by Mohammed, it is not part of the Jews and the Bible.

Why not focus on this man's horrible death, the Taliban, and their religious war of Islam.

[SCantiGOP]

9. You need to study up a bit on religious history

But we don't need to kick this around anymore. See ya.

[braddy]

10. Islam was solely created by Mohammed, and I hope this doesn't become yet another cruel method of

death by the Taliban.

[SCantiGOP]

11. Quit embarrassing yourself

Muhammad traced his lineage back to Joseph - you know, the guy in the Old Testament?
Just Google "Joseph in Koran." OK?

[braddy]

12. All Mohammed, all his creation, and you seem to have zero interest in this thread, the Jews had

nothing to do with what the Taliban did.

[Brettongarcia]

53. Islam comes from the Old Testament, etc.

With Judaism, Islam is known as an Abrahamic religion. If you read the Koran, it includes countless references to figures from the Old Testament, and Judaism. (And for that matter, it acknowledges Jesus, as at least a great prophet, if not as son of God.)

And the Old Testament God, who was also the God of the Jews, of course, was extremely violent.

[heaven05]

27. all religion

is a mind control SCAM.

[braddy]

40. If anything is universal to human consciousness, it is an awareness of God.

[bvf]

43. By "awareness of God (sic)"

I take you to mean, "susceptibilty to delusion, especially if instilled and reinforced from early childhood onward."

[braddy]

44. If that makes you feel better.

[bvf]

46. Feeling has nothing to do with it on this end,

Last edited Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)

but I understand your need to project.

[cleanhippie]

47. Actually, we are predisposed to belief, not "God".

[heaven05]

49. I said nothing about God

I said organized religion is a scam. Our consciousness is something completely different from the holy edicts written by men with an agenda who were supposedly led by some all knowing creator of all we can rationally perceive. Religion is a mind control scam penned by men with an agenda, with help from whatever PTB on what to write to keep the people fearing and drugged with religious threats and promises. The King James version of the bible is a perfect example.

And on a current note, how many thousands of people sat in church yesterday in some fundamentalist church pew giving amens to the preacher when he said those people in Florida who were killed reaped what they had sown and deserved to die. I've been there and I know it is true. Fuck religion.

[Brettongarcia]

54. God? Not gods plural?

And intelligence is not a defining universal?

[progree]

13. They used to do this to the Russian invaders in the 1980s n/t

[rug]

23. "Horrific violence is nothing new in Afghanistan."

Ninth paragraph of the article.

[Brettongarcia]

55. Neither is Islam New there

[rug]

56. The violence predates Islam by centuries.

[Brettongarcia]

58. Millennia, actually

The apes were violent.

But? These days, the most backward exhibitions of the old violence, are increasingly associated with particularly, people holding on to the Old ways. In part due to religion. Which often tells us that the old ways, the Old Testament ways, are sacred. And can't be changed.

[rug]

62. Well, neither the Bible nor the Quran have much to say about lanthanum, cerium or neodymium.

http://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html

Or pipeline routes.

[SCantiGOP]

14. This is not directed at anyone in this thread

But a Bill Murray quote I saw recently seems somehow appropriate:

It is hard to win an argument against a smart person; it is impossible to win an argument against a stupid person.

[rug]

20. That quote should be in the SoP.

[applegrove]

15. A little boy, who became famous for wearing a plastic bag as a soccer

uniform while he played soccer in Afghanistan, had to move with his family to Pakistan to escape threats from the Taliban for playing soccer. So the Taliban it seems is against the whole scope of human behaviour, from being distantly related to their enemies to soccer playing 7 year olds. That's pretty all consuming.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Maybe you should self-delete your OP, if you don't think this had a religious motive

Since you decided to post it in this group, it's your responsibility to explain why it's religious. We already had an LBN thread on this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141485109 .

Carving out someone's eyes, skinning them and throwing them off a cliff doesn't sound like a known religious torture to me. Stoning for adultery, however, has a recognised religious connection.

[rug]

17. It's necessary to educate those who think religion is behind every horror..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218230726

Especially when terror and horror are committed by Islamic extremists.

Fortunately, no one has claimed that in this thread, to this point.

Bias and willful ignorance are intractable, amirite?

Nice try, muriel.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. No, of course you're not right.

That would be incredible.

You seems to be admitting you are trolling the group, then, but using it for a story that you don't think is about religion.

[rug]

19. If you're looking for trolling this group, look at the OP I linked to.

Along with the cartoon you posted (taken from another OP).

Not to mention the numerous stories posted about psychotic women killing their children because . . . . religion.

Hypocrisy does not become you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. You post a story you think is not about religion in the Religion group

You are wasting people's time.

[rug]

22. I understand the discomfit opposing, yet accurate, viewpoints, causes you.

Tough shit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. Again, you're saying you are trolling the group

By posting something to 'discomfort' people reading the group, rather than posting about religion. 'Tough shit' confirms you're looking to annoy them.

[rug]

25. Let's be clear, muriel. You are saying that.

I am saying that this group is routinely trolled by antireligious bigots who have not the slightest interest in an intellectually honest discussion and critique of religion.

Please don't try to put your words in my mouth. Or at least step back when I spit them back out.

Oh, the "tough shit" was entirely for you.

(P.S. The word is "discomfit".)

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. You are trolling the Relgion group with articles you say aren't about religion

and you admit you do it to piss people off. Plenty of people here are interested in intellectually honest discussion and critique of religion; we just never expect to get it from you. You're the one who insults DUers by calling them 'bigots'.

'Discomfort' is a word too.

[cleanhippie]

28. No, it's never rug, it's always someone else. He is perfect in every way.

[rug]

30. Did you have something to say to me directly, cleanhippie?

You'll be a better person for it.

[rug]

29. Like psychotic mothers killing children?

Terrorists blowing people up?

Pedophiles abusing children?

Is this what you consider to be the essence of religion?

While religion may be a factor in any of these, the discussion does not stop there.

Bigots, however, always remain there because in their view nothing good comes from religion and religion is the source of all evil.

If you don't like being corrected on that and if it pisses you off, have the honesty to admit it pisses you off and try not to invoke imagined hordes.

As to insulting DUers by calling them bigots, do a word count on how many times DUers who express religious belief are called misogynists, homophobes, apologists, enablers, deluded, etc. whenever your groupthink is questioned. Then get off your self-righteous high horse.

I told you once already not to put words in my mouth. Have the integrity to own your own words.

And discomfort is your word. My word is discomfit.

If you want more of my words I'm happy to oblige.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. Again, you are just enjoying calling DUer's 'bigots'

It's your purpose here: to insult DUers if they don't genuflect to religion. Other people post articles connected to religion, and you complain that they are insulting religion. You post an article about a revenge killing by the Taliban on an opponent, and think it's up to other people to justify your decision to post it in this group.

You've corrected me on nothing. I've pointed out you are trolling, and you're whining in response. It's very rare for DUers to call other DUers misogynists or homophobes, unless in direct reply to something that looks like that. You however, routinely call DUers bigots, just when you feel like it. And you include me in this unjustified group insult by saying "your groupthink". No, I'm not a bigot, but you are a rude waste of space for saying so.

These insults are your hobby. You have no 'integrity' on this subject.

[rug]

32. Again, you try to put words in my mouth.

Now let's see if you can find actual words of mine that support this:

It's your purpose here: to insult DUers if they don't genuflect to religion.

As to this:

It's very rare for DUers to call other DUers misogynists or homophobes, unless in direct reply to something that looks like that.

To a bigot, any comment on the RCC that is not damning is "something that looks like that."

OTOH, I call something bigotry when it is a broadbrush, indiscriminating, and usually stupid (with a cartoon attached) attack on a group. In here those groups are generally religious and specifically Catholic.

The fact that those observations sting you do not make them inaccurate. They should make you pause before invoking hypocrisy.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. You insulted DUers by calling them 'bigots' in #25 and #29

There, that was easy, wasn't it?

Are you a person who thinks a cartoon is somehow an invalid form of communication? Why would that have something to do with 'bigotry'?

I object to you calling me a 'bigot'. No, that doesn't mean I should 'pause' at all; it's perfectly normal to object to being called a bigot. You're insulting me, for no reason other that that you enjoy it.

[rug]

34. Which DUers? The ones that don't routinely post bigotry or the ones in here who do?

I really don't care what you object to. It really has little to do with you.

What I object to is the routine broadbrushing of entire groups. Something you apparently condone.

Here's a fresh charmer for you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7902699

And another:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1485435

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. What you should do, rug, is alert on the posts you think are bigoted

and not just enjoy yourself by calling DUers bigots to give yourself a little thrill of self-righteousness. You frequently broadbrush an entire group - DUers who disagree with you about religion. You call be a bigot, without justification, when you say "your" about a group that you call bigoted.

You are rude, because you like being rude. It's your vice.

[rug]

36. How do you vote on those two posts?

[Rob H.]

37. *discomfiture nt

[rug]

38. Technically correct as it is a verb.

But the suffix is a matter of style.

[Rob H.]

39. What? No, it isn't

Discomfiture, the noun, is correct in this case. You used discomfit, the verb, instead.

[rug]

41. It's a nominalization.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/those-irritating-verbs-as-nouns/

Excuse me if I step out of a grammar debate in the middle of a thread about a man who had his eyes cut out after which he was skinned alive.

[mr blur]

42. You are in fact completely wrong.

One is a noun, one a verb.

[rug]

45. As used, it's a nominalization. Hence, a noun.

http://www.cgu.edu/PDFFiles/Writing%20Center/Writing%20Center%20Resources/Nominalizations.pdf

You can use your next break to study the ongoing development of the English language.

[Goblinmonger]

48. Derp

Everything from you that follows the above response is just more derp showing you also don't know what nominalization is.

If your response to me is anything other than "wow, I messed that one up," expect me to only point out how strong the derp is with you.

[rug]

50. Do you have a comment on the man skinned alive or is your whole purpose here to say "Derp"?

[Goblinmonger]

57. Deflective Derp

Right now, I am particularly discussing your misuse of a word and subsequent bastardization of language in an attempt to pretend you were correct.

If I wish to comment on the other item, I will.

[rug]

60. Deflection? You want to discuss grammar instead of a man who had his eyes cut out.

Why don't you pop into an Orlando thread and discuss gerunds?

Now, if your real interest is in getting into a personal pissing match with me, let me know.

[Warren Stupidity]

67. I think we are at Def Derp 2 now.

On the derp color code chart that is "orange".

[rug]

68. You are now.

[LiberalAndProud]

59. I've been resisting the urge to ask the question, but what is your point?`

Will you post every atrocity having no evident religious motive here in this forum, thinking that you're proving that because this terrible act may not have been committed out of religious conviction that none are? Because, truly, that is some very weak sauce.

Additionally, extreme brutality happens to be countenanced and condoned by this religion, in particular, so, no, I don't hold the religion blameless.

[rug]

61. In that case, I'll resist the urge to answer.

I may when someone races in here to post the latest atrocity triumphantly claiming, "See what religion does?"

Like a cat with a dead rodent seeking praise.

[LiberalAndProud]

63. My point stands.

Sometimes people commit senseless, horrible acts without religion. Religious conviction, though, often provides motivation and, as we see in some some Christian responses to the Orlando tragedy, justification.

This doesn't change that. It's twisted to think that it does.

[rug]

64. It's way more than sometimes. Prisons are not filled with zealots.

[LiberalAndProud]

65. A lot of times then.

Does not absolve religion of bigoted, hateful, harmful teachings. Not at all.

[rug]

66. Nothing absolves anything of bigoted hate.

There's plenty to go around, with or without religion.