The Newtown massacre and religion’s big problem of evil

[cbayer]

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/192468/the-newtown-massacre-and-religions-big-problem-of-evil/

By DJ Pangburn 46 mins ago

For the last several days I’ve refrained from weighing in on the Newtown massacre. As abominable as it was, I’ve felt that the media, in all its varied shapes and sizes, together with observers on the right and on the left, have exploited the tragedy. There’s something about money being made in such times that positively rankles me, and so I remained silent. Well, call me a hypocrite, because I’m now throwing my two cents in; mostly because I’ve really had enough of the religious absurdity shooting across the ether from some politicians, religious leaders and a fair number of journalists and bloggers trying to make sense of the tragedy.

There is no making sense of what happened in Newtown, except to say that sometimes members of the human species lose control. A perfectly sane person can descend into violent madness—it needn’t be a person slowly slipping into mental illness. External factors come in to play, of course, such as social environment or economic strata; but we can never precisely get to the bottom of what drives a person over the edge because it’s impossible to truly know another’s mind. Indeed, even knowing one’s own mind is a struggle. At any rate, when people lose control, a combination of factors are at play.

But back to the sanctimonious talk of America’s politicians and religious clerics in these post-Newtown Massacre days.

A few days ago Mike Huckabee claimed that Adam Lanza’s violent actions were directly attributable to a lack of “God” in our public schools. Huckabee stated on Fox News: “We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?” Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association echoed Huckabee’s sentiment, stating, “[H]ere’s the bottom line: God is not gonna go where he’s not wanted … We’ve kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, ‘Hey I’ll be glad to protect your children, but you’ve gotta invite me back into your world first. I’m not gonna go where I’m not wanted. I am a gentleman.’”

more at link

[okasha]

1. The problem of evil is a natural, and probably necessary,

corollary to human free will. Oddly enough, it's the non-religious who seem to lose sight of the fact that H. sapiens is not a fallen angel but a risen ape, whose use of a weapon to kill appears to be a genetic legacy of our Australopithecine past. A deity willing to control directly the violent impulses built into the human species might also be willing to force a non-believer into church every Sunday, or prevent a weasel (an obligate carnivore) from hunting. The poor critter would starve, of course, but we'd then have some non-theists' version of a "benevolent god" as well as overpopulation of mice and more consequent starvation.

[Fumesucker]

2. That's about as specious a bit of reasoning as I've read in quite some while

Congratulations.

[cleanhippie]

5. Specious, yes. But it lacks any reason whatsoever.

[trotsky]

3. Nonsense.

Christianity itself has way out of the free will problem: heaven. Certainly no one would say that we are mindless robots in heaven - clearly if one believes in such a place, we have free will there. But that would mean there is no "problem of evil" corollary, because how could evil exist in heaven?

Of course that's a double-edged sword because if a place exists where we can have free will but not have to suffer, why not just create heaven and be done with it? What is the point of having a brief existence on Earth?

For claiming not to be a Christian, you sure do echo its mindless tripe a lot, okasha.

[cbayer]

8. I don't know if it's necessary, but it certainly is natural among

primates and some other animals.

The book Chimpanzee Politics really opened my eyes.

[okasha]

12. I think the choice "to do good and refuse the evil"

pretty much comes with free will, and is "necessary" in that sense. I can't remember which anthropologist said it, but the real first commandment to hominids was probably "Thou shalt not strike thy brother with thine handaxe, no matter how much he pisseth thee off."

[Leontius]

4. Religion has no problem of evil.

Mankind has a problem of evil.

[cbayer]

6. That's pretty much what he concludes.

[Leontius]

9. And yet he uses the standard cardboard cutout of "religion"

that the resident anti-thesits here use when they show their expertise when discussing religion.

[cbayer]

10. That is very true. While I made a distinction while I was reading it, he really

does not.

And that's too bad.

[skepticscott]

11. And what exactly is that "standard cardboard cutout"

and why is it a totally unrealistic depiction, reflecting the views and beliefs of no actual religious people?

Perhaps we should translate "standard cardboard cutout" as "those very real aspects and manifestations of religious belief that keep popping up as ugly as ever, but that I'd like to pretend don't exist"

[skepticscott]

14. As usual

You just fling poo around and play the victim, with nothing at all to back it up.

[cleanhippie]

7. And with a wave of the hand, the problem disappears.

Sounds about right for religionists.

[Laochtine]

13. Free will?

The free will of 26 humans means little against the free will of 1 human with a bushmaster. In a mathematical equation
free will would be canceled out on both sides leaving: 26 humans mean little against 1 human with a bushmaster, a simple
horrific answer to what happened. In postulate form free will is the gift we give to imaginary deities, so they will stay relevant
after these all too often tragedies happen.

[skepticscott]

15. There's a big difference

Between what you choose to do or not to do, and what you want or don't want to happen. You get that, right?

[Laochtine]

16. I was was thinking

That showing that free will was null, The deranged gunman could mow down 26 people, the variable was the arm. I also tried and I guess failed in your eyes that free will does not effect the outcome, violent intent does. Thanks, I'll try to refine this