Radio: God grant me the serenity to ignore this nonsense

[rug]

TD Ruth Coppinger. Photo: Colin O'Riordan

Darragh McManus
May 7 2017 2:30 AM

Well, am I the Nostradamus of radio columnists or what?

Only last week I wrote about how, while I'm atheist - indeed, opposed to religion on a point of principle - I no longer get all riled up about it, like a teenager trying to annoy their parents. You know the type: atheists who are more obsessed with religion than any mujahideen or Bible-thumper.

God, they're painful. (Pun only partly intended.) If you're a grown adult, living in a society constructed on 2,000-some years of Judeo-Christian mores, and getting bent out of shape over the Angelus, crosses in public places or any of these relatively harmless expressions of faith - you need to get some priorities, a hobby or therapy.

Really - who cares? Religion is all made-up nonsense, but who cares if the Angelus rings on telly? In fact, as an atheist, this stuff should mean so infinitesimally little that you're completely indifferent, and let others pray to whoever they choose.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/radio-god-grant-me-the-serenity-to-ignore-this-nonsense-35681660.html

[Bretton Garcia]

1. Who cares about a little flag?

[MineralMan]

2. For most atheists I know, that is the norm.

Like me, they ignore religion, unless it interferes with people's lives in some serious way. It's a matter of complete indifference to me what people believe about matters that religion addresses. The only time I get exercised is when religion followers attempt to assert that everyone must believe and act as they do. Then, I become annoyed at the unspeakable arrogance of such a position.

[rug]

3. Unspeakable arrogance annoys the shit out of me too.

[AtheistCrusader]

4. "Angelus rings on the telly". RT Ireland is a state public broadcasting system.

"Really - who cares? Religion is all made-up nonsense, but who cares if the Angelus rings on telly? In fact, as an atheist, this stuff should mean so infinitesimally little that you're completely indifferent, and let others pray to whoever they choose."

People who care about separation of Church and State care. The line seems to be in reference to a practice on RTE.

Raidió Teilifís Éireann[2] (Irish pronunciation: [ˈradʲo ˈtʲɛlʲəfʲiːʃ ˈeːrʲən] ( listen); Radio [and] Television of Ireland; abbreviated as RTÉ) is a semi-state company and the national public service broadcaster of the Republic of Ireland.

RTÉ is financed by a television licence fee and through advertising. Some RTÉ services are only funded by advertising, while other RTÉ services are only funded by the licence fee. RTÉ is a statutory body, run by a board appointed by the Government of Ireland. General management of the organisation is in the hands of the Executive Board headed by the Director-General. RTÉ is regulated by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. Radio Éireann, RTÉ's predecessor and at the time a section of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, was one of 23 founding organisations of the European Broadcasting Union in 1950.

It appears RTE is funded by >50% via a television license fee (They have to have a license to own a piece of equipment capable of receiving such signals, common in the UK) via the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

This is not much different than if PBS, partially funded by congress through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting was evangelizing as a state outlet.


Ireland doesn't have our Lemon vs. Kurtzman decision for a test, but it does have a constitution with a similar provisio to our First Amendment that prohibits the establishment of religion by the state.

The state may not "endow" any religion (Article 44.2.2°), nor discriminate on religious grounds (Article 44.2.3°).

So excuse me if I don't care much for McManus's poutrage. The wall of separation needs to be manned. It is completely reasonable that some people will interpret a partially (majority actually) state-funded media outlet proselytizing for the majority religion in the country, as an affront to the Constitution of Ireland.


Author also makes unpleasant sport of mental health issues, with suggesting people need therapy, and 'ADD-addled' etc.

[rug]

5. You've proven his point.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. From your point of view, perhaps.

Irish Catholics enjoy the privilege of being the majority demographic in Ireland. Quelle horreur that some non-Catholics read the Irish Constitution and drew a troubling conclusion from state-funded/licensed media proselytizing for Catholicism at a specific time every day.

The Irish Government's stake in the broadcasting corp is smaller than it was in the 70's, but it is still a state license with monies directed to a state regulated, and partially owned media outlet.


Presumably the RTE network does not halt broadcasting programming 5x a day for Salah. That is state favoritism of one religion over another, a bright line violation of the Constitution of that country, and an easy issue to solve.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. These people don't seem super hyperbolic or 'uppity' about changing the practice.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/angelus-still-ringing-with-controversy-60-years-on-128159.html

http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/controversy_over_use_of_the_angelus_in_irish_broadcasting

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-11037752

And the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/sep/23/rte-angelus-Ireland


It appears Ireland has many of the same 'religious test for office' and other first-amendment-y issues around Religion, that we have. And the poutrage in your OP is symptomatic of a loss of privilege, even if it was apparently authored by a secular person. Religious accoutrements and trappings can be a cultural artifact as well, even for a secular person.

[rug]

8. What privilege is the author asserting?

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Special dispensation to catholic religious iconography and ritual on public broadcasting supported

by government dollars.

There's nothing stopping an atheist from embracing a common religious cultural artifact in a nation immersed in said religion. It's an odd position for them to take, but w/e.

Perhaps if we had a concrete example of the groups working to stop RTE from broadcasting such material, being somehow over the top or ridiculous, that would be useful, but I see no basis for calling them "getting bent out of shape over the Angelus" or "harmless expressions of religion", as a STATE funded thing.

[rug]

10. Irish Law is not American law.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Right, which is why I repeatedly referred to the Irish Constitution.

Perhaps if you read it, or at least the excerpt.

[rug]

12. This Irish Constitution? The one with this Preamble?

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,

Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,

And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,

Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Yes. They call it Fundamental Rights, which is funny when you said core legal rights earlier.

Religious freedom: A citizen's freedom of religious conscience, practice, and worship is guaranteed, "subject to public order and morality", by Article 44.2.1°. The state may not "endow" any religion (Article 44.2.2°), nor discriminate on religious grounds (Article 44.2.3°).

We had that too, December 15th 1791. Took a while for the reality to promulgate through the organs of state and federal government. (Still are)

Ireland's was ratified 1937. They're doing pretty good, given the timescale.

[rug]

14. Article 44, Section 1.

article 44

1 the state acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to almighty God. it shall hold his name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Article 44.2.2 The State guarantees not to endow any religion.

Again, state resources, collected via state licensure, being spent on state media, favoring a specific sect of Christianity.

Same reason they had to explicitly snuff a 'catholic first' school admission policy. RTÉ policy will likely change. People asking the policy to change, are not being "getting bent out of shape". It's a reasonable request for a sandbox which purports no special rights to any specific religion, and funds programming like RTE.

The OP piece is hyperbolic trash. Not because there aren't maybe some hysterical raging internet commenters, but because it frames any approach to eliminating the issue as 'getting bent out of shape', allowing for no discussion, disapproval, or advocacy against it no matter how mild or rational.

[rug]

17. It is "hyperbolic trash" that has struck a nerve of yours resulting in a flurry of apologia.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Ok man, whatever. Have a nice day or something.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. McManus is a dolt

He starts off with a few paragraphs of "who cares? Religion is all nonsense". Then he gets on to someone else taking that attitude - Ruth Coppinger not standing for a prayer - and then suddenly he's objecting to her inaction. He says people should be "completely indifferent, and let others pray to whoever they choose", and then he's complaining that someone does precisely that. He's demanding that she pretends to care.

The prayer that she is meant to be honouring can be seen here: http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-prayer-3-3368972-May2017/