Religion
Related: About this forumShould Hate Speech Be Outlawed?
The Harm in Hate Speech
by Jeremy Waldron
Harvard University Press, 292 pp., $26.95
A Ku Klux Klan rally in Hico, Texas, 1990 (Carl De Keyzer/Magnum Photos)
June 7, 2012
John Paul Stevens
In The Harm in Hate Speech, Jeremy Waldron discusses a loosely defined category of expression that he addressed in a review of Anthony Lewiss book Freedom for the Thought That We Hate in The New York Review in 2008, and in the Oliver Wendell Holmes Lectures at Harvard University in 2009. Although his references to Justice Holmes in this book are not exactly flatteringWaldron writes that at one time or another [Holmes] took both sides on most free speech issues, and that Holmess judgment that criticizing the military was comparable to shouting Fire! in a crowded theater is preposterousin her introduction of Waldron at the Holmes Lectures, Harvard Law School Dean Martha Minow praised Waldron as one of the two or three greatest legal philosophers of our time. That high praise also applies to one of Waldrons former teachers, Ronald Dworkin, who has criticized Waldrons writing about hate speech.
- snip -
After noting the variation in the scope of hate speech regulations in other countries, the books first chapter, Approaching Hate Speech, describes only in broad strokes the kind of speech about which Waldron is concerned:
The use of words which are deliberately abusive and/or insulting and/or threatening and/or demeaning directed at members of vulnerable minorities, calculated to stir up hatred against them.
- snip -
Thus, instead of stating a general proposition that he either supports or opposes, Waldron begins by providing the reader with the facts of what may well have been an actual incident in New Jersey. A Muslim man, walking with his two children, turns a corner on a public street and is unexpectedly confronted with a sign saying: Muslims and 9/11! Dont serve them, dont speak to them, and dont let them in. The father is not sure how to respond to his childrens questions about that message, or other signs expressing hostility to Muslims. Waldron describes those signs
loosely as hate speech, putting them in the same category as racist graffiti, burning crosses, and earlier generations of signage that sought to drive Jews out of fashionable areas in Florida with postings like Jews and Dogs Prohibited.
That example of anti-Muslim speech is important for two reasons. First, it has nothing to do with violence. The speaker has not threatened anyone, and there is no suggestion that the message will provoke a violent response by any of its targets or violent attacks against Muslims by those who sympathize with the views of the speaker. Thus, most of our Supreme Court opinions concerning the First Amendment protection for speech that may lead to violence are simply inapplicable to Waldrons thesis that government should regulate speech of this kind. Second, the principal reason why Waldron believes such regulation would be desirable is not just to protect the targets of hate speech from offense. Rather it is to protect the inclusive character of a society that should respect the dignity of all of its members.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/07/should-hate-speech-be-outlawed/?page=1
Long, worthwhile book review by the retired Supreme Court Justice.
lookingfortruth
(263 posts)With that gift we must accept the bad aspect with all the good it does allow. What we need to do as a society is educate ourselves and future generations so that when Hate Speech is heard they know how to handle it.
We cannot govern the heart nor the mind unfortunately we will have people that will speak and believe hateful things.
Educating people is really the only tool to combat hate speech effectively.
My Humble Opinion
Tumbulu
(6,268 posts)to incite violence or attack vulnerable groups of people.
msongs
(67,361 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Anybody here said that?
dimbear
(6,271 posts)The luminary behind this liberalization: David Duke.
The Klan still makes this distinction: "There are good Catholics, and bad Catholics."
rug
(82,333 posts)And some cannot.
Tumbulu
(6,268 posts)Period. I cannot believe that it is allowed.
How Rush Limbaugh is allowed on public airwaves is also simply unbelievable.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Right-wingers here in the U.S. have so much power that we can't force their haters off the air. Like it or not, we have to deal with Rush Limbaugh, Bill Donahue, Tony Perkins, Michael Savage, etc. They've got big microphones, and forcing them off the air is next to impossible (though on the bright side, Glenn Beck is no longer on TV, and Limbaugh got a multi-million-dollar kick in the nuts over his remarks on Sandra Fluke and women and general.)
But the success of our campaigns against Beck, and to a lesser extent, against Limbaugh, show that we have to loudly challenge the haters, and make it clear than when they shoot off their mouths, they're going to get blowback.
Omniscientone
(12 posts)No
westerebus
(2,976 posts)What comes next is the book burning.
Followed closely by the people burning.
Because just who gets to decide what is and is not "Hate Speech"?
Depending on who get to decide, the next stop on this slippery slope could be "Blasphemy" laws.
Challenge it, yes, ostracize those who spread it, but don't outlaw it.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)As a society, we should shun those that do advance hate speech, but they should be silenced through reason, not through legislation.
Tumbulu
(6,268 posts)of the public airwaves for this?
I think that one should be free to speak in public, but to force me a taxpayer to pay for hate speech to be broadcast is not an obligation I feel is appropriate.
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)They got Capone on tax fraud (or was it tax evasion), outlaw hate speech and they can finally get the people who covered up for serial child rapists.
rug
(82,333 posts)laconicsax
(14,860 posts)There'd be plenty of other homophobic convicts for the Bishops to commiserate with.
rug
(82,333 posts)laconicsax
(14,860 posts)Jim__
(14,063 posts)I'm not sure of the answer to that question. If democracy can work, we can trust that most people can identify nonsense when they hear it. If people can't be trusted to do that, can they really be trusted with the power to govern themselves?
My answer is that if the people can be trusted with the vote, then they can be trusted to deal with hate speech.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The only thing it has going for it is that it's better than all the other systems we've tried so far.
As to your point about most people being able to identify nonsense when they hear it, GW Bush actually got a bigger percentage of the vote in 2004 than he did in 2000.
Any questions?
Edited for speling.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)And what do we mean by "work"? A man with one leg can get around on crutches. They work, but a good prosthesis may work a lot better, or a wheelchair.
And do we have a true democracy?
Nihil
(13,508 posts)The beloved 1st Amendment over-rules any common sense laws regarding
discrimination & bigotry so I can't see how the two sides could be reconciled
in your country.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You might try educating yourself a bit better about our laws before you say such silly things.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)You might want to bear in mind that we were brought up in different
frames of reference and that my previous comment is simply a statement
of my own opinion in response to a question before getting on your
high horse about "educating yourself".
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)and displayed no nuance or "perspective" whatsoever.
You said: "The beloved 1st Amendment over-rules any common sense laws regarding discrimination & bigotry." No, it doesn't. The 1st Amendment doesn't overrule laws making it illegal for a restaurant to refuse to serve blacks, or for a hotel to refuse to rent to Hispanics, or for a business to fire someone because they're a woman. I could give you a dozen more examples just to start. That's not a matter of my opinion being different than yours, it's a matter of fact.
Again, you might want to educate yourself before you go around mocking other people's laws.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)The 1st amendment ("Congress shall make no law ... or abridging the freedom of speech, ..."
clashes with the concept of regulating "hate speech". (Edited as missed out a word)
There was no prior reference to "refusing to serve blacks", "renting to Hispanics",
"firing someone because they're a woman", or other diversionary bullshit that you
chose to introduce.
Your inability to read in context suggests that you are the uneducated one.
Finally, if you consider that noting a frequently fanatical defence of the 1st Amendment
as being *mocked* by the word "beloved" or consider my use of "common sense"
(previously explained as a difference of perspective due to different cultures) as
*mocking* then off you go - "bless your heart" as they say ...
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)In the U.S. almost all hate crime laws are measured against the First Amendment. I'm not sure but I think the UK standard is unwritten and based in common law. And then it must be measured against the EU human rights legislation. Despite the unclarity in US speech jurisprudence, it seems to me the European model has a lot more obstacles to a clear standard.