Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:58 PM May 2018

Good news: Europe: Not as secular as you think

From the article:

A new survey by the Pew Research Center looks past the headlines that worry the established churches to ask what Western Europeans think about religion. The results, issued Tuesday (May 29), suggest a more nuanced picture.

Despite the region’s widespread secularization, 71 percent of the 24,599 adults Pew surveyed in 15 countries still identify as Christians, even if only 22 percent say they attend church at least once a month.


To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2018/05/29/not-so-secular-survey-finds-a-large-group-of-nonpracticing-christians-in-europe/

What can I say?

What should I say?

What does thousands of years of history show us?
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Good news: Europe: Not as secular as you think (Original Post) guillaumeb May 2018 OP
The "Good news" depiction is a matter of opinion Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #1
Indeed, it is a matter of opinion. guillaumeb May 2018 #2
Cognitive dissonance Cartoonist May 2018 #3
Gil's link describes them as "nonpracticing Christians". Mariana May 2018 #6
Lucky kids Cartoonist May 2018 #7
Yeah, I have to laugh that gil labels this "good news." trotsky May 2018 #8
How unusual. Voltaire2 May 2018 #10
I too laughed, guillaumeb May 2018 #19
From the article: guillaumeb May 2018 #11
His own source says "nones" in the US are more religious than most Christians in Western Europe Major Nikon May 2018 #31
Islam is growing by leaps and bounds samir.g May 2018 #4
The fastest growing religion. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #12
Not that much, in absolute terms muriel_volestrangler Jun 2018 #36
history shows 100s of millions tortured and murdered by religious people possibly msongs May 2018 #5
An incredible, if unverifiable, claim. guillaumeb May 2018 #13
I am disturbed that you think LESS secularism is a GOOD thing. trotsky May 2018 #9
So in your world, the choice is secularism or theocracy? guillaumeb May 2018 #14
What is the 3rd choice? Major Nikon May 2018 #16
How about guillaumeb May 2018 #18
Sounds like...Wait for it.... Major Nikon May 2018 #20
Should I respect creationist beliefs? Voltaire2 May 2018 #22
Or Scientology, FLDS, The Church of Euthanasia Major Nikon May 2018 #26
I don't respect the beliefs and choices of Donald Trump or Roseanne Barr. trotsky May 2018 #23
So Warren Jeffs is a political prisonor for his religions beliefs? Cuthbert Allgood May 2018 #28
So, you mean secularism. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #30
Yes, those are the choices gil. trotsky May 2018 #24
Good news: Europe: More secular than some think Major Nikon May 2018 #15
Did you read this part? guillaumeb May 2018 #17
The first part is a repeat of the OP. The second part underscores post #15 Major Nikon May 2018 #21
Yet ANOTHER thread blows up in his face. trotsky May 2018 #25
The funniest part is once again his own source provides all the information needed Major Nikon May 2018 #29
Did you read what you responded to? Lordquinton Jun 2018 #33
Those words mean something different when Gil reads them. nt. Mariana Jun 2018 #34
This is why Tom Lerher retired Lordquinton Jun 2018 #35
I don't think this is good news. SamKnause May 2018 #27
We disagree. guillaumeb May 2018 #32

Cartoonist

(7,314 posts)
3. Cognitive dissonance
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:23 PM
May 2018

even if only 22 percent say they attend church at least once a month.

Pretty impressive number, not. That's all they can manage after 2000 years?

. . . still identify as Christians.

But are they real Christians?

Mariana

(14,854 posts)
6. Gil's link describes them as "nonpracticing Christians".
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:41 PM
May 2018

As far as I'm concerned, if they say they're Christian, they're Christian, regardless of whether some survey taker or analyst thinks they actually practice Christianity.

However, there is some excellent news here. If so few are going to church regularly, they probably aren't dragging their kids there to be indoctrinated week after week. That's good news for the children who are being spared that experience.

Cartoonist

(7,314 posts)
7. Lucky kids
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:58 PM
May 2018

That's why republicans, calling themselves Christians, are trying to put god back in school.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
8. Yeah, I have to laugh that gil labels this "good news."
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:09 PM
May 2018

He obviously didn't read it very closely.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
11. From the article:
Wed May 30, 2018, 05:25 PM
May 2018
Some 87 percent raise their children as Christians, not that far behind the 97 percent of churchgoers who do so, the 168-page survey said.


So your hope, as expressed in your response, is not supported by the survey.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
31. His own source says "nones" in the US are more religious than most Christians in Western Europe
Thu May 31, 2018, 10:03 AM
May 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=286246

It also says only 14% of Christians in Western Europe say religion is very important to them, compared to almost 70% of US Christians.

People in Western Europe still get married in churches, but nobody believes the hocus pocus anymore.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,295 posts)
36. Not that much, in absolute terms
Sat Jun 2, 2018, 12:29 PM
Jun 2018

In this survey, the total for all religions apart from Christianity (median of all countries) was 5% , so as well as Muslim, that's Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Judaism (and maybe one or 2 others).

Some specific Muslim figures:
France 7.5%
Belgium 7%
Netherlands 6%
Germany 5%
UK 4.8%
Italy 3.7%

compared to the median 8% 'atheist' and 13% "nothing in particular" inside the 24% "religiously unaffiliated" for Europe.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
9. I am disturbed that you think LESS secularism is a GOOD thing.
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:13 PM
May 2018

Would you rather have theocracy?

Fortunately that's only your spin. Europe's Christians are on par with the United State's "nones" in terms of their religious beliefs.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2018/may/pew-western-europe-christians-religious-practice-us-nones.html

Equally striking is how similarly religious nones in the United States and Christians in Western Europe match up:

Only 27 percent of American nones say they believe in God with absolute certainty; only 23 percent of Western European Christians say the same.
Only 13 percent of American nones say religion is “very important” in their lives; only 14 percent of Western European Christians say the same.
Only 20 percent of American nones say they pray daily; only 18 percent of Western European Christians say the same.

“By some of these standard measures of religious commitment,” stated Pew researchers, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany and the UK.”


That IS good news. We agree!

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
20. Sounds like...Wait for it....
Thu May 31, 2018, 12:43 AM
May 2018

.
.
.
Secularism!

Not a 3rd choice, though, so you failed to provide an answer that wasn't a non-sequitur. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,915 posts)
28. So Warren Jeffs is a political prisonor for his religions beliefs?
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:31 AM
May 2018

I mean, according to your standard, I have to respect his religious right to force underage girls into marriage with them and subsequently rape them. GOOD NEWS.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
15. Good news: Europe: More secular than some think
Wed May 30, 2018, 07:38 PM
May 2018
Western Europeans are less religious than Americans

The vast majority of adults in the United States, like the majority of Western Europeans, continue to identify as Christian (71%). But on both sides of the Atlantic, growing numbers of people say they are religiously unaffiliated (i.e., atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular”). About a quarter of Americans (23%, as of 2014) fit this description, comparable to the shares of “nones” in the UK (23%) and Germany (24%).

Yet Americans, overall, are considerably more religious than Western Europeans. Half of Americans (53%) say religion is “very important” in their lives, compared with a median of just 11% of adults across Western Europe. Among Christians, the gap is even bigger – two-thirds of U.S. Christians (68%) say religion is very important to them, compared with a median of 14% of Christians in the 15 countries surveyed across Western Europe. But even American “nones” are more religious than their European counterparts. While one-in-eight unaffiliated U.S. adults (13%) say religion is very important in their lives, hardly any Western European “nones” (median of 1%) share that sentiment.

Similar patterns are seen on belief in God, attendance at religious services and prayer. In fact, by some of these standard measures of religious commitment, American “nones” are as religious as — or even more religious than — Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany and the UK.

From the same study.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
17. Did you read this part?
Wed May 30, 2018, 08:49 PM
May 2018
The vast majority of adults in the United States, like the majority of Western Europeans, continue to identify as Christian (71%).


Or this?

Similar patterns are seen on belief in God, attendance at religious services and prayer. In fact, by some of these standard measures of religious commitment, American “nones” are as religious as — or even more religious than — Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany and the UK.



Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
21. The first part is a repeat of the OP. The second part underscores post #15
Thu May 31, 2018, 12:50 AM
May 2018

So thanks for being both redundant and self-contradictory all in the same post. You should be commended for it.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
29. The funniest part is once again his own source provides all the information needed
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:43 AM
May 2018

Yet when faced with this information, the best reply he can come up with is asking me if I read the very section I posted that destroys his claim.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
33. Did you read what you responded to?
Fri Jun 1, 2018, 12:20 AM
Jun 2018

The part where he quoted and highlighted the passage you quoted back at him?

That's the most hilarious thing I've read here in a loong time

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Good news: Europe: Not as...