Religion
Related: About this forumChinese mass-indoctrination camps evoke Cultural Revolution
From the article:
Do you obey Chinese law or Sharia? instructors asked. Do you understand why religion is dangerous?
To read more:
https://www.apnews.com/0db368402a214799921a05743b7acff7
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)That's my answer. Or forced religious training for Native American children. Or forced conversion in many places and at many times. Would you like more examples? I can provide them.
We do not live in China.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)is a problem.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)are different. I am tolerant of religious people worshiping whatever deities they wish. I am intolerant of any attempts they might make to foist their beliefs off on others.
As I stated earlier, I do not live in China, nor do I study China to any great degree. I live in this country, which I have studied. It has been highly intolerant of non-Christian beliefs in the past, and is still intolerant of them today.
I can tolerate any sort of belief, because beliefs of others have no effect on me. I do not, however, tolerate any actions by anyone which violate the rights of others to believe or disbelieve as they choose or can.
Actions. Beliefs are not actions. They are simply thoughts. I care about actions. My tolerance ends when actions based on beliefs injure people who do not believe the same in any way.
edhopper
(33,570 posts)Not saying the camps are good. But he's not wrong, just saying.
In America I prefer American Law from that of the Christian Taliban we have here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)edhopper
(33,570 posts)Christian Law over our Government Laws.
Or that there are dangerous Muslim ideologies?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Voltaire2
(13,009 posts)Instead of clearly answering a question asked to clarify a prior statement you reply cryptically, or deflect, or refuse to answer at all, or insult the questioner.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And I understand the need to say :what about..." in matters like this, but this particular article concerns an avowedly atheist government persecuting religious and painting that persecution with the popular label "terrorism".
Mariana
(14,854 posts)that has been perpetrated by religious extremists in the area?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)They are actively hostile to religion and are punishing believers while calling it a response to terrorism. What do you think Tibetans call Chinese policy toward Tibet?
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Why are you trying to hijack your own thread?
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)according to some few. Any religion. It matters not what followers of a religion do. Religion is sacred and not to be challenged. That's what is being promoted here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If you are in favor of this example of the Chinese persecuting theists, make that point. If you are opposed, make that point.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)Your replies do not answer the questions. Intolerance of the bad behavior of religious people is justified.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)can also be called fighting for survival on the part of a marginalized and oppressed group. Just one of the religious groups that are victimized by the Chinese rulers.
Or are you siding with the Chinese on this one?
Mariana
(14,854 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The question accepts the Chinese narrative that this is a fight against terrorism, rather than the standard persecution of a religion by the Chinese Communists.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)that hundreds have been killed by religious extremists. What do you call it when religious extremists kill hundreds of people?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I had no idea the Xinjiang separatist movement and the dozens of terrorist attacks it has carried out over the past twenty years were total fabrications. Thanks for enlightening us.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Neither it nor sharia are a system of laws I would want to live under.
What about you, gil?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Given that this was said:
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But they pose no threat to atheism, and it isn't because of atheism that they are being put into education camps.
I answered your question. Now answer mine. It is the absolute very least you could do - if you value dialog as you claim.
Or perhaps your heart is so full of hatred and anger that you won't.
Your call, gil.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Interesting how that works.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And, as I have said numerous times in this group, I believe in a far greater separation of church and state. How many times should I repeat this? Should I make it my signature line?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The Chinese government has a much greater separation of church and state than we do, I guess. Are you saying you'd prefer to live under their laws then?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I do not know anyone in Xinjiang. But I do know several people who DO know people there.
My ex-wife, who is Chinese, for one.
And I have a number of Tibetan acquaintances/friends - in Nepal and the US.
A few people in Yunnan - a restaurant owner in Kunming, a "motel' owner in Dali and a taxi driver in Lijiang.... and I know a few people in Chengdu.
These people know what is going on despite the difficulty of getting information. These events, and all that has gone before, should be a warning to us.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)no matter the ideology or beliefs, is a huge issue.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Earlier this evening, I tried to follow the discussion between you, MM and a few others... but could not..
So I decided to add what meager input I could.
I often read post in the religion group but almost never comment..
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am glad you read and hope that you feel inspired to post.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Although that message is certainly going to be lost on some
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Yes, that type of indoctrination is an issue, and as the Russian experience shows, it did not work.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Like the sort which produced the response to begin with.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)It is another to say Islam IS terrorism. It seems that the Chinese are in danger of making the very same mistake the US has made.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)They also have some very radical populations as neighbors. Its not really fair to judge them by our standards. Image how our system would fare under the same circumstances. We take one large attack and we now have a gulag and spend trillions on security, despite having the luxury of geographical isolation.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)to individual terror. But state terror is terrorism on a larger scale, and the current Chinese leaders are engaging in it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)And exactly what authoritarianism is.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am certain that they will appreciate the difference.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)YMMV
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Interesting.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Your comments are no better than those who make think of the children arguments as justification for puritanical public policies. The best you can say about it is its intellectually bankrupt, not unlike your last round of strawman horseshit.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I understand.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)MineralMan
(146,286 posts)Please explain.