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Cattledog

(5,897 posts)
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:40 PM Jan 2020

Why Do People Believe in Hell?

Evangelicals love the idea of hell.

No truly accomplished New Testament scholar, for instance, believes that later Christianity’s opulent mythology of God’s eternal torture chamber is clearly present in the scriptural texts. It’s entirely absent from St. Paul’s writings; the only eschatological fire he ever mentions brings salvation to those whom it tries (1 Corinthians 3:15). Neither is it found in the other New Testament epistles, or in any extant documents (like the Didache) from the earliest post-apostolic period. There are a few terrible, surreal, allegorical images of judgment in the Book of Revelation, but nothing that, properly read, yields a clear doctrine of eternal torment. Even the frightening language used by Jesus in the Gospels, when read in the original Greek, fails to deliver the infernal dogmas we casually assume to be there.

On the other hand, many New Testament passages seem — and not metaphorically — to promise the eventual salvation of everyone. For example: “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.” (Romans 5:18) Or: “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:22) Or: “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2) (Or: John 13:32; Romans 11:32; 1 Timothy 2:3-6; 4:10; Titus 2:11; and others.)


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/opinion/sunday/christianity-religion-hell-bible.html
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Why Do People Believe in Hell? (Original Post) Cattledog Jan 2020 OP
In my view, hell is a metaphor for a separation from the Creator. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #1
That's the lame ass "it's not that bad" hell. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #5
No, it the assertion that hell, and sin, guillaumeb Jan 2020 #6
I swear you've claimed that your gods are everywhere. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #8
It is a separation, an apartness. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #12
So your gods are not everywhere. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #17
Your statement bears no relation to what I wrote. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #20
So gods are not part of consciousness? Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #23
As I said, in my view hell is a state of being. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #24
And you are also claiming that your gods are everywhere? Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #25
The Creator is inseparable from the creation. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #26
But these hell inhabitants are separate from your gods. Voltaire2 Jan 2020 #29
They are spiritually "apart" from the Creator. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #37
I'd rather laugh with the sinners edhopper Jan 2020 #9
Oh yeah that's how you avoid the "god sends people to hell" problem... trotsky Jan 2020 #14
I'm okay with the separation Cartoonist Jan 2020 #15
Consider sin as another word for behaving unjustly toward others. eom guillaumeb Jan 2020 #16
I've only done that a few times Cartoonist Jan 2020 #18
A fantastic image. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #21
Lol😂 dewsgirl Jan 2020 #27
That is the Reform Jewish interpretation Cary Jan 2020 #31
I had no idea. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #38
It just meant as information Cary Jan 2020 #39
Regarding the Bible as mainly metaphor, guillaumeb Jan 2020 #40
if they literally followed the Bible they'd be nasty, vindictive slugs. Cary Jan 2020 #41
And I feel that there are no true literalists. eom guillaumeb Jan 2020 #45
How about where God denied Moses entrance into the promised land Cary Jan 2020 #42
Because they are nuts? we can do it Jan 2020 #2
I was going to say "because I need a fitting place to picture Croney Jan 2020 #3
😂 we can do it Jan 2020 #4
With what we know about Republicans and their supporters, I hope it exists. CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #7
Why do people believe in divinity at all. LakeArenal Jan 2020 #10
Convenient way for the early church to control people TlalocW Jan 2020 #11
The promise of reward or punishment for the controlled behavior Major Nikon Jan 2020 #13
+1 Duppers Jan 2020 #19
Our 'individual Hells' (economic, mental, relationship, environment, etc etc. ARE REAL. JustFiveMoreMinutes Jan 2020 #22
Usually I sigh over people's inability to comprehend metaphor & other literary devices in the Bible. catrose Jan 2020 #28
With metaphor all things are possible Major Nikon Jan 2020 #43
Love it! Metaphorically, of course catrose Jan 2020 #44
It offends evangelicals when people "get away" with things the evangelicals call sins. Thomas Hurt Jan 2020 #30
Authoritarians Cary Jan 2020 #33
I was in an Uber a couple of days ago and a hard core Christian Cary Jan 2020 #32
I think a lot of people love to see others in pain. Srkdqltr Jan 2020 #34
If god is truly infinitely loving and merciful, then even Hitler went to heaven. Binkie The Clown Jan 2020 #35
I do not believe in consciousness after death unblock Jan 2020 #36
Indoctrination, conditioning, repeated lies, brainwashing... NeoGreen Jan 2020 #46

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. In my view, hell is a metaphor for a separation from the Creator.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:42 PM
Jan 2020

And heaven is being one with the Creator.

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
5. That's the lame ass "it's not that bad" hell.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:21 PM
Jan 2020

At least the fire and brimstone folks stand up for what they actually believe.

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
23. So gods are not part of consciousness?
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:07 AM
Jan 2020

I must be dim. I don’t understand how your gods can be everywhere but also not be somewhere specific, as for example your version of hell.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
26. The Creator is inseparable from the creation.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 05:40 PM
Jan 2020

One comes from the other. One is a part of the other. Both together make up what is.

My view.

Now, time for football.

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
29. But these hell inhabitants are separate from your gods.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 05:45 PM
Jan 2020

You do understand it makes no sense at all, right?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. They are spiritually "apart" from the Creator.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 10:43 PM
Jan 2020

And that concludes this debate. Neither of us is trying to convince the other.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. Oh yeah that's how you avoid the "god sends people to hell" problem...
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 04:52 PM
Jan 2020

by saying that the souls burning for eternity chose it for themselves.

neat.

Cartoonist

(7,298 posts)
15. I'm okay with the separation
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

I'm seperated now. So there is absolutely no punishment for my sins? So what did Jesus supposedly die for?

On further thought, I absolutely want to be seperated from that genocidal maniac.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
39. It just meant as information
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 11:26 AM
Jan 2020

I don't believe in proselytizing.

To me the ideas that the Bible is not literally true, that God created people and put a little bit of Herself in everyones' heart and therefore serving people is serving God, and that heaven is being closer to the creator makes sense.

If God is literally an all knowing, all powerful being who told his faithful servant Abraham to take his only beloved son Isaac up to the mountain to bind him and murder him (among many other nasty stories) then I dunno. It has to be a metaphor.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
40. Regarding the Bible as mainly metaphor,
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 12:56 PM
Jan 2020

look at the creation story, and the meaning of the names Adam and Eve.

Adam means red, and earth.

Eve means life, and living.

From the earth comes life. Science 101.

In my view, the story of Abraham shows obedience to the will of the Creator, and the meaning of asking Abraham to sacrifice his son reinforces the idea of obedience to the will of the Creator.

Even among those Christians who claim to be Biblical literalists, they do not, in fact, literally follow every Biblical passage.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
42. How about where God denied Moses entrance into the promised land
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 02:51 PM
Jan 2020

for hitting a rock too hard?

Moses gave up being the favored son of a Pharoah to lead a wretched mass through the desert for 40 years.

Nice. Wasn't it?

Croney

(4,646 posts)
3. I was going to say "because I need a fitting place to picture
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 01:58 PM
Jan 2020

my ex-husband," but I like your answer better.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
7. With what we know about Republicans and their supporters, I hope it exists.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 02:24 PM
Jan 2020

We've already spent too much time with these weasels.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
10. Why do people believe in divinity at all.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:07 PM
Jan 2020

No evidence at all.

I’m not pointing out Christians. But they certainly wear those shoes.

TlalocW

(15,359 posts)
11. Convenient way for the early church to control people
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 03:32 PM
Jan 2020

Yes, your life sucks. You're hungry, poor, cold, covered in muck while we clergy are doing pretty well, but you shouldn't focus on this life but the rewards you'll have in the next unless you don't do what we tell you this book says you should do, otherwise it's torment worse than what you currently are enduring. Now here's a list of rules we want you to follow - pay special attention to the section on tithing. Oh, and it goes without saying if you don't do this, we'll torture you!

TlalocW

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
13. The promise of reward or punishment for the controlled behavior
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 04:29 PM
Jan 2020

Conveniently unverifiable.

It’s no wonder this nonsense has to be indoctrinated from birth. No sensible adult would fall for that bullshittery.

JustFiveMoreMinutes

(2,133 posts)
22. Our 'individual Hells' (economic, mental, relationship, environment, etc etc. ARE REAL.
Fri Jan 10, 2020, 09:00 PM
Jan 2020

We really DONT need eternal damnation when life has given it to you as physical beings. Sigh.

catrose

(5,050 posts)
28. Usually I sigh over people's inability to comprehend metaphor & other literary devices in the Bible.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 05:45 PM
Jan 2020

But hell--or Sheol--was a literal place, the dump outside Jerusalem that smoldered and burned forever, like a compost heap. Trash included dead bodies with no one to claim them, and it was a horrifying thought, to think that you'd be thrown out with the garbage to burn forever if no one loved you enough to give you a proper burial.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
30. It offends evangelicals when people "get away" with things the evangelicals call sins.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 05:46 PM
Jan 2020

That is why they hate abortion and birth control and welfare.

To the right, people who have sex and are lazy or what have you, should have to suffer getting pregnant and carrying a child to term, catching STDs is the result of being a slut. The poor are all lazy and shiftless and should starve not get welfare.

They think they are God and should enforce punishment on others they see as their lessers.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
32. I was in an Uber a couple of days ago and a hard core Christian
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 06:01 PM
Jan 2020

insisted on lecturing me the whole trip. It seemed to be very important to him that I bend to his fundamentalist nonsense.

Srkdqltr

(6,129 posts)
34. I think a lot of people love to see others in pain.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 06:16 PM
Jan 2020

Either from actual pain or from hurtful words. Telling someone "to go to hell" is a very strong thing to say. Very hurtful.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
35. If god is truly infinitely loving and merciful, then even Hitler went to heaven.
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 06:47 PM
Jan 2020

The problem is that humans just can't accept that as a possibility, so they must invent a place of ultimate revenge.

You would think that any god worth the name would want his "children" to learn by their mistakes. Would any parent who caught their child in a lie or found out that the child had stolen fifty cents from the mother's purse throw the child into the basement and lock them there for the rest of their life? Don't be ridiculous. We try to help our children learn from their mistakes so that they can become better people. Apparently this so-called god doesn't want people to become better. Eternal punishment for a finite crime is nothing more than the human need for vengeance, not the impulse to help. Hell leaves no possibility of learning from mistakes, and is, therefore, petty and vindictive, and is clealry a human invention.

Disclaimer: I don't believe in god or the devil or any kind of eternal reward or punishment. It's all fairy tales and mythology meant to comfort us when scary things go bump in the night.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
36. I do not believe in consciousness after death
Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:06 PM
Jan 2020

So to me, heaven is being remembered favorably and fondly by those you leave behind; hell is being remembered as a rotten person.

NeoGreen

(4,030 posts)
46. Indoctrination, conditioning, repeated lies, brainwashing...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:28 AM
Jan 2020

Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2020, 10:34 AM - Edit history (1)

...the implied threat of eternal conscientious torment... shall I continue?

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