Religion
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It is said that the christian god is all powerful, all knowing, created everything and perfect
I was wondering how a perfect being could create anything imperfect.
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)Of course He knew that Lucifer and Adam/Eve would rebel. Hard to get your head around it (why create man knowing that most will burn in eternal fire for eternity).
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)Theodicy (/?iːˈɒdɪsi/), in its most common form, attempts to answer the question why a good God permits the manifestation of evil. Theodicy addresses the evidential problem of evil by attempting to make the existence of an All-knowing, All-powerful and All-good or omnibenevolent God consistent with the existence of evil or suffering in the world.[1] Unlike a defence, which tries to demonstrate that God's existence is logically possible in the light of evil, a theodicy attempts to provide a framework wherein God's existence is also plausible.[2] The German mathematician and philosopher Gottfried Leibniz coined the term "theodicy" in 1710 in his work Théodicée, though various responses to the problem of evil had been previously proposed. The British philosopher John Hick traced the history of moral theodicy in his 1966 work, Evil and the God of Love, identifying three major traditions:
1. the Plotinian theodicy, named after Plotinus
2. the Augustinian theodicy, which Hick based on the writings of Augustine of Hippo
3. the Irenaean theodicy, which Hick developed, based on the thinking of St. Irenaeus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)3catwoman3
(23,985 posts)...first saw that word -
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Fixed it for ya.
cilla4progress
(24,731 posts)Had too much time on their hands!
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)to justify God's ways to man.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Perfection is sterile and stagnant. Make yourself a perfect crystal of silicon, without flaw of any kind, and what do you have? A pretty chunk of an inert mineral. Add some impurities though, and the possibilities are endless.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)gods as an explanation. This nonsense should just be put in the shelf with the rest of the myths and fairy tales.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Where did the universe come from??
What is the universe expanding into??
One should never quit asking until all the questions are answered
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It is what it is, regardless of what I would prefer that it be.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)There isn't some surrounding "void". That is a holdover concept from ancient cosmology.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Humans can't help but try to apply their understanding of the universe to the conditions "before" or "outside" the universe. But of course those very notions are meaningless, since time and space are themselves defined by the universe itself.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Science may, but religion never will.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)that is why they are not happy with questions
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)and rather than take it as a sign the whole thing is phooey, they set about coming up with excuses as to why their ALL-POWERFUL god was somehow "forced" to do something one way.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Without free will there can be no choice. The Creator chose to create and gave sentient beings the same freedom of choice.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If man is made in the image of the Creator, image generally interpreted to mean possessing reasoning power, man must be free to make choices.
And that reasoning power can sometimes lead people to disbelieve in the existence of a Creator.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)You really should consider it.
If the answer is yes, then God obviously can reveal his existence to people. If the answer is no, then free will isn't all that important to human happiness, and its existence is therefore arbitrary.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)it would be reasonable to assume that that same person/intelligence/entity would continue to have that same characteristic in the afterlife.
And the Creator always has the option of revelation. Whether or not the revelation is recognized and/or understood is another matter.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)of free will, that there is then also suffering in heaven?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But free will does not imply anything about choices that are made.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That's the constant refrain that apologists like yourself give when asked why there is suffering in the world. Because of free will. People have to be free to choose whatever they want to do, including possibly hurting someone else.
You claim there is free will in heaven. Yet I can only assume there cannot be suffering in heaven. So is free will limited in heaven?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But my feeling is that the answer will be "yes".
Again, you will have to wait for that answer until you get there.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Doesn't sound like heaven then. Perhaps you've got your destinations mixed up?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But my feeling is that the answer will be "yes".
Again, you will have to wait for that answer until you get there.
Now if I answered that "my feeling is that the answer will be "yes", how could anyone interpret that as a negative answer?
PS.
I updated my signature line. Thanks for the inspiration.
Guillaume
trotsky
(49,533 posts)If you answer "yes," then that means you think free will is limited in heaven. You answered yes. Thus you think free will is limited in heaven.
I'm a little scared by your sig line. Usually people who claim to know what god thinks are the most dangerous ones of all.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And my signature line is a tongue in cheek response to yours.
And I believe, but cannot prove, that free will exists everywhere that the Creator exists.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You have made repeated insinuations that my comprehension skills are lacking. So clearly that is the problem - when you get trapped by an answer you gave, you just imply that I'm dumb, and drop it. Very Christian of you.
And I believe, but cannot prove, that free will exists everywhere that the Creator exists.
Then why did you so confidently reply with "free will" to the question in the OP?
That you think you can speak for a god though, is very disturbing. Although not surprising given your history.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Every time this topic comes up, the theists present free will like it's some kind of gift. As if it makes all the horrible things humanity endures somehow worth it.
One million children die of malnurishment every year, but fuck it, I get to pick whether I want my iPhone in gold or space gray.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And you are free to do so, but to what point?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Leontius
(2,270 posts)instead of helping save those children from dying.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I'm really pleased you could drop by and be a part of this conversation. If you're not too busy purposefully misrepresenting hyperbole as literal fact, maybe you could explain why free will is worth millions of children dying from inadequate access to food.
I might not be able save a million kids a year, but my line of work necessarily entails that I help save at least a few. Which is more than can be said for your dear and fluffy lord. And I'm guessing probably you, too.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That's gotta be good for feeding at least a dozen kids. I'm sure Jesus is proud.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)It still does not answer the question of the use of free will or choice if you prefer that with or without God those choices are ours to make and we, all of us together, have the power and resources to save those children and yet we don't. Whose fault is that? Saying why doesn't God do it is just not good enough to excuse our lack of doing so especially if there is no God, as I believe you claim, to pass the blame to.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The trouble is I'm not trying to decipher who is actually responsible for feeding kids, or who we should blame when shit goes south. We can talk about that in another locale, and chances are we'd be in complete agreement.
edhopper
(33,579 posts)without sin.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As in a non-perfect entity. Does your statement still apply?
edhopper
(33,579 posts)but the idea of original sin, ie, people have sex, is abhorant.
I reject the concept of sin, as most Christians follow.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Not about sex.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)To raise your children to think they were born sick and are commanded by God to be well.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)it's all really about sex, no matter how many pretty words they want to sling around.
but I'll play, since Adam an Eve is a mythological story and has no resemblance with how humans came to be, what was the actual sin that iall are born with?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Think of the earth giving life as substitutes for the names and the hidden meaning is apparent.
The Bible is clear on what was meant by the fall.
edhopper
(33,579 posts)what sin is all mankind guilty of, one we are born with. and it must be something applicable to bronze age nomads?
what is the Bible so clear about?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Isn't it interesting how the same people who bash fundamentalist Christians for being so certain what their bible says are so quick to turn around and make a statement like "The bible is clear..." when it comes to supporting their beliefs?
There's a word for that, isn't there?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)edhopper
(33,579 posts)a religious concept having to do with God. I don't go along. with the concept.
what is sin to you?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)edhopper
(33,579 posts)that sin is violating God's law or will, it is almost never used without a religious connotation. And I can't see why it would be on this forum.
discussing original sin without religion is pretty meaningless.
I still wonder what the Bible is so clear about original sin, you haven't answered that one.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)http://www.theopedia.com/original-sin
Is this clear?
edhopper
(33,579 posts)so it might be sex, or just man's imperfect nature, or might not exist at all.
But the Bible is very clear about it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Witness the radically different interpretations of the Second Amendment, which was not written 5800 years ago. Does this surprise you?
edhopper
(33,579 posts)"Think of the earth giving life as substitutes for the names and the hidden meaning is apparent.
The Bible is clear on what was meant by the fall."
so it can be interpreted in many ways but is also clear and the meaning apparent.
of course if you see the Bible, not as the word of God, but the musings of men with limited knowledge, it starts making sense.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)edhopper
(33,579 posts)but I still don't understand what you meant about the meaning of the fall being apparent and clear in the Bible?
can't you just give a declarative statement about that?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)There are, or can be, many meanings/interpretations of many passages in the Bible. To the literalists there is no room for interpretation. I am not a Biblical literalist.
So when I said that the meaning is apparent and clear I should have added to each individual believer to my statement. My lack of clarity. No pun intended but you are free to interpret it that way if you wish.
edhopper
(33,579 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You can certainly try and prove it to be true, but first you'd need to prove there is a "creator", and that it's the one you believe in.
Good luck with that.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)to most life as we know it.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)We are the products of our genetics and environment, neither of which we have any choice at birth. After that, we think and act based on how our brains have developed in our environment. We don't design our own brains, so our conscious selves don't ultimately control our actions and thoughts. If you believe in a god, then this god is responsible for who we are.
Free will is an illusion. We don't understand how our brains work or how they come to their conclusions. Our heads are black boxes.
We experience inputs into our brains and we experience outputs from our brains. What our brains actually do, we can't know. We experience feelings associated with our thoughts and action. This gives us the illusion that our conscious selves actually made the decision. But our feelings only drive our thoughts and actions by forcing our (outside of conscious) brains to act.
Even when you use sequential logic, ultimately your thoughts come out of your black box.
There is no free will. That is just an excuse for this imaginary god for not being able to see the future and the flaws in creation. God says, the buck don't stop here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)that same argument could be interpreted to mean that we have no control.
Thus if I kill someone it is not my fault?
So anything that a human does should be accepted?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)and one of many reasons that hell is so wrong. But punishment by imprisonment is needed to protect the public and to prevent future crimes.
Those thoughts and motivations that caused you to write what you wrote, where did they come from?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Plus I have no control over my fingers so I cannot stop typing lak=====jbfieorugnid44cnaodjcnadj..................
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)We experience feelings and thoughts, with our feelings feeding back to our brains to drive our thoughts and actions. Our brains do this, but our conscious brains have no free will. Most of what happens in our brains happens outside our consciousness.
rug
(82,333 posts)That's as sound a position as astrology. Just substitute biochemistry for astronomy.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Like all thought processes, most of this happens outside of consciousness. If different thoughts (plans) associated with more powerful feelings don't happened between your planning and tomorrow, you will actually go through with your plans.
Every moment of consciousness your conscious brain is a slave to your (good and bad) feeings, and without feelings, you would be in a coma-like state.
We have no way of knowing what goes on in here. We have feelings and thoughts, and stuff happens.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)You do not control most of what your body does, but this is irrelevant to the concept of free will. A far better explanation than I could do is here:
There is no need to insist that free will is some kind of magical violation of causality. Free will is just another kind of cause. The causal process by which a person decides whether to marry is simply different from the processes that cause balls to roll downhill, ice to melt in the hot sun, a magnet to attract nails, or a stock price to rise and fall.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/09/free_will_debate_what_does_free_will_mean_and_how_did_it_evolve.html
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Definitions of free will that are relevant to religious discussions have to require that our thoughts and actions come from our conscious brains, since it is our conscious brains that would experience any rewards and punishments, such as heaven or hell.
(This is all my opinion, that I haven't seen written by anyone else before) Our consciousness does play a critical role, but our consciousness isn't what makes decisions. I deny that decisions in logical reasoning ultimately come from consciousness. Consciousness is what experiences pain, pleasure, emotions, and other much more subtle feelings (along with thoughts and senses), without (consciousness) which you can have no drive. Drive is what forces us to think and do, and the strength of our feelings determine what we learn.
Every waking moment we are completely driven by our feelings, most of them very subtle. Our feelings force our brains to work (that's why we are conscious), but our non-conscious brains do the actual thinking. Thinking has to be automatic in the non-conscious brain since we have no way of knowing how our brains actually work and conscious free-will is fundamentally impossible.
I know I'm repeating myself, but one has to explain in detail how our brains actually work, rather than stating it as a matter of faith that we have free will.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)their entire theological house of cards is built on it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)this is all speculation. Motivation is difficult to understand and explain.
But if you are willing to deny that volition exists, all acts are random and the actor bears no responsibility for actions. Explain then how this concept requires society to abandon any attempt at social rules.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Our brains have evolved to best allow us to pass on our genes. A brain that acts randomly could never survive, and those genes won't get passed on. Any of us that don't properly follow social rules will not be successful. People around him/her will react poorly to improper behavior.
Our brains are programmed, through learning and instinct, to give us positive and negative feedback (feelings) based on our thoughts and actions. Our feelings do give us a stake in our own existence (motivation) which automatically forces our brains to work in our own benefit. Our consciousness doesn't do the actually decision making, but it certainly plays an important role.
Science certainly has difficulty explaining consciousness, but if we had free will this wouldn't be the case. We would understand where our thoughts come from and how we reach our decisions.
The reason we can't explain how we reach our decisions is due to the fact that our consciousness does far less than we think.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)First:
Social rules are not "hardwired" into the brain. They are social constructs. And these social constructs are needed if humans are to survive communally.
Second:
The decision to eat potatoes or carrots is deliberately made. And the decision, being deliberately made, involves conscious behavior because it is not automatic behavior like breathing or digestion.
Third:
Free will means the ability to choose freely, without coercion. If you freely choose to eat potatoes you are exercising your free will. True, the choice is a minor one, but that does not make it any less a freely made choice.
My simplified interpretation of your idea is that if any part of our decision making is automatic, rather than specifically thought out, that nullifies the concept of free will.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)How do you know this for certain?
Would the process look (or feel) any different if the choice was being made for you, and you were simply rationalizing it as your choice?
Be specific in your answer please.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)That type of argument is fruitless.
If you decide to go to the movies, did you really decide, or did the aliens aim a mind control ray at your head?
And that is ultimately where this train is going.
Perhaps the Creator inspired you to write this in an attempt to test my faith.
Or perhaps what I see as the universe is merely a mental construct.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Support it. Go ahead.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)How do they pop into your conscious brain? You claim you have free will, so you have to know where your thoughts come from.
The decision to eat potatoes or carrots originates with a desire, perhaps originating with hunger. This desire is imposed on your consciousness. The desire is a motivational force which automatically makes your brain prioritizes your hunger.
Our brains are automatic brain-storming machines. So in our every waking moment stuff flows through our brains. Consciousness plays a part. In my opinion, along with being a motivational force, the desires in consciousness force our complicated brains to act as one. As thoughts pass through our conscious brains, our consciousness automatically react to these thoughts with feelings (usually subtle, sometimes not). The force of feelings automatically keeps our thoughts on track, and our brains working on one particular goal of the moment. Hunger is usually a more powerful feeling which pushes our brains in a particular direction. In the big picture, this process isn't deliberate. It's automatic. You can't stop it.
Social rules are learned. They only exist in our heads.
In every step of the way thoughts automatically pop in our heads. For difficult problems not dealt with before, we can break up our thoughts into understandable and previously learned steps. Everything is still ultimately imposed on our conscious minds.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)so presumably you can assume there's a human on this side.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But will artificial intelligence advance to that level, and if it does, will it possess sentience?
If AI does advance to that point, would it have enforceable rights?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)will automatically emerge in computers if we make them complicated enough. Or at least consciousness in AI is reasonably possible.
Some think the inability to explain the role of consciousness in our brains means that consciousness has no role. They think consciousness will just appear if you make an AI computer complicated enough.
I think the fact that we experience pain and pleasure and the profound effect they have on our behavior certainly shows that consciousness has an important role.
I am skeptical of the ability to ever make a conscious computer. We don't understand how our own brains make consciousness and we will never truly understand. If man ever makes one, it would have to be artificially evolved.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)does that imply that it is a design feature of that brain. Meaning that when a brain reaches a certain level of complexity consciousness/sentience appears?
In my faith-based view, sentience is the divine spark, the soul. Also unprovable.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)I meant to also write that I don't think that consciousness just appears with a sufficiently complex brain, as some believe, since I think that consciousness has an important role. Our brains evolved consciousness to serve this important role.
The fact that damage to our brains causes our consciousness to diminish or die, strongly indicates that our consciousness is a process of the physical brain.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)the physical part of the brain for the hardware, with sentience/consciousness being the software. To make an analogy.
But even a damaged brain still has sentience, with the amount depending on the severity of the damage.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)And yes it does raise interesting question about our penal system. Probably makes the case for ditching retributive punishment entirely.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)from it. You can't say he was surprised. That fucked things up for everybody. Adam had no free will.
--imm
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)He may be incompetent, but he knows everything that has happened, and that will happen. We think we have choices, but it's all been determined.
--imm
edhopper
(33,579 posts)not answered for 2000 years and counting
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guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And the specifics of what comprises evil have varied in every society, which might lead one to feel that good/evil are human constructs that have no place in the Creator's thinking.
edhopper
(33,579 posts)a thinking creator, not in evidence.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Does free will create famine and landslides and random genetic deformities and volcanoes and floods and childhood cancer and earthquakes and type 1 diabetes and tsunamis and SIDS and torandos and the plague?
Why didn't an omnipotent omnibenevolent creator make the central nervous system register pain only until you take your hand out of the flame? Why did he design teeth for the pinnacle of his creation, his own image no less, which didn't normally last their natural lifespan until the last few decades, by human ingenuity, when he gave other creatures the ability to keep regrowing them?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)that the Creator constantly updates and guides.
Why would you assume that?
Why would you assume that what you feel is logical would also be logical for the Creator?
And all of these things you cataloged in your first paragraph are not evil, they are simply things that happen in this universe. And probably in ever universe.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Because an entity which even designed a world containing those things and millions more like them is certainly not omniscient AND omnipotent AND omnibenevolent because those things exist, QED. If you retreat into ineffability as per usual, then we are left with a creator about which nothing meaningful can be said.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)one who created all that humans recognize as existence, the capabilities of that creator would of necessity be far beyond our own. So why would any human feel that they had the capability to understand the motivation of that creator?
I dunno, you certainly don't seem to have any reservations about doing so, even going so far as to pretend to quote it in order to insult a scientist you've misrepresented. You seem to value humility and compassion, but your actions certainly don't match.
True Dough
(17,304 posts)Who then made his way into the kitchen and cooked some tasty fish and drank an obscene amount of wine.
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)addressing this question.
bulloney
(4,113 posts)to his own species when he did with all of the other animals.
As I've gotten older, I increasingly believe the Old Testament is a collection of fairy tales that originated from a bunch of nomad men sitting around the campfire at night and telling bullshit stories to each other. These stories have a common thread in that women are subordinate to men because, according to these campfire bullshitters, woman had to be created from a part of a man (rib).
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If we consider that, chromosomally speaking, women are XX and men are XY, and we consider that a Y can be seen as an X missing the lower part, perhaps the story of the missing rib can be seen as a biological explanation set in Bronze Era language. It would have been obvious that men and women do not have a different number of actual ribs, but if the story is examined as metaphor.............?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)most vertebrate animals(including humans).
Males are an adaptation to create sexual reproduction and selection pressures.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)He's on a crusade to prove that his creation story is true. Don't be so mean!
edhopper
(33,579 posts)how the Universe really works, God stopped talking to us.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)grubbs
(356 posts)We're here because we're here because we're here .,,,
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)the only thing we could mean, when we say 'the world is imperfect,' is 'we would change some things if we could'
And for as long as we have records, there seem to have been humans working hard at doing so, in various ways -- say, by making 'better' shoes or trying to cure particular diseases
Although many in this forum apparently dislike those answers (to questions about the world's 'imperfections') which reference 'free will,' such an answer, when properly understood, seems to me the only possible responsible answer: it redirects our attention from meaningless abstract gooble-de-gook back to the practical problem of choosing how to spend our time productively
There's no way to make sense of the question, 'How could a perfect being create anything imperfect?' There's no way to tell whether an 'answer' to the question is 'tight' or 'wrong' -- and there's nothing obvious that we could do with a 'right answer' to the question: the only thing one can do is suggest spending time and energy to improve some 'imperfection'
Thus, to 'How could a perfect being create anything imperfect?' one simply retorts 'So that you would be able to choose to make something better,' hoping enough people take the hint
And those who refuse to take the hint? Well, we all only a limited amount of time: why waste it in pointless arguments about the whatness-of-nothing?
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)What do you mean by "perfect" and "imperfect"?
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)imperfect would be with flaws
It is said that the god of the Bible is perfect the question was ......... could a perfect being create an imperfect being or thing
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)For example: The appendix on the colon. Certain herbivores need it for digesting plants. But in the human it just sits around unused. We only realize we have an appendix if it gets an inflammation.
Is the appendix a flaw?
We cannot know: If God created the human, and God has free will and a plan, then the appendix might be part of God's plan.
This is the basic problem with discovering God by his actions: No one knows what he meant by those actions.
For example: A hunter killing deer. Is he a bad person or is he preserving the deer-population by preventing over-population?
Trying to discover God by his works or by experiments or the like is a futile endavour from the very beginning: A human cannot learn more about God by using things like evidence or facts. It's philosophically impossible, because God has a free will (-> does not obey fixed rules) and is unique (-> you cannot use statistics to deduce some general behaviour of God).
God can neither be proven nor disproven by using things such as experiments, evidence, witnesses... Because God and the scientific method are based on incompatible philosophic assumptions.
Now, having discarded proving God by science, it's important to be aware of a dangerous double-speak when it comes to "faith":
"Faith" and "belief" have two radically different meanings, but some religious people jump between them as they please.
1. "Faith" and "belief" can mean guessing.
2. "Faith" and "belief" can mean the very specific cultural and religious doctrine of the person using that word. The doctrine itself. Not "faith"/"belief" as a mental state.
When a religious person scolds you for not believing, in 99.9% of the cases they are scolding you for not having the exactly same opinion as him. But they cover up this extremism by claiming to use the innocent 1st definition.
Oneironaut
(5,494 posts)It asks many questions of itself:
If God is PKG (all knowing, powerful, and good), then why are its creations imperfect?
If God purposely created imperfection, then is it a monster?
If God created the Devil, then is God an idiot? Why create something that will directly oppose you and corrupt your creations?
If God is not in 100% control of free will, then it is not PKG, and therefore not a God.
If God is in control of free will, then why is God less evil than the Devil, for he is also the architect of pure evil on earth. If God cannot control the Devil, then God is not PKG, and therefore is not a God.
If imperfection is in God's plan, and it wants us to suffer, then God is evil. No good being would torture its creations, even if its intentions are good. A PKG God would create perfect creations in the first place. Otherwise, a PKG being creating imperfect creations that are sometimes subjected to horrific torture is morally no different from the Devil.