Religion
Related: About this forumAtheism's Dark Side Aiding the Trump Agenda
BY STEPHEN LEDREW FEBRUARY 26, 2017
Sam Harris recently appeared in a one-on-one segment on Real Time With Bill Maher to discuss Donald Trumps immigration ban, which he criticized for being poorly executed and too sweeping, though he approves of the goal of keeping radicals out. Harris levied his familiar charge that the Left is an ally of Islamism because of its mindless commitment to multiculturalism and tolerance, which hes been repeating since his 2004 book The End of Faith launched his career as an anti-religious crusader. These views were the basis of his highly publicized dust-up with Ben Affleck on the show in 2014.
Its telling that the alt-Right (read: white nationalist) website Breitbart posted an approving summary of Harris comments from this Real Time appearance. Long before Trumps travel ban, Harris was arguing that America should ethnically profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim at airport security. Recent events should compel atheists to assess the impact of these views, proudly promoted by their exalted public representatives. I, like many other atheists who were optimistic about this movements prospects when it came alive about ten years ago, have been dismayed by how willingly some of its members subordinate reason to blind ideology.
Soon after Alexandre Bissonnette murdered six people at a mosque in Quebec City it was reported that likes on his Facebook page included Donald Trump, French far-right politician Marine Le Pen, and atheist scientist Richard Dawkins. The immediate reaction was to point to the toxic effect nationalists like Trump and Le Pen are having on our political culture, now materialized to tragic effect in what appears to be an ethnically motivated act of violence.
But these defenders of a white Christian vision of nationhood have found curious allies in celebrity atheists like Dawkins and Harris, who echo their paranoid views of Muslims to their ostensibly liberal supporters. Bissonnettes actions and personal likes highlight the weird entanglement of atheists, Christian neoconservatives and theocrats, and far-Right white nationalists, which is something reasonable atheists should reflect on very seriously.
http://religiondispatches.org/atheisms-dark-side-aiding-the-trump-agenda/
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)Movement atheists are united in opposition to Islam, women's rights, racial equality, and are very tenuous on LGBT rights. There is a big crossover with the so-called libertarian movement, which is a bunch of right-wingers who don't go to church but who hate everything that right-wingers hate.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)Here is an example of use of the phrase, but none of the 4 categories are anythingf like the people you're describing:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2012/12/4-kinds-of-movement-atheist-secularist-atheists-identity-atheists-evangelical-atheists-and-constructive-atheists/
Opposition to Islam does turn up, but the rest, frankly, sounds like a made-up load of bollocks.
So what 'movement' are you thinking of?
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)Thanks for asking.
The adjective "movement" signifies that someone or something belongs to a movement. Movement conservatives or conservatives but that belong to the conservative movement. Movement atheists would be atheists who belong to an atheist movement. Who is currently heading the pop culture atheist movement? you ask.
Dawkins, Dennet, Harris.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)There is practically no connection at all between Dennett and Harris. There's no 'movement' either that involves these people, and your accusations of dodgy views on race, LGBT etc. are just rubbish.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)qualifies as "pop culture".
Nor are they "united" in opposing women's rights and racial equality.
I defy you to show us quotes from them and all of the member of the "movement" you claim they head that prove that.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)caroldansen
(725 posts)Greatest among you be servant of all. He can take that up with the Christian God, the God of the Bible.
rug
(82,333 posts)sfwriter
(3,032 posts)That editorial is nonsense. Alexandre Bissonnette hated Islam more than he loved Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins, and no atheist I know of has condoned violence. Buried 12 graphs into this is the fact that Bissonnette liked more Christian sources than Dawkins. I would be leery of calling him a Christian extremest based on that. Atheists sometimes find Islam distasteful because of its human rights record, but I know of none calling for violence.
I also know of no atheist Trump supporters in either the activist community where I live or among the larger community silent atheists in my circles. They voted for everyone BUT Trump. I do know of online atheist trolls who supported Trump, but the author fails to cite this much more robust source of evidence either out of ignorance, laziness or the desire to keep his claims centered on Harris and Dawkins. This is a person with an ax to grind with the New Atheists.
Then in the next to last paragraph, "No one would claim that Bissonnette was motivated to murder specifically by Dawkins words, but the persistence with which he and other New Atheists have uttered these words has contributed to the dismal present condition." So in other words, the author implied just this motivation to murder to create an editorial and is now covering his ass and backing off to a more general claim. Dawkins no more contributed to Trump or the rise of religious hatred toward Islam than did Obama. You can cherry pick anyones statements and actions to make a case for anything.
Finally, the author claims a need to rescue the "narrative of secularism" from its use as a tool of fascism when in reality, secularism of all stripes is under threat from fascism. (https://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-trump-versus-the-pope-its-trump-versus-secularism/)
The whole thing feels like someone reducing the world to fit a lens they're already invested in. I don't know the author, but I'll bet he has some investment in tearing down New Atheists specifically. Anyone know of his background? Is he a Ph.D. student with a dissertation on Dawkins or a book deal to promote?
rug
(82,333 posts)But you're wrong about Harris and Hitchens. They both strongly supported Bush's wars on "Islamic terrorism". That is not simply condoning violence; it's promoting it.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)Dawkins has been mentioned a lot, but he was highly visible in the opposition to the attack on Iraq.
rug
(82,333 posts)Most famously.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)You specifically talked about what sfwriter had said about Hitchens. But sfwriter hadn't said anything.
rug
(82,333 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)despite your assertion. The reply was mostly about the article's assertions about Dawkins; but Dawkins was famously opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Response to rug (Reply #11)
muriel_volestrangler This message was self-deleted by its author.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Some Christians also support such a war.
That some atheists are conservatives is also not surprising. Why should atheists not be as politically diverse as theists?
Bretton Garcia
(970 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It seems obvious to me that intolerance is a universal human behavior.
Bretton Garcia
(970 posts)True Dough
(17,305 posts)And Sam Harris, in my view, is in no way an "exalted representative" of atheism, as characterized by the author. Sure, he has a following, but I disagree with some of his positions including his stance on Muslims.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Just not 100%...
Self-identified atheists tend to be aligned with the Democratic Party and with political liberalism. About two-thirds of atheists (69%) identify as Democrats (or lean in that direction), and a majority (56%) call themselves political liberals (compared with just one-in-ten who say they are conservatives). Atheists overwhelmingly favor same-sex marriage (92%) and legal abortion (87%). In addition, three-quarters (74%) say that government aid to the poor does more good than harm.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/01/10-facts-about-atheists/
True Dough
(17,305 posts)I fit with the majority in all those categories! PEW did some good work there, as far as I'm concerned.
Bretton Garcia
(970 posts)And being disinterested in helping the poor with say, handouts?
True Dough
(17,305 posts)I did the first time around. The sentence in question says government handouts to the poor do MORE GOOD than harm (not more harm than good). It's unusual phrasing that could throw people off.
Bretton Garcia
(970 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)just like Christians who are anti-Muslim.
The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)by "anti-Muslim"
Be specific
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Harris.
"Atheism is a term we do not need in the same way we do not have a term for someone who is not an astrologer."
C_U_L8R
(45,003 posts)RoadhogRidesAgain
(165 posts)And I find a lot of the practices carried it in Muslim countries to be extremely distasteful and wrong. Saudi Arabia is abhorrent in its treatment of gays and women. It's the type of society the GOP tries to implement here. Will some racists latch on to this valid criticism of a RELIGION in order to mask their racially based hatred? Probably.
That's not my fault.
As far as I'm concerned any group of people, be they Christian or Muslim or any other religion that tries to implement Bronze Age backwards beliefs into a modern society will find resistance from me. Frankly if it were up to me, I would purge all forms of religion from society. But I can't do that.
PsychoBabble
(837 posts)... there is no one that I "follow," period. The whole point is to follow MY conscience on a host of issues -- spiritual, cultural, and political.
Maybe the "Movement Atheists" do have leaders, but in my mind that sorta makes them similar to the people who follow religious tenets.
To each their own. But MY leader is ... ME.
The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)What does it have to do with non-belief in gods? Why is any other atheist answerable for what Dawkins and Harris say or think?
Response to rug (Original post)
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