On Draw Mohammed Day, don't forget: Drawing Jesus is just as offensive to devout Muslims too!

[Poll_Blind]

On Draw Mohammed Day, don't forget: Drawing Jesus is just as offensive to devout Muslims too!

So be sure to scribble down some pictures of him and maybe King David (King of Israel) or Moses or maybe Abraham, too. All of those guys are considered Prophets in Islam. In fact, except for King David, those guys are also considered holy Messengers, which is on the same par as Mohammed, himself.

In fact, Islam is the only religion of the big three that actually accepts prophets from the other two as valid.

But you wouldn't know that, LOL! All you know is that there's something a little dangerous and maybe even patriotic (!) about drawing a picture of Mohammed- because it pisses off Muslims! Actually...hate to break it to ya...it doesn't piss them off. Not the majority of them, anyway. There's like a billion Muslims, BTW. The only reason there's a prohibition against drawing those religious figures is that they didn't want people to go around worshiping images of holy men instead of the One True God, which is what monotheism is all about anyway, right?



So scan in a crayola drawing of Mohammed and Moses, especially one with them kissing a pig or something really fucking offensive- post it to Facebook and it's like you're practically a co-signer on the Bill of Rights!

Or not. It certainly absolves you of having to fight the real battle that fundamentalist Christians are taking to your bedroom, your love life, your library- here in America! But that would probably would be hard.

Hard = Yuck!

But it's worth remembering that if all that oil in the Middle East had Hindus living over it, you'd be celebrating "Eat a Hamburger and think of Vishnu Day" and if in some alternate universe there were 200 million Jews sitting on all that black gold, there'd be a special edition of Wheel of Fortune to put the vowels back in Jehovah's name.

Suckers!



And I'm an atheist, too! Normally, the major religions with their sky wizards and all that silly shit are by far the most entertaining thing keeping the world going. But on Draw Mohammed Day, the ignorance and bigotry of the Patriotic Poserati here, if only for a moment, eclipses all of that.

PB

[NYC_SKP]

1. Pointless.

One could be out gardening, for example, instead.

[rug]

2. And stupid.

[leftyohiolib]

3. sky wizards there's that term the closed minded love to toss around to insult people

if you dont like religion then dont have one but stop pissing on the people that do.

[Poll_Blind]

4. I don't believe in gods. Sorry. The closest rational approximation is an...

...invisible wizard that lives in the sky.



No "pissing" involved. It is a secular, non-religious description of a religious concept.

PB

[Thats my opinion]

57. One of the marks of an education person,

is an ability and willingness to define a word or concept in such a way that someone who holds it can say, "yes, that is what I believe." The question is not what you believe, but whether you understand what someone else does. If "religion" is really about rational discourse, perhaps that ought to be a minimum requirement.

No theist anywhere would define God as an "invisible wizard that lives in the sky."

I could come up with some snide definition of atheism. It would not define the word to your satisfaction, but it would mark me as arrogant and ignorant.

[EvilAL]

58. No theist anywhere would define God as an "invisible wizard that lives in the sky."

What would any theist describe God as then?

[braddy]

5. A Jesus drawing can be sold, and appreciated or mocked, a Mohammed drawing gets you murdered.

MSNBC: A cartoonist has disappeared from public view because she's on an Islamic cleric's hitlist for declaring "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" last ...

Salmon Rushdie knows the reality of this, he will be in danger for the rest of his life.

[backscatter712]

6. And this is why Draw Mohammed Day is important.

Sorry, I'm not a Muslim. And thugs purporting to represent Islam do not have the right to tell me what I can and can't draw - I'm not bound by their taboos.

[rug]

9. That is the most disingenuous bullshit posted here in some time.

And that's a pretty high bar.

[backscatter712]

11. Feel the same way about homosexuality?

Muslims are required not to draw Mohammed and not to be LGBT because it says so in their book.

Yet those of us who wag fingers at those who draw Mohammed extend a middle finger at those who suggest gay people be put to death because it says so in the Koran.

[rug]

20. And now you've topped yourself.

Are you trying to justify a racist cartoon by calling someone homophobic?

[daaron]

23. Ridiculing a religion is not racist. nt

[mr blur]

26. A religion is not a race. How that must bother you,

being unable to defend the indefensible - Catholicism - by crying "Racism!"

[rug]

35. Neither is Judaism. That didn't stop bigots from publishing caricatures.

[backscatter712]

39. There's is both a Jewish religion and a Jewish ethnic group.

That creates confusion.

For example, Albert Einstein is ethnically German-Jewish, but religiously an agnostic.

[rug]

40. And this is religious not ethnic, right?

[backscatter712]

41. Problem?

?1296494117

[rug]

42. Yes, this is a problem.

[backscatter712]

43. You're reading something into this pic that isn't there.

[CrawlingChaos]

53. +1

[rexcat]

17. Not really...

considering stuff posted by others in this forum, especially the apologist for the theists in this forum. I could think of some in particular but I won't call them out.

[rug]

21. Oh please do.

If you want to categorize disinegnous bullshit by theist apologist and atheist apologist, that's an easy contet.

[eqfan592]

25. And on that note....

?1313401048

[rexcat]

29. My beef is not with the majority of atheists on DU of which I am one...

and it would be against the rules of DU to call anyone out. Your ethics seem dubious if you are encouraging someone to break the rules on DU. There are a few "atheists" and theists who can't post in one of the other forums but at this time I can't remember who they are and don't care since we atheists and agnostics don't have to read their dribble in that particular forum. Just saying.

[laconicsax]

24. Which part are you saying is disingenuous bullshit?

-The part where backscatter712 says he isn't Muslim?
-The part where he says that the "thugs purporting to represent Islam" have no right to dictate what he can and can't draw?
-The part where he says that he isn't bound by certain Islamic taboos.

-If it's the first, please provide evidence that backscatter712 is Muslim.
-If it's the second, please explain why Muslims have a right to control what backscatter712 does and doesn't do.
-If it's the third, please explain why backscatter712 is bound by certain Islamic taboos.

[AlbertCat]

32. Which part are you saying is disingenuous bullshit?

The "Draw Mohammed Day is important" part no doubt.

And it is indeed not "important"... but much needed. Religions are way too full of themselves.

[braddy]

10. I agree with you, let's saturate the public sphere with Mohammad images, until they drop this death

Unfortunately some major news figures and Hollywood leaders have admitted that they leave Islam alone because of the mandatory death sentence attached to negative news coverage, or negative movie and TV portrayals.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Psst: The same Muslims who'd kill you for drawing Mohammed would kill you anyway.

Same with the Christians who'd kill you for being an abortion clinic doctor.

Unless you're posessed by the idea that a picture of Mohammed causes the peaceful bulk of the 1+ Bln Muslims into a murderous, Hulk-like rage?



PB

[braddy]

8. a freak killing someone is different from a formally issued, global, lifetime kill order

[braddy]

15. Ask Salmon Rushdie if the death pronouncement is global and persistent

""There is a shrine in Tehran's Behesht-e Zahra cemetery for Mustafa Mahmoud Mazeh that says he was "Martyred in London, 3 August 1989. The first martyr to die on a mission to kill Salman Rushdie." Mazeh's mother was invited to relocate to Iran, and the Islamic World Movement of Martyrs' Commemoration built his shrine in the cemetery that holds thousands of Iranian soldiers slain in the Iran–Iraq War.[36] During the 2006 Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah declared that "If there had been a Muslim to carry out Imam Khomeini's fatwā against the renegade Salman Rushdie, this rabble who insult our Prophet Mohammed in Denmark, Norway and France would not have dared to do so. I am sure there are millions of Muslims who are ready to give their lives to defend our prophet's honour and we have to be ready to do anything for that."[46] James Phillips of the Heritage Foundation testified before the United States Congress that a "March 1989" [sic] explosion in Britain was a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate Rushdie ""

[CrawlingChaos]

18. your source is the Heritage Foundation (n/t)

[braddy]

19. Actually that is from Wikipedia.

[backscatter712]

30. Rushdie is still in hiding.

I'd have to look it up, I believe it's in Christopher Hitchen's book God Is Not Great, but he talks about what Rushdie went through - Hitchens put up Rushdie in his apartment for a while, and he and Rushdie had to take some elaborate security measures to keep Muslim fanatics from making assassination attempts.

[CrawlingChaos]

12. oh, does it?

What's the body count these days on murdered Mohammed-drawing cartoonists? How many have been killed?

[braddy]

13. As far as I know, every cartoonist that becomes publicly known, becomes hunted.

[CrawlingChaos]

16. "becomes hunted"... LOL

How many have been killed? Or even harmed?

[braddy]

22. The very artist that created the drawing "day" is in hiding now, and is changing her identity

She has begged for the day to stop, she is pleading for her life.

Personally, I support the day, but I know that people will probably die because of it.

She is managing to stay alive, as Rushdie and many others have, Gogh wasn't so lucky.

Managing to survive in hiding and with security does not change the fact that Islam issues formal, global, death sentences on people such as the cartoonist.

Even huge numbers of Muslims die in the resulting riots.




U.S. cartoonist in hiding after cleric's threat
Artist 'essentially wiping away her identity.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39203336/ns/us_news-security/t/us-cartoonist-hiding-after-clerics-threat/

[CrawlingChaos]

31. You really have that ass backwards

It's my understanding that her stupid event spawned such a wave of hateful, racist depictions of Muslims that she got scared and tried to pull the plug.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/04/creators-of-everybody-draw-muhammad-day-appalled-by-hate/

[braddy]

33. She is in fear for her life, and was warned by the FBI because of Muslims, not cartoonists

The destruction of her life is not because she doesn't like various ugly cartoons, but because she is now to be killed for insulting Islam.

[CrawlingChaos]

36. the BS is just overwhelming here

You'll notice it's been years, and she's just fine. Despite how incredibly ugly things got with the racist depictions her event inspired.

And don't say the fact that she's "in hiding" is proof of jack squat. I could crawl under my bed right now and say I'm hiding from Swedes - doesn't mean Swedes are coming to kill me. (unless....???)

Can't we please get beyond the FauxNews-style anti-Muslim fearmongering?

[braddy]

37. Wow, years?? since last Spring? MSNBC is making it up???

You think that MSNBC is lying when they report this?

"A cartoonist has disappeared from public view because she's on an Islamic cleric's hitlist for declaring "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" last spring, according to a newspaper that ran her drawings.

Seattle Weekly Editor in Chief Mark D. Fefer posted an article Wednesday saying Molly Norris is "moving, changing her name and essentially wiping away her identity" on the advice of the FBI.

The FBI's Seattle counterterrorism program manager, David Gomez, told msnbc.com that he could not confirm Fefer's statement about Norris changing her identity.
He did acknowledge previous FBI statements that Norris had been warned of a serious threat.
While the FBI is not in the advice business, Gomez said, "In extraordinary cases we will assist individuals in obtaining proper advice."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39203336/ns/us_news-security/t/us-cartoonist-hiding-after-clerics-threat/

[CrawlingChaos]

45. Since this is the THIRD annual Draw Mohammed Day, that does mean it's been years

And you do need to explore the concept that MSM, which certainly includes MSNBC, is not interested in providing you with truth. IOW, you need to learn to smell bullshit close up.

[braddy]

49. It has encompassed two years, I'll split the difference with you, but she hides from Islam.

The woman is still hiding, and in fear for her life, as all that stand up to the Mohammaden Death Cult are under the threat of death.

She isn't in hiding from other other cartoonists as you claim, but from Muslim terrorists.

"On July 11, 2010, it was reported that Yemeni-American al-Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki had put Molly Norris on a hitlist. In the English-language al-Qaeda magazine Inspire, Al-Awlaki wrote "The medicine prescribed by the Messenger of Allah is the execution of those involved"

"Norris has since changed her name and gone into hiding. According to the Seattle Weekly (her former employer), this decision was based on "the insistence of top security specialists at the FBI."

[CrawlingChaos]

50. "Mohammaden Death Cult"?! Are you serious?

You're deep into Pamela Gellar territory now.

You seriously misunderstood the story I linked to. Neither I nor anyone else suggested Molly Norris was hiding from cartoonists (hard not to laugh as I type this). Her Draw Mohammed Day resulted in submissions of such a horrific racist nature that she became afraid of the anger that might naturally result from such offensive racist material being created in connection with her event.

The inherent racism in these anti-Muslim attacks is never very far below the surface.

[braddy]

54. Islam is a religion, not a race, and she fears for her life from Mohammedans.

She isn't fleeing for her life and in hiding because she doesn't want to see ugly, (racist? what race is Islam?) cartoons, she is fleeing a death sentence from the Mohammedan Death Cult.

The global dealers of murder and terrorism attack the human species, nations of all races, religions, forms of government, of all corners of the earth and types of cultures, are facing the death dealing terrorists who kill in the name of Allah, and in the seeking of their heaven of virginal female flesh.


Who do you think she is fleeing from again?

[CrawlingChaos]

55. Like talking to a brick wall

It's disturbing that you and small number of others here cannot seem to spot blatant racism, let alone hear racist dog whistles. Just look at the images in the "Draw Mohammed Day" thread. If they were anti-semitic caricatures, would you be able to see the problem?

Your anti-Muslim hate-filled rhetoric is regurgitated right-wing propaganda.

I'm done talking to you. It's too much work having to explain the fucking obvious in every single post. I will leave you to resume your fight freedom and democracy by drawing crude racist cartoons which will hopefully keep the Death Cult at bay for another day.

[braddy]

56. Judaism is tiny, and has a race element, what race is Islam?, and who is the girl afraid of?

Tell me again who the girl is living in terror of?

[trotsky]

27. So a death threat is OK?

Only when someone is actually killed will you start worrying about this?

[CrawlingChaos]

34. Not really much of a threat, eh?

You don't suppose the whole "threat" is overblown, do you? Unless cartoonists have more ninja training than I realized.

I mean, I have a lot of Muslim neighbors and they seem like really nice people, but maybe I should be more scared?

Or maybe I should go out of my way to make them feel bad by mocking their religion in the most sneering, offensive way possible. Sound like a super idea to you?

[trotsky]

38. Naw, not much of a threat at all, eh?

http://www.zimbio.com/Kurt+Westergaard/articles/f82SjdzAPZS/Danish+Artist+Kurt+Westergaard+Nearly+Killed

That guy wasn't ACTUALLY killed so I guess we shouldn't be concerned. After all, according to you, he probably would have deserved it anyway since he mocked someone's religion. Clearly worthy of the death penalty. Shall we bring back blasphemy laws to make sure no one's religion gets mocked in a sneering, offensive way?

[CrawlingChaos]

44. He wasn't even harmed

And what a prize he is too - an immigrant-hating right-winger who had been publishing very hateful depictions of Muslims. Here's an incredible detail for you: when the incident occurred, he ran and locked himself in the panic room and left his 5 year old granddaughter alone in the house. Let me repeat - he got his own sorry ass to safety and left his 5-year old granddaughter behind to fend for herself with an axe-wielding intruder.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/6924522/Somali-axeman-who-tried-to-murder-Danish-cartoonist-linked-to-al-Qaeda.html

Just thought you should get to know the heroic individual who inspired the creation of Draw Mohammed Day.

This is not to suggest that it's ever excusable for anyone to attack anyone - just that the alleged threat is absurdly overblown (to justify harassment of Muslims) and almost always presented without context.

[trotsky]

46. Actually, that's exactly what you've been saying this whole time.

That if someone upsets someone else by treating their religion irreverently or mockingly, well, they deserve what's coming to them. Why else would you try to justify it by describing what a jerk the guy was?

Damn. Scary shit.

[CrawlingChaos]

47. Wow, you are grasping at straws that aren't even there

I never said anything like that. I emphatically stated that no physical attack is ever justified. I very clearly stated that I was attempting to add some context, which is almost always missing from these Muslim-bashing stories.

Sad how you have to make things up like that.

[trotsky]

48. Now I'm making up what you've posted?

The character of the person being threatened, attacked, or murdered is not relevant here. There was no point bringing it up except to justify the violence.

And you yourself have fanned the flames, adding to the outrage over... a cartoon. That's it. A cartoon.

[CrawlingChaos]

51. You're displaying the desperation of someone in an indefensible position

Hate can take the form of a cartoon.

[trotsky]

52. Keep repeating that, maybe it will become true!

You are on the side of censorship and restrictions on free speech.

THAT'S indefensible.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. No - if by "the big three" you mean the big 3 Middle Eastern ones

(worldwide, several religions are 'bigger' than Judaism). Christianity recognises Jewish prophets. You know, using the Old Testament? Reading it out in church? Putting "who spake by the Prophets" in the Nicene Creed?

I just thought it worth putting one bit of education into this thread so that it isn't a pure mess of "you're a poopyhead" squabbling.

[Silent3]

28. Stupid "Why are you doing that instead of this other important thing?" false dilemma

Last edited Mon May 21, 2012, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

@:-D>

There. That took less than two seconds. I'm now free to fight as many other battles as I choose to fight.

Another false dilemma: That one has to think the a huge majority of Muslims would kill over these drawings to be offended by those who do kill or threaten to kill. That there is a vocal minority is more than enough reason to protest, especially since that peaceful majority appear to tolerate their own violent minority better than they tolerate non-Muslims who would dare draw Mohammed.