Religion
Related: About this forumObama's Same-Sex Marriage Announcement: A Victory for Religion
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-michaelson/obamas-same-sex-marriage-anouncement_b_1504083.htmlJay Michaelson
Author, 'God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality'
Posted: 05/09/2012 5:37 pm
Angry voices on the so-called "Christian right" are already screaming about President Obama's "war on religion," but today's announcement regarding same-sex marriage was actually an inspiring religious pronouncement. Why?
First, because it came one day after one of the nastiest, meanest anti-gay votes in recent memory, North Carolina's "no families but mine" Amendment 1. It offers a studied contrast between humanity and dogmatism, inclusion and nastiness. Religious and non-religious people alike can now see two very different ways of approaching how we ought to live with one another, one welcoming and the other cruel, one open to the experience of others and the other with its hands over its ears, one focused on compassion and the other focused on exclusion. Who Would Jesus Discriminate against, anyway?
Second, Obama's statement is a model of religious reasoning. Jesus said in the Sermon of the Mount, "By your fruits, you shall know them" (Matthew 7:16). This, not some obscure lines in Leviticus or Corinthians, is the real religious message regarding gays and lesbians, and it is the way Obama made up his mind on this issue. Over time, he said, he has come to understand the truth of same-sex couples, that they are as capable of commitment, love, and sanctity as opposite-sex couples, and that it is an injustice to deny the benefits of marriage to gay people.
Those are religious values; they are exactly what the Sermon on the Mount preaches, as well. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit," Jesus said (Matthew 7:18). Well, let's apply that method to the question of same-sex marriage. Does it produce bad fruit or good fruit? Good fruit, as Obama himself has come to understand. Therefore, it, too, is good.
more at link
longship
(40,416 posts)But that argument seems to cut two ways. So I am not entirely comfortable with a characterization that this is a victory for religion... at least not yet.
The two of us have discussed the issue of how many liberal religious people are standing up to the religious conservatives. I've enjoyed those discussions very much.
In this particular case, concerning LGBT marriage equality, I would sincerely hope that some prominent religious figures, either lay or pastor, would step foreword and make a demonstration that this is clearly and unmistakably not a religious issue, per se.
Already the conservatives are trumpeting their positions (Billy Graham, etc). People like Rev. Barry Lynn will undoubtedly be supporting Obama's position. Wouldn't it be nice if this happened? That may defuse some of the religious ranker in the campaign. That is something devoutly to be wished (so to speak).
cbayer
(146,218 posts)The religious right, co-opted by the neocons, used the cloak of their religion to advance hate and bigotry.
The religious case for full civil rights can and is being made. The more people that hear that, the more people that will come forward to counter the religious right.
Nice to see you again, longship.
longship
(40,416 posts)My usual verbosity often obfuscates my message.
You said: "Take it back." Exactly. If the Republicans can use religion, why not Dems? And one hopes that non-theists would be included (although that might not always be advantageous, I admit). But if a crowd of religious folks wanted to march on DC for a good political cause, I'd go if I could wrangle it and stand next to them without an atheist banner.
I wish somebody with resources would see what an advantage that would give Obama and the Democrats in the Fall.
on edit: as always, cbayer
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It would be great if believers and non-believers could make a strong political statement together on issues we agree upon.
I think you should even bring your atheist banner.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Why does religion get the credit but never the blame?
The Magistrate
(95,257 posts)One fears it will never get a straight answer....
rug
(82,333 posts)It gets the blame quite often.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)responsible for utter failure in North Carolina. Despite some serious groundswell from the liberal/progressive religious community to defeat this bill, they were completely overshadowed by the religious right.
This article is about Obama and how he came to his current position.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Yet fail to realize that those points and arguments work just as effectively both ways.
edcantor
(325 posts)making the auto industry successful once again?
Yup, that works the same way!
With hundreds of rich televangelist ministers plastering the cable stations day after day about "a man and a woman" and "bible" and "Christian"
They both, religion and Romney, deserve about the same amount of credit for all this progress !
Obama's statement is a model of religious reasoning
In what parallel universe?
Look through the 770,000 word document we call a Christian Bible, I'm sure some people can find a few sentences somewhere to compliment their political persuasion.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Last edited Fri May 11, 2012, 04:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Is someone seriously insinuating that?
I give up. It appears I'm no longer arguing about anything here, I'm just pointing at the crazy and saying, "Wow, someone is saying that. WTF?"
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I'm pretty darn sure if we did a poll of support for gay marriage and compared religious to non-religious that the non-religious would have a higher support %. But, sure, coming out against gay marriage is because of religion. Whatever get them through the day, I guess.