Religion
Related: About this forumBecause it is about Civil Rights.
Ive often wondered, if the violations were complaining about are no big deal, why dont these public officials and critics just agree to stop them? We know from experience that when state/church violations go unchallenged, they create bad precedent and, often, even worse First Amendment violations. Although FFRFs legal staff almost exclusively handles cases involving Establishment Clause violations, we make one exception. That is for violations of the Civil Rights Act.
The Civil Rights Act in relevant part reads: All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation . . . without discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin. (See religion is right there, along with race and color.)
FFRF was contacted by one of our Pennsylvania members, John Wolff, an octogenarian and retired electrical engineer, who was shocked to encounter a church bulletin discount at a local restaurant. Those bearing proof they had been to church that morning are given a regular 10 percent discount by Lost Cajun Kitchen in Columbia, Pa. FFRF Senior Staff Attorney Rebecca Markert wrote not just one, but three letters over the course of a year and a half, in a patient attempt to educate the apparently uneducable restaurant owners.
--snip--
Recently, a few freethinkers have suggested that civil rights violations arent worthy of FFRFs attention, that we should pick our battles, that negative reaction to such complaints makes atheists even more unpopular. So . . . should we blame victims? Empower hecklers with a veto? Would anyone call it trivial if a restaurant rewarded customers for being white with 20 percent off every Sunday brunch?
Ask those who have won landmark Supreme Court cases whether they were popular fights. FFRF and state/church complainants are not pursuing remedy of violations to be popular, or unpopular, for that matter. We are working to uphold essential principles of law that protect us all. Although constitutional law is not undertaken to gain social acceptance, history shows that standing up for ones rights as demonstrated by the civil rights and gay rights movements is actually the surest path toward gaining social acceptance.
John Wolff deserves the support of all freethinkers and all Americans for standing up for civil rights: his, yours and everyones.
http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2012/07/dont-discount-civil-rights-2/
I think the takeaway here is in the second paragraph;
if the violations were complaining about are no big deal, why dont these public officials and critics just agree to stop them?
This is where our common ground is to be found, DU'ers. I hope you will join me there.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)Or for those Biblically untutored, like Rodney King.
Are you walking on by?
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)... It's not as if an atheist couldn't get the discount, either. All he would have to do is pick up a Sunday church bulletin. Stand outside a house of worship and ask a parishioner for one. Or just go in for a second, get one and leave. Many churches would have no problem with that. Perhaps he would have received a discount if he brought in a program from a community concert or high school musical.
There are churches that welcome atheists and in which an atheist might even feel comfortable - Unitarian Universalist congregations, for instance, where attendees are "allowed" to believe whatever they wish.
Maybe Mr. Wolff could even start his own "church," print up a bulletin and bring it in ...
Mr. Wolff, who reportedly hadn't even eaten at the restaurant, should drop the complaint, stop in for a plate of shrimp and gator, have a beer and chill out. We're pretty sure the restaurant wouldn't refuse to serve him based on his non-religion ...
http://www.ydr.com/opinion/ci_21116708/our-take-atheist-raises-shrimpy-issue-over-church
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)would react if a restaurant offered discounts to everyone who presented a Freedom from Religion Foundation poster or pamphlet. Would she or he happily run out and get one to show at the restaurant for a bargain meal? I don't know about non-fundy Christians, but my fundy in-laws wouldnt. Theyd probably burn the restaurant down.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)in several threads on this topic
Did Wolff visit the restaurant and encounter a sign saying (say) "Non-Christians are not welcome" or "We don't serve atheists"
Not exactly:
... Wolff said he was .. considering eating there, but never did ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=34255
Atheist files complaint over restaurant's Sunday promotion
http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/681194_Atheist-files-complaint-over-restaurant-s-Sunday-promotion.html?page=all
I just gave you a youtube of Wolff himself explaining that he managed to fire off a complaint about the restaurant, simply by looking them up on the internet. In fact, since FFRF like to go after these church bulletin discounts, one suspects Wolff was simply trolling the internet, looking for a nearby restaurant offering a church bulletin discount that he could be pizzed about
That's a reason the editorial remarks "Mr. Wolff .. reportedly hadn't even eaten at the restaurant"
Wolff explains in the youtube that he's motivated by his dislike for the religious right
"I did this not out of spite, but out of a feeling against the prevailing self-righteousness that stems from religion ..."
Atheist files complaint over restaurant's Sunday promotion
http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/681194_Atheist-files-complaint-over-restaurant-s-Sunday-promotion.html?page=all
Is the restaurant owner oppressing Wolff with her self-righteous churchiness?
... Prudhomme said .. she does not attend church ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=34255
Atheist files complaint over restaurant's Sunday promotion
http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/681194_Atheist-files-complaint-over-restaurant-s-Sunday-promotion.html?page=all
Is the restaurant owner demanding Wolff himself attend services? Hardly.
... Prudhomme, one of the co-owners of the restaurant, said she is not discriminating because diners don't have to actually attend a church or synagogue service to get a bulletin. She said area religious leaders told her that anyone can walk in a religious building and obtain a bulletin, without attending services ...
Restaurant flooded with support after atheist complaint
http://www.ydr.com/business/ci_21086800/restaurant-flooded-support-after-atheist-complaint
Does she care whether he gets the bulletin at a church, at a synagogue, at a mosque, or online? Nope.
... she says people can log on to a church website and print a bulletin without visiting the place of worship. She says she will also accept bulletins from other establishments including mosques and synagogues ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=35940
Manheim Township man files claim against Lancaster County restaurant
http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-mainheim-township-man-files-claim-against-lancaster-county-restaurant-20120711,0,255410.story
That's why the editorial writers conclude "There are .. legitimate and important .. religious discrimination issues .. that deserve debate and .. lawyering - but this isn't one"
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)you provided.
rug
(82,333 posts)because some of these incidents are not in fact violations of civil rights.
To answer the excerpt, the fact that a complaint is labeled petty does not mean it is not, in fact, petty.
To answer the larger point, there is plenty of inequality and injustice to go around that needs resisting. There's no need to manufacture or exaggerate any. It's divisive and saps the fight.