Religion
Related: About this forumAtheist parents comfort children about death without talk of God or heaven
And that was it.
Ive explained to them [in the past] that some people believe God is waiting for them, but I dont believe that. I believe when you die, its over and you live on in the memory of people you love and who love you, she said this week. I cant offer them the comfort of a better place. Despite all the evils and problems in the world, this is the heaven were living in the heaven and its the one we work to make. Its not a paradise.
This is what facing death and suffering looks like in an atheist home.
As so many millions of Americans turn to clergy and prayers to help their children sort out the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, parents like Drizin do not. They dont agonize over interpreting Gods will or message in the event. They dont seek to explain what kind of God allows suffering, and they dont fudge it when children ask what happens to people who die, be they Grandma or the young victims of Newtown.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/atheist-parents-comfort-children-about-death-without-talk-of-god-or-heaven/2012/12/22/4f59531c-4aeb-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)and I have never felt the need for a god or a heaven to explain loss. When someone dies it's important to understand that life is limited to the time you spend here on Earth loving and living with your family and friends.
I find it so strange that people who believe in god and such, think Atheists have no way to cope with tragedy. We cope just fine. We simply have a love and respect for life as it actually exists. We don't need a mythology to explain the value of even the briefest time spent alive.
Religious folk seek their solace in prayers, crosses candles and life after death. Atheists find comfort in the wonderful fact that the person they love touched their lives and always will. Life is a beautiful, simple, perfect, closed circle and that is enough for us.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)I agree totally
no_hypocrisy
(45,770 posts)My mother was dying of lung cancer in the hospital. She had just had the "death talk" with me, explaining that she was definitely going to die within a week and her wishes. It was worse than our "sex talk" many years before.
Mom asked me where did I think we went after we died. I told her we return to wherever we were before we were born. She was satisfied with that answer and that prospect and had some comfort.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)an Excellent Post (r) or Good Read (r) award from any of the people here who hand them out so freely?
Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)I think I'm an atheist. I guess by definition that means I'm agnostic, but if there is a spectrum between believer at one end and atheist on the other end, I'm a hair's breadth away from atheist.
This was good to read.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)NYC Liberal
(20,132 posts)And I can't just make myself "believe" something because it would be nice if it were true.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
Carl Sagan
Gman
(24,780 posts)Very sad story about how some raise their children.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)why is it sad?
Mariana
(14,847 posts)What do you think the children should be hoping for? Please be specific. Thanks.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)They know they control how we live and are capable and responsible for making the world a good place. And they are freed from anxiety over what happens at the end. If we need to lie to our children to give them hope, then we are too pathetic of a species to deserve any.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)is how they rob them of critical thinking skills, instead opting for indoctrination into religion.
Sad indeed.
LARED
(11,735 posts)so many atheists think there is a difference between religious indoctrination of children and atheist indoctrination of children.
Then have the hubris to imply a lack of critical thinking skills.
Merry Christmas
Gman
(24,780 posts)Including the less than more intelligent than everyone else atheists! Peace.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Maybe try reading something other than the bible.
Happy Saturnalia.
LARED
(11,735 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Try reading a science book.
LARED
(11,735 posts)Oh I forgot you believe religionists lack critical thinking skills and are devoid of scientific knowledge.
You are of course welcome to whatever fantasy floats your boat.
LARED
(11,735 posts)mechanical engineer, have a graduate degree in engineering management and am extremely well read. Even lots of them complicated science books you are suggesting.
How about you, ever read a theology book? I'm guessing no.
LARED
(11,735 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)LARED
(11,735 posts)You are older than thirteen? Yes?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)That explains a lot.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)It's the default setting. Anything other than that, real or imagined, is taught.
LARED
(11,735 posts)Do you have anything other than opinion to back up that assertion?
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)And which religion you learned was nothing but a matter of WHEN you lived and WHERE in the world you lived. It's taught by society and not something you are born with.
Feel free to disprove this.
LARED
(11,735 posts)Humans have worshiped various things and people since before recorded history. Why is that?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)A life lived with false hopes and delusions. How sad, how pathetic.
LeftishBrit
(41,190 posts)Not all religious people believe in an afterlife in any case. Many religious Jews, for example, do not actively believe in an afterlife; and even those who do, do not usually make it their key emphasis.
Perhaps one aspect of hope is to make this world better, so that the children may grow up to something better than they have now.
And to remember the good people who have died by trying to make the world more into a place that they would like.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)of this life. I feel sorry for the fools who can't understand how someone can have both. I appreciate your understanding that people can have both. I second your comments of hope and would just add we should also remember those who just lived a life to make this world a better place. Peace and joy to you and yours on this day and every day.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)in an afterlife (and more) try to get their unfounded beliefs enshrined into law, taught in our schools, and demand everyone else give their beliefs respect at the expense of others.
Why is that so difficult to understand?
Leontius
(2,270 posts)Here's a clue the state was not mentioned personal beliefs and parents teaching their children was . Why is that so difficult to understand?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)where is the freedom that child deserves to make up his/her own mind?
"Give me the child until he is seven and I care not who has him thereafter." - Jesuit Maxim
Leontius
(2,270 posts)Why am I not suprised?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)No one is surprised.
Care to try again and speak to the topic or will you just toss around more insults? Come, leontious, make Jesus proud.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)as to speaking on the topic you seem to have lost that long ago and when that and your prejudiced remark was pointed out you respond with a childish attempt at sarcasm and whine about insults. This is why fewer and fewer people respond to you. I know I am quite tired of the grade school playground antics you seem to embrace as a method of intelligent discussion. So if you ever feel up to having a discussion as an adult for more than two posts in a row I'm sure many here would welcome it, change can be beneficial it might lead to an enlightenment and the ability to be a freethinker.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Because all I hear is whining. Please try again.
Jesus sure is proud.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Maybe YOU should have tried to "face the challenge as an adult" instead of "responding with childish pique." Go have a look at the post where instead of responding like an adult, you chose to sling insults at me.
Hypocrite. Doesn't your bible have something to say about that? Jesus is just BUSTING with pride.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)I have, go play now.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You are a true credit to your religion. Stay classy!
Leontius
(2,270 posts)Why not stop now, the hole you're digging won't get you to China no matter how hard you try.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Yet Pride is a sin, right?
Houston, we have a predicament.
1ProudAtheist
(346 posts)We atheists are often berated and despised because we choose not to buy into someone else's myths and insecurities. Trying to explain just how happy and satisfying that life is without being afraid to die, and without the fear of a hateful and vengeful imaginary manifestation, is my greatest joy. Life is for living, not for living in fear.
Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #11)
PADemD This message was self-deleted by its author.
1ProudAtheist
(346 posts)For me anyway. I base my morality on what I feel is acceptable and proper. After all, I am the only one that I ever have to answer to. I certainly do not need to pay someone to tell me what it is that I should do, should think, or should act like. We atheists do not belong to any cults that set down strict rules for outward appearances and proper behaviors. I am true to myself at the exclusion of all others. This probably sets my values much higher than those who need instructions.
By the way, I do take your question as a sarcastic insult. If you are serious about such things, then I suggest that you sit down and have a face-to-face discussion with an atheist. Don't be afraid. Don't be scared. If you keep an open mind, you surely will learn a great deal.
Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #19)
PADemD This message was self-deleted by its author.
1ProudAtheist
(346 posts)those of the christian faith posess a far superior morality than do we atheists. If that is indeed the case, and the basis for your question, then I shall be remiss to not remind you of a couple of christians with really high morals.......Adolf Hitler and Timothy McVeigh.
I so do hate to burst your bubble, but one's morality comes from within, not from any external source. If you really do believe that hiding behind a house of worship somehow bestows moral values onto you, then you have very much left to learn about this thing that we call life.
It is my opinion that, just from this briefest of conversations, that you are in dire need of some help with your doubts and insecurities. I promise you that it is perfectly fine to have doubts. It is perfectly fine to ask honest questions. And above all, it is perfectly fine to accept facts and truths over myths and supersticions. The very fact that you felt the need to ask such a question is proof positive of your doubts and curiosities. I also promise you that no person need seek the definition of morality from someone else. Each and every person has those answers buried deep inside their being. Trying to live up to the expectations of others will always be a losing battle. Once you come to terms with who you really are and accept that for what it is, then others will accept you just as you are. You need not work at being something other than what you truly are. Ask yourself the hard questions instead of seeking the answers from someone else. When you get it all figured out, life will be much more enjoyable.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Promethean
(468 posts)Beware what you say because the door swings both ways. Every person who makes this argument is also making the point that the only thing keeping them from doing unspeakably horrible things is the fear of their god. That from my perspective is a truly horrifying thought.
madmom
(9,681 posts)certainly isn't the teaching of this Jesus fellow.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)And the answer is, same thing as everyone else does. We just don't pretend otherwise. Then again, we're not afraid to face the fact. Not much of an answer, but better than you deserve.
Skraxx
(2,964 posts)And the people I care about. Isn't that enough?
Warpy
(110,900 posts)I'll bet it's the same kind I want, one where people are kind to each other and respectful of everyone's right to be different, one that's predictable enough and where people are rewarded for work so that they don't have to steal to survive, where people find joy with each other. Certainly a world where people don't go out of their way to harm one another in any way.
The only difference is that when you violate this stuff and make it a worse world rather than a better one, you get to put off judgment until you are dead. I have to face my judge every time I look in the mirror.
Atheists simply don't believe in a god or gods. Otherwise there is no difference between us.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Anyway, it's human nature. We project our morals into religion, not the other way around.
Skittles
(152,963 posts)it's not THAT hard
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Just curious.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)My kid has no concept of angels or heaven or any of that mythology. He's just fine. It's unnecessary.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,477 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)"you live on in the memory of people you love and who love you..."
So simple, beautiful and true.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)And that is what Sunday School is for.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)It's not scarey. In fact it's rather liberating and empowering.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)That's the way we do it. Anything else is dishonest.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)Great article, thanks for posting!
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Please feel free to post any of your own. We need some new faces in here.
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)to tell your kids that when they die, that's it, they are dead. Or to tell them that when I die, that's it, I'm fuckin dead. It's confusing because of the whole "heaven" story. They don't even know what it is like to be alive yet and we are fuckin scaring them about death. I was kinda forced into the whole baptism/catechism/ confirmation bullshit by the grandparents of my daughter. Instead of fuckin arguing with everyone I went ahead and put her in. It didn't take long before she realized that going to school all week, then having to go to sunday school was a pain in the ass. She'd rather be playing and doing other kids things instead of spending an hour or so every Sunday learning about something she really doesn't care about. I didn't force her to stop going, but let me fuckin tell you, the day she said she didn't want to go anymore I didn't hesitate to say I had no problem with it. I asked her why, mostly because I thought maybe something bad happened and she was scared or maybe bullying or other bad shit and she just said she didn't want to go anymore. I asked her if she believed in Jesus or God and she said "I don't know, just seems phony" and that was it. She's 17 now and never looked back. I never even bothered enrolling my son, but again due to pressure from the grandparents, on both sides I should add, we had him baptized. It doesn't come up much anymore, I encourage them to read about religions and see how they influence their lives in good and bad ways, but that's about it. I would never disown them for their beliefs or lack thereof, but I think they get it.