Religion
Related: About this forumSo was the USA founded on Christian principles or Jewish principles? I'm confused.
"The U.S. Congress officially recognized the Noahide Laws in legislation which was passed by both houses. Congress and the President of the United States, George Bush, indicated in Public Law 102-14, 102nd Congress, that the United States of America was founded upon the Seven Universal Laws of Noah, and that these Laws have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization. They also acknowledged that the Seven Laws of Noah are the foundation upon which civilization stands and that recent weakening of these principles threaten the fabric of civilized society, and that justified preoccupation in educating the Citizens of the United States of America and future generations is needed. For this purpose, this Public Law designated March 26, 1991 as Education Day, U.S.A. "
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7lawcomm.html
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laconicsax
(14,860 posts)The seven laws are:
1. Create courts.
2. No idolatry
3. No blasphemy
4. No sexual immorality (includes sex with a menstruating woman and interfaith marriage)
5. No murder
6. No theft
7. No butchering an animal that's still alive.
longship
(40,416 posts)You don't. In these United States it's our unalienable right to blaspheme. If you don't agree with that, fuck you, you're wrong.
Simply stated.
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Meant it as a diatribe to one of the numbered items you listed. BTW, one that is trying to raise its ugly head in the 21st century, in both Europe and the US, but is likely law in Islamic countries, some of for which prescribe the death penalty.
To me, this is a very bad thing if it ever got hold in law here.
That's why, among many other reasons, I reserve respect for religion. I cannot respect any argument as long as it's made on religious terms, devoid of facts.
Sorry, about my atheist diatribe, reaction. I took your post as a good one.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Which civilization?
But it is true... these basic laws have been important to societies LONG BEFORE the Jews existed and in many civilizations who had (have) never even heard of Jews or the Middle East. Assigning the Jewish version of these things more relevance than the millions of other instances of these very same ideas seems pretty small minded. There are civilizations older than recorded history, and the Middle East and Europe are not the only civilizations on Earth, y'know.
And I should mention that a Christian Nation in 1776 was one with a King (and his family), appointed by god himself to rule. The Founding Fathers utterly rejected the idea of a "Christian Nation" and started a government by and of the people. The exact opposite of a Christian Nation.
Response to FLyellowdog (Original post)
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FLyellowdog
(4,276 posts)Last edited Mon May 21, 2012, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)
Did this just slip by the christian community back then? Just askin' Oh, well. Makes no real difference to me. I just found it interesting. Thanks for all the input.
Meant to say....I just DON'T recall....
Sorry
ConditionOfAnonymity
(3 posts)Noahide laws
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Noahide Laws)
The rainbow is the modern symbol of the Noahide Movement, recalling the rainbow that appeared after the Great Flood of the Bible.
The Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח? Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach) form the major part of the Noachide Laws, or Noahide Code.[1] This code is a set of moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God[2] as a binding set of laws for the "children of Noah" – that is, all of humankind.[3][4] According to religious Judaism, any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile, and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous.[5][6] Adherents are often called "B'nei Noach" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.[citation needed]
The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are[7]
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law
The Noachide Laws comprise the six laws which were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden, according to the Talmud's interpretation of Gen 2:16,[8] and a seventh one, which was added after the Flood of Noah. Later, at the Revelation at Sinai, the Seven Laws of Noah were re-given to humanity and embedded in the 613 Laws given to the Children of Israel along with the Ten Commandments, which are part of, and not separate from, the 613 mitzvot. These laws are derived from the Torah. According to religious Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. At the same time, at Mount Sinai, the Children of Israel were given the obligation to teach other nations the embedded Noachide Laws.[citation needed] These laws also affect Jewish law in a number of ways.
While some Jewish organizations, such as Chabad have worked to promote the observance of the Noachide laws, there are no figures for how many actually do.
........Punishment
The Talmud laid down the statutory punishment for transgressing any one of the Seven Laws of Noah (but not other parts of the Noahide code) as capital punishment [24] by decapitation, which is considered one of the lightest[25] of the four modes of execution of criminals. According to some opinions, punishment is the same whether the individual transgresses with knowledge of the law or is ignorant of the law.[26]
ConditionOfAnonymity
(3 posts)The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are[7]
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law
.................................................................................................................
and as far as Idolatry goes in the perverted talmud by believing in Jesus is the only form of idolatry "the" the jews consider to be idolatry to us goyim, for the jews them selves are exempt from the Noahide Laws. there are in fact more than a few in the newly established sanhedrin who are atheists, and who in fact believe in nothing more than them selves. I in fact have spoken with a few through e-mails and have been told by them. if anyone who is interested in digging into this, please feel free to contact me.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)While those people are curious, do they really deserve decapitation?
Or do they deserve a different fate, based on that shellfish thing?
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)daaron
(763 posts)I've never actually spoken with an ultra-orthodox Jewish person, only because there's no visible community in my area. I have however spoken with innumerable Jews and jews (religious and ethnic) and for a few years pursued a religious understanding of Judaism and worked closely with observant Chassidic Jews. Those I know are as liberal as you and I on social issues. As for Mosaic law - all that stuff about sacrifices and those arcane laws about clothing and sexual repression are an embarrassment, and nobody takes them even sort of seriously - except Jewish fundamentalists, who, like all fundamentalists, feel themselves exempt from reason.
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)daaron
(763 posts)you pile the apocrypha on, Kabbalah and all, as the ultras are wont to do. Positively stultifying.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...by banning bacon.
There was serious debate amongst early Christians as to whether or not they were required to follow Jewish law. Unsurprisingly, they concluded they didn't have to, and then made up some patently ridiculous explanation after the fact.
"Well, God made that covenant with the Jews, right. Well, we aren't the Jews, so we aren't required to follow those rules."
"So, you're saying God has separate moralities for different groups of people."
"Uh. Yeah."
"I thought universal morality came from God..."
"HERETIC! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!"
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)In the 102nd House, HJ RES 104 "Passed without objection" on 3/5/1991. It strikes me as 20 years too late to object to the designation of March 26, 1991 as "Education Day" -- but of course on this point we shall defer to the loudest in our midst. So here is the Congressional Record of the exciting House discussion at H1387, for those who enjoy reading such matters:
The Clerk read the title of the joint resolution.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman from Ohio?
Mr. RIDGE. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, I do so simply to acknowledge the work of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Michel] who is the chief proponent of this legislation, and to yield to the gentleman from New York [Mr. Gilman].
(Mr. GILMAN asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
[Page: H1388]
Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in strong support of House Joint Resolution 104 designating March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.', and I commend my colleagues, our distinguished minority leader, Mr. Michel and our distinguished majority leader, Mr. Gephardt for introducing this measure.
Mr. Speaker, the future of our Nation, our very way of life, and our democratic system of government is dependent on a highly educated citizenry, a citizenry that must be fully equipped to compete with other nations of the world. We must nurture our desire for learning and to motivate students and teachers to assure that we maintain leadership to continue our American democracy.
The quality of education is essential to our Americna heritage of cultural and political freedom. Our schools are instrumental in providing our scientific and technical competence. Education holds the key to the future. By designating March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.' we will call the attention of the American people to the necessity of improving our educational system, which pomotes good moral and ethical.
House Joint Resolution 104 also calls attention to the Lubavitch movement, which promotes many of our ethical values and principles upon which the educational system of our great Nation was founded.
Accordingly, Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to join in supporting this resolution.
Mr. MICHEL. Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to say a few words about House Joint Resolution 104, requesting the President to designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'
Along with the distinguished majority leader, Richard Gephardt, I am sponsoring this resolution. The majority leader and I joined forces 2 years ago, and I am happy to be a part of this worthy venture today.
As I said last year, I think it is fitting that the majority and the minority leaders cosponsor such a resolution. Education is an issue that transcends partisan consideration.
Today, we are seeing a rebirth of the time-honored ideal of progress through education. This resolution draws to the attention of the American people the importance of education to our country. Education is the cornerstone to maintaining our quality of life and national security and is the basis upon which this country will rise to meet the challenges of the future.
March 26 also happens to be the 89th birthday of the internationally renowned and respected religious leader, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.
It is only fitting that we pay tribute to this great educator as 1991 marks the Bebbe's 90th year of his ascension to the world leadership of the Lubavitch movement. The Lubavitch movement actively promotes educational programs at more than 150 centers in the United States and many more worldwide.
The Lubavitch movement, founded in the 18th century, has as its philosophical foundation three basic elements: wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.
It is, therefore, appropriate that the movement, under the inspirational leadership of the man called the Rebbe, has been so active in promoting education.
Looking over my remarks from last year, I came upon a fact I want to share with you today.
The movement which the Rebbe heads takes its name from the Russian city, Lubavitch, which, translated into English means, city of love.
In the final analysis it is love of one's religious heritage, love of learning--that is at the heart of the Lubavitch movement and at the heart of this resolution.
I am pleased once again to honor a great man and to support such a noble idea.
Mr. RIDGE. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my reservation of objection.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman from Ohio?
There was no objection.
The Clerk read the joint resolution, as follows:
H.J. Res. 104
Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of eithical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;
Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;
Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;
Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;
Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;
Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;
Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;
Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe,' this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving,' the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and
Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.
The joint resolution was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, was read the third time, and passed, and a motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
FLyellowdog
(4,276 posts)just wondering how on the one hand people will argue the USA was founded on christian principles (which comes up soooooo often nowadays) and then on the other have a congress that said it was founded on jewish principles. The two don't seem to go together to me. Merely an observation...
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)People who insist that the US was founded on Christian principles are morons who have zero understanding of history and very little understanding of Christianity.
