Religion and ritual.

[pinto]

(Hi all, new here but I'm interested in joining the discussions. And looking into more that DU has to offer, especially in our new format. ~pinto)

Religion and ritual has always been intertwined for me. I'm a Roman Catholic, not very observant but nominally that's my church. I go back to the time when the mass was said in Latin. And its ritual still echoes for me.

Even that turn of phrase "said in Latin" reflects on ritual. The mass is simply spoken by the priest, whatever the language. And, in most ways, it's always the same. I could probably still recite the call and response arrangement. And the simple structure of the repeated, ritual story that is the mass.

There's a structure there, a weekly connection. A time out.

I still remember and recognize the church bell calls ten minutes before mass. Like in other faiths, a heads up to come and observe. In its own way a call to community. I still appreciate that.

Don't attend much now, though I stop be the mission to say a prayer and light a candle at times. Truth be told, I didn't always attend as a kid.

We were Irish Catholics and sometimes church would be held at the donut shop. With a wink and a nod...

[Angry Dragon]

1. How is your skin and balance??

[pinto]

2. Both going well.

Thanks.

[Angry Dragon]

3. The reason I ask is that there are times in this group

where you need thick skin and it can get pretty rocky

[pinto]

4. Oh, got it. (duh)

[Angry Dragon]

5. I find it interesting that no one else has replied to you

Does everyone else have you on ignore??

[pinto]

6. Just a slow forum at this time, is my guess.

I'm going to check in, off and on, see what's being discussed.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

7. It's mostly a lot of poo-flinging

But we can always use one more.

Welcome!

[Critters2]

8. Yep. Be ready to duck the flying poo.

Nice to meet you!

[laconicsax]

10. Who said that?

[Angry Dragon]

11. ?????????????

[laconicsax]

12. Bad joke, don't worry about it. n/t

[Angry Dragon]

13. Jokes belong in the Humor Group

No problem, did not take offense

[kwassa]

9. Ritual is important in religion

It is a way of invoking a sense of the spiritual, of turning attention to God or whatever one sees as divine. It sounds like after all these years the ritual still has that affect upon you.

[trotsky]

17. Oh, it's absolutely vital.

And patently obvious why.

[pinto]

18. Don't think it's vital, but clearly a component.

[GliderGuider]

19. I don't think ritual is vital for belief per se, but I think it is essential for religion.

Beliefs come in many shapes and sizes, and they may be nothing more than purely personal convictions about the way things are. No ritual is required to establish and maintain such a belief, just normal human psychology.

A religion, on the other hand is the social matrix that crystallizes around a set of beliefs. Because of its social nature it does require ritual to bind the community of adherents together - a visible, participatory, normative expression of their commonality.

[laconicsax]

14. IIRC, Pascal recommended ritual to create belief.

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2012, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

As I recall, he wrote, as part of his wager, that if you don't believe, going through the motions will make you believe over time.

[Nihil]

15. Not quite sure what (or if) you were asking here ...

... but my take on this is that yes, religion and ritual are usually very closely intertwined.

You have mentioned the specifics of the RC church but every religion that I can think about
at the moment has its own collection - some similar, some different in nature or maybe in
intensity - and yes, I think that your interpretation of the "weekly time out" aspect to it
is probably a lot of the reason why many not particularly fervent believers are still happy
to continue with their religion.

Others have simply found other rituals/habits/ways to keep their life ticking over.

[GliderGuider]

16. I never understood the close coupling of ritual and religion,

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2012, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Until one of my partners introduced me to Wicca. The more naturalistic underpinnings of Wicca let me see the inseparable symbiosis of ritual and religion. Prior to that the rituals of Abrahamic religions had seemed quite artificial and alienated (not to mention alienating). I understand that sense of artifice a bit better now, and there's no question that ritual reinforces religions as well as other shared beliefs. Like putting on a white coat when you walk into a lab - or holding up a candidate's sign at a political convention.

I went on a week-long retreat a few years ago during which I was able to perform rituals from a variety of religions: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhism, and Wicca. It was fascinating to feel how the emotional, psychological, cultural and kinesthetic aspects of the observance merged to support the spiritual goals of the religion.

[justiceischeap]

20. I've been doing some quick research on this

When and why ritual was introduced into religion. I haven't yet found much and I'll talk to my roommate tonight about it but I found this on Wiki and found it interesting:

The purposes of rituals are varied; with religious obligations or ideals, satisfaction of spiritual or emotional needs of the practitioners, strengthening of social bonds, social and moral education, demonstration of respect or submission, stating one's affiliation, obtaining social acceptance or approval for some event—or, sometimes, just for the pleasure of the ritual itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual

Since Romans were the first to bring Christianity to the masses, I'd guess ritual was introduced as a "demonstration of respect or submission, stating one's affiliation, obtaining social acceptance or approval... ." And since a lot of rituals for Christianity were borrowed from Pagan beliefs, it was a way to get Pagan's to comfortably convert to Christianity because they weren't so different from what they were already doing.

Mostly, though, I think ritual may have been introduced into religion as a way of teaching that religion to the uninformed. Sort of like that cathedral (in France, I think) that tells the story of the Bible with stained glass pictures... it was so the illiterate could learn the Bible without learning to read (which, of course, brings to question why the Church wanted to keep the masses illiterate and if the literate who translated religious texts could actually be trusted--but I'm paranoid).