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Fri Dec 30, 2011, 05:57 PM

I would like to propose to remove a group host.

I feel that cbayer is no longer able to maintain a sense of neutrality in this group as a group host.

In the last couple of OP's by her father, she has staunchly defended his posts and responses, seemingly without regard to the validity of the charges laid out against the OP she is defending. While I can understand a family connection and a natural reaction to defend one's kin, the following remark she made should automatically disqualify her from a position of authority in the group.

"There is no doubt that he has offended some here and has not been particularly sensitive at times. However, he is a good man, an honest man and a man who has made a positive difference in this world. This group of relentless bullies who will attack him for syntax or just using the wrong word need to stop. Once they target someone, they are vicious. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12183808#post88

For a group host to make such a biased statement AND personal attack against a wide range of members is unacceptable.


This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, and for those of us that participate in this group regularly, we should be able to choose and recall those we allow to moderate it. I move that cbayer is replaced immediately as a group host.

46 replies, 5709 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply I would like to propose to remove a group host. (Original post)
cleanhippie Dec 2011 OP
Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #1
MarkCharles Dec 2011 #2
Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #3
LAGC Dec 2011 #4
PassingFair Dec 2011 #5
skepticscott Dec 2011 #6
skepticscott Dec 2011 #7
EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #8
mr blur Dec 2011 #17
Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #9
Meshuga Jan 2012 #43
rrneck Dec 2011 #10
laconicsax Dec 2011 #11
beam me up scottie Dec 2011 #12
life by carob Dec 2011 #22
beam me up scottie Dec 2011 #24
Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #13
bananas Dec 2011 #14
Adsos Letter Dec 2011 #15
Jim__ Dec 2011 #16
cordelia Dec 2011 #18
LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #19
MineralMan Dec 2011 #20
Iggo Dec 2011 #21
Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #23
beam me up scottie Dec 2011 #25
MarkCharles Dec 2011 #27
beam me up scottie Dec 2011 #39
Meshuga Jan 2012 #44
LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #28
tama Dec 2011 #29
skepticscott Dec 2011 #30
beam me up scottie Dec 2011 #40
Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #41
humblebum Dec 2011 #26
MarkCharles Dec 2011 #31
Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #32
MarkCharles Dec 2011 #35
rrneck Dec 2011 #36
Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #37
humblebum Dec 2011 #34
maddezmom Dec 2011 #33
WolverineDG Dec 2011 #38
Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #42
GliderGuider Jan 2012 #45
rug Jan 2012 #46

Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:11 PM

1. I rec'ed this post not because you are right

but because I see a lot of hostility in this forum
and it needs to be talked about and discussed

Many axes to grind by some.

I do not know if removing a host is the answer
however as long as you have brought it out in the open
it has to be discussed.


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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:18 PM

2. Recommending again! "This group of relentless bullies"

 

" This group of relentless bullies "

What the HECK is that phrase all about, other than sheer paranoia?

Obviously too too immature to host or manage any kind of free discussion.

How do we go about doing this in a fair and just manner? Can we just ask the group host to resign?

Absent that, what procedures are in place?

I see we have juries for posters and their posts, what about for hosts?

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:27 PM

3. Hosts can remove a host that is below them

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:16 PM

4. I don't know. I mean, until/if she ever abuses her Hostess power and locks people's threads...

...for no good reason, I'm inclined to let her speak her mind.

I thought we agreed in the first place that we should have at least two believers and two non-believers as Hosts at any given time?

Unless you have someone in mind to replace her who you think would be better...

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Response to LAGC (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 08:43 PM

5. Maybe we should just have 4 agnostics.

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 08:50 PM

6. Yes, but it is hard to get decisions from people who can

 

never be sure of anything. Except that they can't be sure of anything.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 08:54 PM

7. I tend to agree

 

There has been no abuse of authority that I've seen or heard of. This person is no longer in the position of a what used to be a moderator, and when they were formerly, my perception was that they carefully avoided familial conflicts of interest.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:31 PM

8. I disagree

Yes, CBayer is defensive of her father, but I haven't yet seen any abuse of the Host system. She has the right to defend him, even if I strongly disagree with her and her father. Hosts are not like moderators - they don't have to stay "above the fray" (so to speak) like they did on DU2.

So if this is a Democratic thing, I vote No to removing CBayer as a Host. (Dammit, I wish we had the poll functionality...) Should there be any action by CBayer that might be considered abuse of Host powers, I would be willing to revisit my vote.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 09:44 AM

17. Agreed (nt)

 

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:36 PM

9. I think

she has the right to voice her opinion. If she abuses the group and starts locking threads that don't agree with her opinion, I will agree with the OP. But I don't see that happening.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:19 PM

43. +1

Hosts are allowed to have an opinion. However, hosts should not be allowed to abuse their power. I don't think the op provides an example where the host is using the host position to single out people with different opinions.

On a side note... It kind of sucks that there is no private alerting system so people can evaluate hosts or complain about hosts. Creating threads to question hosts seem to be a loophole to call people out and break du rules.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:40 PM

10. The only bonafide thread lock I've seen was to shut up an anti atheist troll.

I think cbayer is free to speak her mind and as someone who has given her dad a pretty hard time I don't find her defense of him out of line or inaccurate.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:41 PM

11. I haven't seen an abuse of power yet.

 

While I had my reservations about cbayer as a host, I don't think her behavior is unacceptable for a host. Hosts aren't mods.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 10:01 PM

12. I would like to see a list of the "vicious bullies that participate regularly in this group"

There are vicious bullies that participate regularly in this group. Pretty much everyone who has visited the Religion (or previous R/T) forum knows that. And people who have had to moderate it in the past know it particularly well.


I was ok with cbayer as a host and afaik she hasn't pulled rank, but if this is how she really feels I have to wonder if she is really a good choice to host this group.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:10 PM

22. Speaking of bullies...

 

And I thought CBayer was a DUDE!

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Response to life by carob (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 01:19 PM

24. Wtf does gender have to do with anything?

If you're intimidated by intelligent women you're in the wrong place.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:09 AM

13. I have seen nothing to warrant a removal.

 

she and I have gone back and forth on several things, but I haven't seen an abuse of power at this point. Though I agree that the phrasing is a bit troublesome, it seems to me that cbayer has been fine as a host. Hosts aren't mods.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:42 AM

14. No. nt

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:31 AM

15. No.

As far as limiting or controlling discussion I haven't seen cbayer doing anything favoring her dad over anyone else. I don't see anything wrong with her taking up for her dad in discussion.

As far as bias goes, she is expressing a characterization about someone she knows personally. She may very well be right or wrong on the matter but it's still her characterization, and people are free to accept/reject as they so choose. I see no problem, as long as she isn't being vindictive in her exercise of authority. I haven't seen anything to suggest that she is that type of person.

As far as the "personal attack" goes, she didn't name any names or point to any posts so I suppose it is up to the readers to make the identification, or not. It's a close call, I admit.

For transparency's sake: I disagree with her dad's apparent willingness to skate too close to the Church/State line in his desire to bring religion into the debate over the direction of the nation, but as long as cbayer continues to operate as equitably as possible I have no objection to her hosting.







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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:04 AM

16. No.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 10:01 AM

18. No.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 10:03 AM

19. I don't see any need, so long as there is a balance of views among the hosts

I haven't noticed that CBayer has been locking threads with which she disagrees; indeed I think there are fewer locked threads than under the DU2 system.

I don't think hosts are required to be neutral, or objective in all their posts. The main thing is to have both atheist and religious hosts.

The only thing I'd say is that if there is ever a *decision* to be made, as opposed to an opinion expressed, about one of TMO's posts, probably CBayer should be asked to recuse herself as a relative. But that sort of thing is usually a matter for juries rather than hosts.



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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 11:50 AM

20. I'd be opposed to that action.

While I'm not a frequent poster in this forum, I read it daily. I have not seen cbayer do anything as host that warrants her removal.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:09 PM

21. Maybe she should just copy her dad's ignore list.

But could she then be an effective host, with half the group on ignore?

EDIT: I'm not calling for her removal.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 01:14 PM

23. No.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 01:31 PM

25. After reading through that thread, I feel that cbayer was backed into a corner

and lashed out in frustration.

Haven't we all done that before?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:03 PM

27. Don't hosts need to be more reasonable, more accomodating than

 

others?

Why be a host if one cannot be objective?

Is there some control fantasy going on there?

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 10:43 PM

39. No, not really.

Hosts aren't mods, they are allowed to have and post opinions just like any other member.

cbayer has admitted she is not objective, but she has also given her word that she has done nothing that would make her unsuitable to host this group.

Until I see some evidence to the contrary I won't stand against her.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #39)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:25 PM

44. BMUS the voice of reason

As always.

It's nice seeing you here!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:14 PM

28. +1

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:44 PM

29. +1

 

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 04:35 PM

30. There is no individual here or anywhere

 

who is without biases of some sort. One purpose of free and open debate is to cull out those statements and arguments that are inaccurate or invalid due to that bias, and when allowed to proceed relatively unimpeded, it does a very good job at it. As long as no restrictions beyond those placed on all groups and forums here have been imposed, the fact that someone has biases should not, by itself, disqualify them from hosting or participating.

Not that such a thing couldn't happen...after all, someone tried to have this entire group shut down in the old DU2. So..eternal vigilance.



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Response to skepticscott (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 10:46 PM

40. Agreed.

We've been purged before.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 04:31 AM

41. You are wrong!

Well, no you are not. I just wanted to say Happy New Year!!! I know it is off topic..but...I just adore you, even when I don't agree with you!

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 01:50 PM

26. "biased statement AND personal attack against a wide range of members is unacceptable." - so

 

am I to understand that you are calling for the removal of those with whom you do not agree or who do not agree with you? Leave it alone.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 04:46 PM

31. No, again, failure to understand on your part. No one is calling for

 

"removal" of a poster.

Proposal for REMOVAL of a poster from the position of host.

That's the deal, re- read the first post in the thread.

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 05:22 PM

32. We can read and it looks like, so far, we all disagree with you and CleanHippie

It's nice to know he has a friend. We all need friends.
Happy New Year to both of you

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 08:20 PM

35. Which part of "to propose to remove a group host" do you..

 

fail to comprehend?

I will quote:
"For a group host to make such a biased statement AND personal attack against a wide range of members is unacceptable. "

Try to think this out. What is being asked, what is the accusation? What are the facts you are asked to consider?

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 08:38 PM

36. What host powers has cbayer actually abused?

For that matter, what host powers has cbayer even exercised? I don't know of any.

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 08:38 PM

37. Apparently, a wide range of members don't consider themselves bullies.

What part of NO do you not understand?
Happy New Year

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Response to MarkCharles (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 08:05 PM

34. Point taken. But the same goes. Leave it alone.

 

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 06:46 PM

33. No, I don't agree. As long as she's not abusing her duties as a host I see no reason for her to be

removed. There are no moderators anymore and here is a list of the hosts duties:

Host Super Powers
Group Hosts have the following abilities in their assigned groups:

Lock thread (Reason: Violates this forum's Statement of Purpose)
Locks a thread when the OP is not on-topic for the group. An automatic notification will be dropped into the OP explaining why the thread was locked. The thread can only be unlocked by the Host who locked it.

Lock thread (Reason not specified)
Locks a thread for an unspecified reason. An automatic notification will be dropped into the OP, but no reason for the lock will be provided. The thread can only be unlocked by the Host who locked it.

Pin & lock thread
Pins a thread to the top of the group and simultaneously locks it. An automatic notification will be dropped into the OP, but no reason for the lock will be provided. The thread can be unpinned by any Host, but can only be unlocked by the Host who locked it.

Pin thread
Pins a thread to the top of the group, where it will remain until it is unpinned. The thread can be unpinned by any Host.

Block a member from the group
Blocks a member from posting in the group. The member will be automatically notified by DU Mail. Members can be unblocked by any Host.

Make a member a Host of the group
Creates a new group Host. The selected member will be automatically notified by DU Mail. Members can only be removed as a Host by Hosts who are listed above them in the hierarchy.

Remove a Host of the group
Removes a Host. Hosts can only remove Hosts who are listed below them in the hierarchy


Which one has she violated?

If you have a problem with one of her posts or OP's you can always alert on them and see if a jury agrees. If you think it's a TOS violation and the jury doesn't hide the post, admin will be able to review it.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 09:48 PM

38. No nt

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 04:34 AM

42. Nope.

I don't post often, but I read this forum religiously. We are all biased and anyone who claims otherwise is an idiot/liar/stupid or just plain ignorant. If one's biases are interfering with the "moderation" of the group, then chuck'em. You haven't made you case.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:16 PM

45. No. n/t

 

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 06:33 PM

46. Nonsense.

 

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