Religion
Related: About this forumHow many murders of Atheists are OK?
Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2018, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Here's a story about one. It's from 2017, so maybe it doesn't matter, because that was, you know, a long time ago. And, you know, besides, the murdered man was a vocal atheist. So, maybe, never mind:
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/tamil-nadu-youth-h-farook-killed-for-being-an-atheist-father-says-he-too-will-become-one-4586999/
THE FATHER of H Farook, the atheist who was murdered in Coimbatore 10 days ago, allegedly by members of a Muslim radical group, has said that if his son was killed for his views, he too would become an atheist.
Speaking to The Indian Express, 54-year-old R Hameed said, If the police version is true, that he was murdered by a radical Muslim group, then they killed my son using wrong interpretations of the Quran. The Quran is one holy book that insists on and allows the right of dissent since the time of the Prophet. If they killed him for being an atheist, I have decided to join his organisation and do what he did.
{snip}
Farook, a member of the Dravidar Viduthalai Kazhagam (DVK), was Hameeds elder son and used to run a scrap business in Ukkadam, near Coimbatore. On March 16, the 31-year-old was hacked to death, 15 days after he posted a photo of one of his children holding a placard with the handwritten slogan Kadavul illai, Kadavul illai, Kadavul illai (No God, No God, No God).
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)The article I referenced was regarding conversion to Christianity.
Apostasy does not equate to Atheism.
I also pointed out that these extremes in "religion" are political, and corrupt the religion.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I don't give a damn what religion anyone follows or whether they follow one at all. I'm very weary of hearing people deemed to be somehow bad for their beliefs or non-beliefs.
I don't care how many die. It's too many. I don't care if it is a "corruption" of religion that leads to such deaths.
It all starts by believing that religion matters so much. It doesn't. I'm an atheist, but my ethical standards fit well within what Christians are supposed to follow. Some do. Some don't. It fits within what Islamic standards are supposed to be, as well, or Hindu or Buddhist or any other religion. But I don't believe any of that supernatural clap-trap at all. Why would anyone care?
When beliefs matter too much, as they obviously do to too many, people die because of those beliefs. That's my objection.
My atheism doesn't make me want to kill anyone. It doesn't make me want to force others not to believe. However, there are examples everywhere of beliefs leading to people dying. Why is that, yallerdawg? Why are we even debating such things here?
You, in another thread, minimized the importance of such murders by talking about numbers. Numbers do not matter. In the article I posted here, a young man died because of religious beliefs. He was "hacked to death." Are you not horrified by that?
I don't care about the "rarity" of such things. That does not matter to me at all. What I care about is that beliefs lead to such murders. I don't what what beliefs. I only care that people are murdered over beliefs.
Don't minimize those deaths by quoting numbers. That's lousy logic. It's dangerous logic. That kind of logic perpetuates the problem.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)This is the faulty logic.
"Radical Muslim extremists" are not representative of Islam.
Radical extremists of any religion are not representative of that religion.
You seriously think that if I disagree with how YOU are characterizing these religions I am a bad person?
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I am condemning religious beliefs for those acts. Clearly the religious beliefs of those who murdered that man by hacking him to death were the proximate cause of his death.
Radical believers are still believers. Radical Muslims. Radical Christians. Radical Hindus. Radicals of all belief systems. If they commit murders because of their beliefs, they are murderers in the name of their beliefs.
I don't know why you disagree with me. I don't even know if you do disagree with me. I don't much care, to tell you the truth.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Neither has a stronger claim to Islam. It's just that one garners admiration and the other garners headlines.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The important thing here is that atheists stop being so offensive. If they'd just keep their opinions to themselves, there'd be zero murders! Problem solved!
of course.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)loud and clear, eh? As I said in another thread, "Fuck that."
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Is that representative of Islam?
Is this justification to denounce an entire religion?
For some people, it would sure seem to be!
I just don't think that's us.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)They are Muslims. They killed an atheist over those beliefs. Why would I care if it's representative?
I am not denouncing Islam. I'm denouncing murder based on beliefs.
I have not denounced Islam or any other religion. Ever. I have written a post on DU, in the Religion Group. That's all.
Pay attention, please. I have denounced murder based on belief. Muslims have killed people, Christians have killed people, Hindus have killed people, atheists have killed people. I denounce them all for killing people over religious belief.
What about that do you fail to understand? You're arguing with me about something I have never said. Why are you doing that?
It's illogical. I am not "some people." Clearly, I am one person, writing posts on a discussion forum.
I denounce violence based on religious belief. Period. I denounce it whether it's one instance or some freaking holy war.
Do you denounce it across the board as I do? If not, please explain yourself.
Religious beliefs and attitudes toward religious beliefs too often lead to murder. It happens all the time. I denounce that. All reasonable people denounce that. They don't try to justify it using numbers. They don't try to justify it for any reason. Those who do are not using reason at all. Are you one of those?
Consider your answer carefully, I suggest.
Iggo
(47,571 posts)Expert score-keepers, they.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)they must already be busy. Lovely feature, that Ignore button.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)to be aware of what is being written by everyone. Sometimes, that's very uncomfortable.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I don't feel like I'm missing much.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I am here to argue against the worst of people's beliefs. That's my reason for bothering at all with this particular group.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)It certainly doesn't mean I can't ignore.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Do you think it's funny, somehow, this discussion?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)No smilie here.
Iggo
(47,571 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)One of the habitual liars in this group is entertaining, at least sometimes. The other one is just boring.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I find them very interesting. I have great patience, I guess. I also have time. So, it amuses me to engage with them. I'm easily amused, I suppose.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Talk about a smear campaign. Perhaps a follow up with private messages to reinforce?
Sad.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)They are not mine.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But the same anger is also expressed more diplomatically by others.
Edited to add: What are athiests? (referring to the title)
Mariana
(14,861 posts)than I would, since as you've told us, you receive numerous personal messages praising you for your performances here. Am I to understand that you and your fan club also engage in gossip via private messages?
Gil, honestly, you come off as stupid when you feign misunderstanding of an incorrectly typed word. Now, I know you aren't stupid, so why would you want to pretend to be? What does that accomplish?
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2018, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)
Those with no blame know their names.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 25, 2018, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)
One simply spams a deliberately semi-literate strawman over all objections, then puts on an aggrieved act for his audience when he's called on it. The other just says egregiously stupid stuff and doubles down on it in the most obtuse manner possible until rational human beings lose interest. Even watching the two regularly being beaten like drums gets very boring very quickly.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,333 posts)It's a common typo, I guess. I before E thing with the fingers. Thanks again. I always appreciate someone reminding me.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)but it doesn't matter. Nobody should be murdering anybody.