'Mother' should not be used to describe a bomb, Pope says

[Eugene]

Source: Reuters

WORLD NEWS | Sat May 6, 2017 | 6:18pm EDT

'Mother' should not be used to describe a bomb, Pope says

Pope Francis on Saturday criticized the naming of the U.S. military's biggest non-nuclear explosive as "the Mother of All Bombs", saying the word "mother" should not be used in reference to a deadly weapon.

The U.S. Air Force dropped such a bomb, officially designated as the GBU-43 Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) on suspected Islamic State fighters in eastern Afghanistan last month. The nickname was widely used in briefings and reporting on the attack.

"I was ashamed when I heard the name," Pope Francis told an audience of students on Saturday. "A mother gives life and this one gives death, and we call this device a mother. What is happening?"

Pope Francis is set to meet U.S. President Donald Trump on May 24 in a potentially awkward encounter given their opposing positions on immigration, refugees and climate change.

(Reporting by Agnieszka Flak; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-bomb-idUSKBN1820LJ?il=0

[MontanaMama]

1. Thank you Pope Francis.

While I've been happily in-catholic for years now, I can appreciate that statement.

Instead of MOAB, may I suggest TDOD? The Dick Of Death. Anyone??

[No Superstition]

2. He can't really control an unofficial nickname for the Massive Ordnance Air Blast.

What he can control is how often "Father" is used to describe a child molester. Not really awed by his church's history on that one.

[PJMcK]

3. Well said

Keep posting, No Superstition!

[rug]

5. From a massive bomb and massive destruction to child molesting in two posts.

I commend your monomania.

[No Superstition]

6. You have my permission to complain to his predecessors about the PR cost of their moral failures.

But there's no particular reason to pretend anything in his job title gives him any moral authority.

[rug]

10. Your permission has as much weight as your objectivity.

Maybe there's a thread about cardinals in the Birders Group where you can complain about pedophilia. Relevance doesn't seem to stop you.

[WoonTars]

12. Child rape and the catholic church are very relevant, aren't they?

Seems to be a recurring theme around the planet...

[rug]

13. The OP is about a bomb.

Although a comment on it by the Pope may be all that is necessary to trigger anti-Catholics. Regardless of reflexes, It is utterly irrelevant to the OP.

[rug]

15. The diversion is all yours. The reason for your diversion is obvious.

You have all the internet anti-Catholic memes down pat. (Although "ritual cannibalism" has become hoary.)

If you went to spread your anti-Catholicism, start a thread. Oh wait you can't.

The OP is about the largest nonnuclear weapon of mass destruction ever used. And you, you want to discuss laundries and cannibalism to satisfy your itch instead. Pathetic.

[rug]

17. Is it your "point" that molestation be mentioned in every thread, regardless of topic?

That is not merely hijacking a topic, it's disruption.

Your reply is simply a litany of anti-Catholicism having no relation to the OP. It's as if you were a wind-up toy waiting for attention.

The next time you want to direct a screed in my general direction, don't use the weasel word "seem". Have the integrity to speak directly. Because you clearly don't have a clue as to what I think and typing "seem" does not salvage it.

If you don't want me or anyone else calling you on your bullshit, try Jack Chick.com. On second thought, you "seem" to be familiar with it. You have all its anti-Catholic talking points down pat. They're really good at nineteenth century nativist talking points too.

[rug]

20. What is surreal is your unspooling your prejudices and calling it discussion.

I wonder what other topics will trigger you.

[rug]

22. The short answer is no. Here's the longer answer.

The OP is about the use of the largest nonnuclear weapon against human targets.

It is not about a mid-nineteenth century kidnapping that was one of the favorite anti-Catholic subjects of the Know Nothing Party.

This is Democratic Underground not Know Nothing Underground, notwithstanding your very recent registration.

Given the interests expressed in your recent posts, read the difference in those positions.

The Know Nothing Party Platform

The 1840s and 1850s saw an enormous increase in the numbers of European immigrants, Irish and Germans especially, arriving on American shores and settling in heavily populated urban areas. Many of these immigrants subsequently became active in local politics, much to the vexation of old-stock, "real" Americans. The result was a renaissance in the formation of "nativistic" societies—small, shadowy, anti-foreign, anti-Catholic organizations, a number of which banded together in the early 1850s to form the American Party. Popularly known as "Know-Nothings" (after the response members gave when interrogated about their pro-protestant, pro-native associations), the American Party rode a wave of xenophobia and racism (not to mention political turmoil among the Whigs and Democrats, the major parties of the day) into the mid-1850s. Among the Know-Nothing's dubious political ideas was a call to extend the five-year naturalization period to twenty-one years, as well as a proscription against the holding of elected offices by Catholics and foreigners. Like much of the country, however, the Know-Nothings soon divided over the explosive slavery issue, and the power of the party quickly waned.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/american-party-platform-1856

Democratic Underground Terms of Service

No divisive group attacks

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Why we have this rule: Substantive disagreement on important issues is always welcome on this website, but our members should not be made to feel unwelcome simply because they hold a different point of view. Democratic Underground welcomes all people who are members of the Democratic coalition, including the full range of center-to-left viewpoints and supporters of all Democratic public figures.

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My concern is with cult leaders like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Charles_Levin

and with assholes who still spew his crap no matter how long he's been dead.

[Cartoonist]

26. No rug

The OP is about the POPE. When he opens his mouth, hypocrisy pours forth.

[rug]

27. No Cartoonist.

The OP is about the BOMB. When some people open their laptops to post about the Pope, anti-Catholic bigotry pours forth.

[Cartoonist]

28. Pope says

'Mother' should not be used to describe a bomb, Pope says.

[rug]

29. Reuters says

"Pope Francis on Saturday criticized the naming of as "the Mother of All Bombs", saying the word "mother" should not be used in reference to a deadly weapon."

What in the U.S. military's biggest non-nuclear explosive escapes you?

[Cartoonist]

30. Why was this posted in the religion group?

Because it was about the POPE.

[rug]

31. Because, despite your reflexive mouthing about his misogyny, homophobia, pedophilia, wealth,

kidnapping 19th century children, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the price of pizza in Naples, he is in fact on record repeatedly opposing war, racism, rampant capitalism, militarism, ethnic cleansing, as well as, surprisingly. the price of pizza in Naples.

Oh, in case you missed it, a bomb went off last week in Afghanistan. A big one. People died. But first, let's talk about what a pig the pope is, how corrupt the Catholic Church is, and how complicit its members are.

[Cartoonist]

32. how corrupt the Catholic Church is, and how complicit its members are.

and then be called a bigot by an apologist

[rug]

34. Go on Cartoonist. State how corrupt the Catholic Church is, and how complicit ts members.

Then we'll see who the bigot is or is not.

[Cartoonist]

35. The corruption is obvious

Shuffling pedophiles

Complicity: Giving cash to corrupt organizations.

Need a mirror?

[rug]

37. Let me be very clear on what you're saying.

Are you saying that the $8.00 I and my kids put in the basket this morning at Mass makes us complicit in what you say is the corruption of the Catholic Church?

A yes or a no is all that's required of you. No weaseling. Let's just get to the bottom of this.

[Cartoonist]

39. Yes

follow the money

[rug]

40. Thanks for the clear answer. So much for the attack the belief not the person bullshit.

[Cartoonist]

41. You asked for it

Frank thanks you for supporting his Church. That $8 isn't much, but those legal bills keep accumulating.

[rug]

45. You realize yoiu're calling my family, not to mention practicing Catholics, bigots, don't you?

You realize you're calling members of a group, simply by being members of that group, bigots, don't you?

You realize that includes, Biden, Pelosi, 15 Democratic Senators and dozens of Representatives, don't you?

You realize that's all against the ToS don't you?

[WoonTars]

49. I think you have that precisely backwards...you are accusing Cartoonist of being a bigot...

....and I'm pretty sure that's definitely against the DU tos, no?

Can you point out how criticisms of the church's clear problems handling their child raping priests violates the tos? Is it because of the church's well known liberal slant and support of Democratic party policies when it comes to things like freedom of choice, contraception, homosexuality and women's rights? Or the fact that the church actively advocates for exactly the OPPOSITE of those things?

Just so we're clear on where you stand.

[rug]

52. No, I have it precisely the right way.

Your last paragraph is simple dissembling.

Read the question put to him and his answer. He is not simply "criticizing" a religious institution. He is accusing every active member of it of being complicit in its bigotry.

It's the same weak rationalizing given by any antitheist called on bigotry against a religious group and its members. "We're only criticizing the institution" is such bullshit.

So yes, anyone shoveling that shit is pushing bigotry, in this case very specific bigotry towards Catholics, not simply the RCC.

And anyone defending that behavior is, ironically, complicit in it.

Just so we're clear on where you stand.

[Cartoonist]

55. follow the money

do I need to say it again? Nancy knows where her money goes. So do you. Excuse me for not agreeing with her. I don't throw words like bigot around like you do. There is room for disagreement. Nancy herself said so even on the issue of women's choice.

[rug]

57. Nancy Pelosi?

She's a practicing Catholic. You know, one of those people you consider complicit in the RCC's evil. Are you exempting her from your condemnation of practicing Catholics for enabling the RCC?

You don't throw words like bigot around because you can't afford to.

[Cartoonist]

59. I don't approve of giving money to a corrupt organization.

That's something Nancy has to live with. Who am I to judge?

[rug]

61. You're backtracking yourself into a corner, cartoonist.

You routinely say the RCC is corrupt, misogynist, homophobic and riddled with homophobia.

You say practicing Catholics enable all this and that they, the people, are complicit with the RCC.

In doing so, you've broadbrushed not only millions of Catholics but a good part of the Democratic Party's leadership.

That's a far cry from saying you don't "approve" of putting eight bucks in a basket.

If that's not bigotry against Catholics, I don't know what bigotry is. Maybe it's just disruptive trolling of a Democratic board.

[Cartoonist]

54. you use that word a lot

I don't think you know what it means.

[rug]

56. I know precisely what it means.

Here, I'll illustrate it once again.

You realize you're calling members of a group, simply by being members of that group, bigots, don't you?

You realize that includes, Biden, Pelosi, 15 Democratic Senators and dozens of Representatives, don't you?

You won't even deny it.

[Cartoonist]

58. I deny calling them bigots

I know what the word means

[rug]

60. Do you deny calling practicing Catholics complicit in bigotry?

Do you know what that means?

[Cartoonist]

64. I deny it

because you don't have a clue what bigotry means. But yes, they are complicit in financing an organization that commits heinous crimes. Chew on that. Do you deny that your money goes to the church? Do you deny that the church uses that money to pay its victims? Now go look up the word complicit. And look up the word bigot while you're at it.

[rug]

65. I know exactly what a bigot is. Someone who broadbrushes every member of a group.

Like, say, calling Catholics accomplices in a criminal enterprise.

Own your own words.

[Cartoonist]

66. You're still clueless

You can't assign your own meanings to words.
Answer my two questions.

[rug]

67. "But yes, they are complicit in financing an organization that commits heinous crimes"

versus

"Like, say, calling Catholics accomplices in a criminal enterprise."

Are you so blinded by hatred for Catholics that you can't even see what you're typing?

[Cartoonist]

68. accomplice

Learner's definition of ACCOMPLICE

: a person who works with or helps someone who is doing something wrong or illegal

Providing money to the church is helping. Go fucking buy a dictionary, or look up words online.

[rug]

69. That, according to you, includes Biden, Pelosi and a host of others.

You sure you want to spread that shit on this site?

[Cartoonist]

70. I guess English isn't your first language.

Look up the definition of baloney, then make a sandwich.

[rug]

71. It's good enough to read the ToS - and your posts.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. A bomb named for a meaningless acronym meant as a propaganda shot at

the Iraqi/Saddam era 'mother of all battles' propaganda.

This whole issue is as pathetically meaningless as if the Major League Baseball commissioner came out in opposition to the name of a UK weapon of similar duty type, called the 'Grand Slam'.

Edit: shit, that might also be a Cricket term.
Possible opportunity for meaningless multi-faith opposition to the term.

[Lordquinton]

8. I'm having flashbacks to Zardoz

Incoming giant head

[beam me up scottie]

9. Ouch.

Well done!

[WoonTars]

11. That would require proper recognition for their past crimes...

Which continues to elude him...

[rug]

23. Go start a thread on topic, woo.

Let's see exactly what eludes who.

[WoonTars]

33. Could you point me in the direction of where he admits the criminality

...of the child rapists among the clergy, as well as the cover up of those child rapists?

[rug]

36. Sure I could.

Show me your badge .

[WoonTars]

42. My badge? I don't follow?

.

[rug]

44. If you're talking about "admissions of criminality" you're no longer talking religious issues.

[WoonTars]

46. Yeah, still not following?

...the crimes occurred in religious institutions, but I'm not seeing the need for a badge?

[rug]

50. There are a lot of levels in the abuse scandals (thy're not all sexual).

The least of it is not the moral failure and hypocrisy that accompanies it. That I think is the main focus in a room like this.

If anyone is going to talk about admissions of criminality, I'll put my lawyer hat on. If jurisprudence ever encounters morality it would be a chance encounter.

There are a lot of legal reasons many of these actions were taken. There is no moral rationale.

[WoonTars]

51. "There is no moral rationale"...I agree.

But doesn't that then present a huge problem for the followers of that institution that look to it for moral guidance?

[rug]

53. If anyone puts their faith in the people running it, yes.

But I suspect that's not where most Catholics are putting their faith.

[George II]

38. That has been done (the admission) countless times in the last decade or so.

[WoonTars]

43. Of their culpability in the crimes and the cover-up?

I don't recall anything about fully co-operating with bringing the rapists and their enablers to justice? I do recall lots of lip service (sorry for the awkward visual there) about 'we could have done better', but not much in the way of "here's a list of the rapists - please see that the get the full force of the law applied"...

[WoonTars]

47. Whom....'see what eludes whom'...

...I don't have a badge, but bad grammar drives me nuts...

[rug]

48. Single quotes drive me nuts.

[Turbineguy]

4. It's a republican mother.

That works.

[Igel]

7. The "mother church"

has a bit of blood on its hands, as well.

Sometimes il papa strikes me as a bit addlepated. (Okay, that's a bit of an understatement. And so's that.)


However, "mother of all ____" was popularized in part by Saddam Hussein ("mother of all battles&quot , but it wasn't new with him. Muhammed termed liquor or alcohol the "mother of every evil". The phrase is pretty much passe in English, the moment is past (but documents documenting the expression are timeless when necessary).

I guess the Pope thinks the prophet Muhammed was shameful in his speech. Calling the Qur'aan shameful, and so soon after restoring ties with al-Azhar, tsk-tsk. (Or perhaps he thinks it's properly el azar "chance"?)

Then again, I'm sure everybody will now reserve the word "mother" (or it's Southern-pronunciation/spelling "mutha&quot as a term of respect for those who give live. Meaning we can finally ban that wretched Beegees song, with it's "whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother" line.

[MineralMan]

24. In that usage, it is a figure of speech,

and, in this case it alludes to that usage by others. I don't find any reason to object to that use of the word, really.

[hrmjustin]

25. I agree with the pope on this one.

[Lordquinton]

63. Organizations composed exclusively of men shouldn't either

and yet here we are...