Good news: Vanderbilt ties racial justice to religion in new program

[guillaumeb]

from the article:

Watching the civil rights protests on television as a child, Emilie Townes asked her mother, “Why do they hate us?”
Today, as dean of Vanderbilt Divinity School, Townes is behind an effort to make that question a thing of the past with a new collaborative aimed at eradicating hate and promoting racial harmony.

To read more:

http://religionnews.com/2017/09/19/vanderbilt-ties-racial-justice-to-religion-in-new-program/

[edhopper]

1. Why did you put this in the Religion forum?

Surely racial justice is a worthwhile cause on it's own without religion?
What does religion have to do with a call for eradicating hate?

[amalasuntha]

4. Somewhat clueless about Christ's teachings aren't we.

[guillaumeb]

5. Well, the part about the Vanderbilt Divinity School is one reason.

Did you also ask the poster who posted about atheism in the religion group as to reasons?

[edhopper]

21. No I am asking you,

the person who said someone who decided not to kill themselves because, they said, of their atheism, had nothing to do with atheism.

Works both ways. Though I doubt you can see that.

[guillaumeb]

22. You asked: "Why did you put this in the Religion forum?".

And I explained the why. And then I asked if you exhibited the same curiosity about a person posting about atheism in a forum devoted to religion.

So one might wonder why the apparent double standard.

[edhopper]

24. go back to you reply in the

thread about the woman who decided not to kill herself and maybe you will understand.

If not maybe someone can explain it to you.

[guillaumeb]

25. Oh I understand.

[trotsky]

2. Hmm

“This is really about the composite drawing of God, the idea that everyone is a witness and has something to offer to the way we project the idea of God to the world,” Smallwood said. “We want to be the kind of folk who can, through the faith language, impact the world.”

No place for non-believers in this program, it seems. Kinda discriminatory but hey, we're used to it. Christian love and all that.

[Lordquinton]

3. Whenever a theist group tries to create coalitions

They always leave out atheists. Of course we're always"welcome" to the festivities, if we nod along with all the praying and keep under wraps that whole non-belief thing...

Like the interfaith stuff, always setup as some all inclusive event, but they don't realize the name exclude atheists.

[guillaumeb]

7. Have you attempted to join this coalition?

Have you attempted to join any social justice coalitions that include religious groups?

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Yes, and the org required that I pretend, or lie, in order to meet qualifications for membership.

[guillaumeb]

13. Which organization?

And what were the qualifications?

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Boy Scouts of America for one.

My son would have to lie/fake a belief in SOME sort of supernatural overlord to be a member, and I would as well to be a scout leader.

One of their members (who knows full fucking well I am an atheist) tried to recruit me AGAIN last week.

[Act_of_Reparation]

18. Same here.

Had to fake believe to get my Eagle.

[guillaumeb]

19. Sad that in a country that was (supposedly) founded on tolerance

that any such "purity test" would be required. One wonders if the ACLU would be interested in pursuing this.

But the Boy Scouts are not really a social justice coalition so the example is not on point.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Everyone freaked out the last time the Boy Scouts of America's congressional charter was questioned

on religious/Lemon Test grounds.

For now it is a legal form of discrimination.

[Lordquinton]

26. That is not what I said

And I have tried joining"interfaith" groups and they live up to what I said.

[guillaumeb]

29. Perhaps the word "interfaith" provides a clue?

Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but there are social justice coalitions that are not based on faith. It is up to you to find one, or failing that, perhaps to start one.

[trotsky]

31. So right here, yep, you confirm that you are indeed OK with excluding non-believers.

Fuck 'em, let 'em start their own group, huh?

Nice. Feeling that Christian love...

[guillaumeb]

33. Something WAS confirmed.

That you apparently read what you feel that you need to read into whatever comment is made.

[Lordquinton]

34. So, excluding non-believers is ok?

These things are founded to be "all inclusive" but then exclude a populace, kinda hypocritical, isn't it?

[guillaumeb]

36. What in the original article leads one to believe

that non-theists are excluded? Do you have additional information not included in the original link?

[Lordquinton]

38. Are you being a literalist when it comes to exclusionary language?

Are you only counting if someone says "I am excluding this group" as valid? Cause if you do you have a lot to learn when it comes to social justice.

[guillaumeb]

6. Have you contacted the program managers to ask if there is a place for agnostics?

But in line with your assumption, one wonders how many non-believers attend or would wish to attend a divinity school.

[trotsky]

8. Based on the number of atheists I know who have attended divinity school,

I feel confident saying the number is non-zero.

So moving on from your feeble and failed attempt at trying to dismiss this discrimination, it is worth nothing other quotes from the article:

...it continues with “summer intensives” designed to equip clergy and other religion professionals, laypeople, local business owners, community organizers and students to counter racism with faith and justice not just in their own communities, but together.

There are laypeople, business owners, community organizers, and students who are non-believers. You know that, right?

The goal is to create a “national hub” for racial justice. Faith, she said, is a vital spoke in that hub.

A "national hub for racial justice" should by definition include everyone, not just religious believers.

So are you OK with discriminating against atheists?

[guillaumeb]

9. A weak attempt to control the discussion on your part.

Perhaps, rather than impute motives on the basis of your personal belief, you should contact the program and speak about your concerns.

Alternatively, you could also work on a national and/or local hub for racial justice. or join an existing group.

I realize that criticism is easy for some, and certainly far easier than actually building a coalition.

[trotsky]

10. Sometimes I don't even know if you're serious.

I'm pointing out that these efforts are explicitly excluding atheists.

Rather than acknowledge the fact, you just seek to excuse it, and attack me.

Par for the course though, as I've learned. Some Christians are just full of hate, not love.

[guillaumeb]

11. You are pointing out your own agenda.

Unless you can provide proof that these efforts explicitly exclude non-theists. And I notice that you ignored the rest of my response. Why?

[trotsky]

14. I ignored the rest of your post because it's an attempt at deflection.

I quoted the article you posted demonstrating that these efforts exclude anyone who doesn't have religious faith.

You haven't disputed that AT ALL; you've only made it personal again. Like I said, par for the course.

Apparently you do support discrimination against atheists. You haven't said otherwise.

[guillaumeb]

15. The excerpts that you cited do not actually support what you are claiming.

But you have the right to your opinion.

[trotsky]

17. Ah yes, your last fallback. "That's just your opinion, man."

Bless your heart.

[guillaumeb]

20. Not a fallback. Your excerpts simply do not support your framing.

[trotsky]

28. Yeah, that's just, like, your opinion man.

I'm going to call out religious bigotry anytime I see it.

[Lordquinton]

27. Maybe stop telling atheists that their learned experiences are wrong

This stuff exclude atheists. Not opinion.

If you don't understand why maybe listen to the Atheists who are telling you how.

Theists don't like atheists being vocal because it causes doubt. Try being a vocal atheist in any sort of this group. And I don't even mean display that you're an atheist as much as Christians of Muslims or any other faith advertises, just bring it up when it comes up. If they ask you to pray, or where you go to church. See how welcoming it feels.

[guillaumeb]

30. The poster excerpted pieces that do not support what the poster is claiming.

It is that simple. And that, no matter how obvious the attempt to divert, is the only issue in this sub-thread.

[trotsky]

32. That is simply your opinion, and you are entitled to it. n/t

[Lordquinton]

35. Except they actually did

You saying so doesn't make it so.

[guillaumeb]

37. You, and others, made the claim. Prove it.

[Lordquinton]

39. Ok

..it continues with “summer intensives” designed to equip clergy and other religion professionals, laypeople, local business owners, community organizers and students to counter racism with faith and justice not just in their own communities, but together.

There are laypeople, business owners, community organizers, and students who are non-believers. You know that, right?

The goal is to create a “national hub” for racial justice. Faith, she said, is a vital spoke in that hub.

[guillaumeb]

40. Let us consider the last sentence, which reads:

The goal is to create a “national hub” for racial justice. Faith, she said, is a vital spoke in that hub.

If she had said that faith was the only hub, I would agree with you, but unfortunately for your argument, she did not. Generally spoked wheels have multiple spokes or they would be solid wheels.

And nowhere in the article does it say that they would exclude non-theists. You are assuming something with no evidence for it. So again, unless you have some evidence to present, I will respectfully disagree.