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cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:12 PM Dec 2012

Atheist parents comfort children about death without talk of God or heaven

For Julie Drizin, being an atheist parent means being deliberate. She rewrote the words to “Silent Night” when her daughters were babies to remove words like “holy,” found a secular Sunday school where the children light candles “of understanding,” and selects gifts carefully to promote science, art and wonder at nature. So when she pulled her 9- and 13-year-olds together this week in their Takoma Park home to tell them about the slaughter of 20 elementary school students in Newtown, Conn., her words were plain: Something horrible happened, and we feel sad about it, and you are safe.

And that was it.

“I’ve explained to them [in the past] that some people believe God is waiting for them, but I don’t believe that. I believe when you die, it’s over and you live on in the memory of people you love and who love you,” she said this week. “I can’t offer them the comfort of a better place. Despite all the evils and problems in the world, this is the heaven — we’re living in the heaven and it’s the one we work to make. It’s not a paradise.”

This is what facing death and suffering looks like in an atheist home.

As so many millions of Americans turn to clergy and prayers to help their children sort out the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, parents like Drizin do not. They don’t agonize over interpreting God’s will or message in the event. They don’t seek to explain what kind of God allows suffering, and they don’t fudge it when children ask what happens to people who die, be they Grandma or the young victims of Newtown.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/atheist-parents-comfort-children-about-death-without-talk-of-god-or-heaven/2012/12/22/4f59531c-4aeb-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html

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Atheist parents comfort children about death without talk of God or heaven (Original Post) cleanhippie Dec 2012 OP
Thanks for posting this. nt ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #1
Your welcome! Happy whatever-you-celebrate-or-not to you and yours. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #2
Ramen Paulie Dec 2012 #3
I have been an Atheist for as long as I have memory... Walk away Dec 2012 #4
exactly-- well said NoMoreWarNow Dec 2012 #13
And our secular training is returned to our parents. no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #5
I wonder if you'll get skepticscott Dec 2012 #6
Thank you for posting this! Still Blue in PDX Dec 2012 #7
K&R SunSeeker Dec 2012 #8
Believing this is the only life I've got makes me appreciate it more, not less. NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #9
How sad. They have no hope Gman Dec 2012 #10
eh, what? NoMoreWarNow Dec 2012 #14
No hope of what, exactly? Mariana Dec 2012 #17
Their hope is in their own hands. Deep13 Dec 2012 #28
Whats even sadder about how some raise their children... cleanhippie Dec 2012 #32
What is even sadder is that LARED Dec 2012 #34
Exactly! Thanks and Merry Christmas to all Gman Dec 2012 #35
Great coherence, Gman! cleanhippie Dec 2012 #40
Perfect example of my point. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #39
You had a point? NT LARED Dec 2012 #41
Exactly. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #43
What is your problem? LARED Dec 2012 #45
I am a LARED Dec 2012 #46
! cleanhippie Dec 2012 #47
I expected nothing less. nt LARED Dec 2012 #49
One gets what one deserves. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #50
I guess I must deserve a DU'er impersonating an arrogant thirteen year old. LARED Dec 2012 #56
You are impersonating an arrogant thirteen year old? cleanhippie Dec 2012 #57
Exactly. You don't 'indoctrinate' into Atheism Shadowflash Dec 2012 #55
Atheism is a default setting? LARED Dec 2012 #66
Religion is learned not something you are born believing. Shadowflash Dec 2012 #69
I can no more disprove that, than you can prove atheism is the "natural state" LARED Dec 2012 #70
How sad you lie to your children. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #36
Not expecting an afterlife does not equal no hope. LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #38
And believing in an afterlife does not equal the surrender of control or meaning Leontius Dec 2012 #42
Its not your personal belief in an afterlife that is the problem. Its when groups who believe cleanhippie Dec 2012 #44
Do you have any idea of what this post was about? Leontius Dec 2012 #48
When one indoctrinates their child into a belief system that supercedes reality... cleanhippie Dec 2012 #51
Your prejudice is showing. Leontius Dec 2012 #60
Your ignorance is showing. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #61
Again not surprised that you fail to take notice when your prejudice is pointed out Leontius Dec 2012 #62
Did you say something? cleanhippie Dec 2012 #63
Excellent instead of facing the challenge as an adult you respond with more childish pique. Leontius Dec 2012 #64
Ha! Typical of you to try amnd turn it around. YOU are the one that went off the rails. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #65
You know you're right there is something in the Bible about 'suffering the little children'. Leontius Dec 2012 #68
Ahh, more insults. Yes, jesus is a proud Papa, I'm sure. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #71
And the hits just keep on coming Leontius Dec 2012 #72
And Jesus just keeps getting prouder! cleanhippie Dec 2012 #73
A Most Enlightening Piece 1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author PADemD Dec 2012 #18
Simple Answer 1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author PADemD Dec 2012 #24
Perhaps You Feel That 1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #25
Hey, why did you delete and run away from your post? cleanhippie Dec 2012 #52
You base this question on the premise that religion or god is required for someone to be moral. Promethean Dec 2012 #20
I'm curious as to what "christians" base their morals on, it madmom Dec 2012 #21
Oh, haven't heard *that* one before... mr blur Dec 2012 #22
I Treat Orhers The Way I Wish They Would Treat Me Skraxx Dec 2012 #23
What kind of world do YOU want to live in? Warpy Dec 2012 #26
Irrelevant, there is no god regardless. Deep13 Dec 2012 #29
just doing the right thing? Skittles Dec 2012 #30
On what do you base your morals? cleanhippie Dec 2012 #33
We have none. We ate one of our kids for festivus last night. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #37
I have no troubles with it. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #12
yep! NoMoreWarNow Dec 2012 #16
I think this part needs to be stressed more. Especially for the religious. LiberalFighter Dec 2012 #15
+1000 abelenkpe Dec 2012 #54
I agree, but we both know that will never happen. Gotta keep the lie alive. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #58
right, just tell the truth... Deep13 Dec 2012 #27
Great post! defacto7 Dec 2012 #31
Great article! Bjornsdotter Dec 2012 #53
Your welcome. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #59
It's not easy EvilAL Dec 2012 #67

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
4. I have been an Atheist for as long as I have memory...
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:48 PM
Dec 2012

and I have never felt the need for a god or a heaven to explain loss. When someone dies it's important to understand that life is limited to the time you spend here on Earth loving and living with your family and friends.

I find it so strange that people who believe in god and such, think Atheists have no way to cope with tragedy. We cope just fine. We simply have a love and respect for life as it actually exists. We don't need a mythology to explain the value of even the briefest time spent alive.

Religious folk seek their solace in prayers, crosses candles and life after death. Atheists find comfort in the wonderful fact that the person they love touched their lives and always will. Life is a beautiful, simple, perfect, closed circle and that is enough for us.

no_hypocrisy

(45,770 posts)
5. And our secular training is returned to our parents.
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:24 PM
Dec 2012

My mother was dying of lung cancer in the hospital. She had just had the "death talk" with me, explaining that she was definitely going to die within a week and her wishes. It was worse than our "sex talk" many years before.

Mom asked me where did I think we went after we died. I told her we return to wherever we were before we were born. She was satisfied with that answer and that prospect and had some comfort.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
6. I wonder if you'll get
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:46 PM
Dec 2012

an Excellent Post (r) or Good Read (r) award from any of the people here who hand them out so freely?

Still Blue in PDX

(1,999 posts)
7. Thank you for posting this!
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:40 PM
Dec 2012

I think I'm an atheist. I guess by definition that means I'm agnostic, but if there is a spectrum between believer at one end and atheist on the other end, I'm a hair's breadth away from atheist.

This was good to read.

NYC Liberal

(20,132 posts)
9. Believing this is the only life I've got makes me appreciate it more, not less.
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:04 PM
Dec 2012

And I can't just make myself "believe" something because it would be nice if it were true.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

—Carl Sagan

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
17. No hope of what, exactly?
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:21 PM
Dec 2012

What do you think the children should be hoping for? Please be specific. Thanks.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
28. Their hope is in their own hands.
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 03:02 AM
Dec 2012

They know they control how we live and are capable and responsible for making the world a good place. And they are freed from anxiety over what happens at the end. If we need to lie to our children to give them hope, then we are too pathetic of a species to deserve any.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
32. Whats even sadder about how some raise their children...
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:37 AM
Dec 2012

is how they rob them of critical thinking skills, instead opting for indoctrination into religion.


Sad indeed.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
34. What is even sadder is that
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 09:53 AM
Dec 2012

so many atheists think there is a difference between religious indoctrination of children and atheist indoctrination of children.

Then have the hubris to imply a lack of critical thinking skills.

Merry Christmas

Gman

(24,780 posts)
35. Exactly! Thanks and Merry Christmas to all
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 10:06 AM
Dec 2012

Including the less than more intelligent than everyone else atheists! Peace.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
45. What is your problem?
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:00 PM
Dec 2012

Oh I forgot you believe religionists lack critical thinking skills and are devoid of scientific knowledge.

You are of course welcome to whatever fantasy floats your boat.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
46. I am a
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:22 PM
Dec 2012

mechanical engineer, have a graduate degree in engineering management and am extremely well read. Even lots of them complicated science books you are suggesting.

How about you, ever read a theology book? I'm guessing no.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
56. I guess I must deserve a DU'er impersonating an arrogant thirteen year old.
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:43 PM
Dec 2012

You are older than thirteen? Yes?

Shadowflash

(1,536 posts)
55. Exactly. You don't 'indoctrinate' into Atheism
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:57 PM
Dec 2012

It's the default setting. Anything other than that, real or imagined, is taught.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
66. Atheism is a default setting?
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:03 AM
Dec 2012

Do you have anything other than opinion to back up that assertion?

Shadowflash

(1,536 posts)
69. Religion is learned not something you are born believing.
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:19 PM
Dec 2012

And which religion you learned was nothing but a matter of WHEN you lived and WHERE in the world you lived. It's taught by society and not something you are born with.

Feel free to disprove this.

 

LARED

(11,735 posts)
70. I can no more disprove that, than you can prove atheism is the "natural state"
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:56 PM
Dec 2012

Humans have worshiped various things and people since before recorded history. Why is that?


 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
36. How sad you lie to your children.
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 02:31 PM
Dec 2012

A life lived with false hopes and delusions. How sad, how pathetic.

LeftishBrit

(41,190 posts)
38. Not expecting an afterlife does not equal no hope.
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 03:16 PM
Dec 2012

Not all religious people believe in an afterlife in any case. Many religious Jews, for example, do not actively believe in an afterlife; and even those who do, do not usually make it their key emphasis.

Perhaps one aspect of hope is to make this world better, so that the children may grow up to something better than they have now.

And to remember the good people who have died by trying to make the world more into a place that they would like.



 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
42. And believing in an afterlife does not equal the surrender of control or meaning
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 08:32 PM
Dec 2012

of this life. I feel sorry for the fools who can't understand how someone can have both. I appreciate your understanding that people can have both. I second your comments of hope and would just add we should also remember those who just lived a life to make this world a better place. Peace and joy to you and yours on this day and every day.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
44. Its not your personal belief in an afterlife that is the problem. Its when groups who believe
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 08:58 PM
Dec 2012

in an afterlife (and more) try to get their unfounded beliefs enshrined into law, taught in our schools, and demand everyone else give their beliefs respect at the expense of others.


Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
48. Do you have any idea of what this post was about?
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:28 PM
Dec 2012

Here's a clue the state was not mentioned personal beliefs and parents teaching their children was . Why is that so difficult to understand?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
51. When one indoctrinates their child into a belief system that supercedes reality...
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:41 PM
Dec 2012

where is the freedom that child deserves to make up his/her own mind?

"Give me the child until he is seven and I care not who has him thereafter." - Jesuit Maxim

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
61. Your ignorance is showing.
Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:07 PM
Dec 2012

No one is surprised.

Care to try again and speak to the topic or will you just toss around more insults? Come, leontious, make Jesus proud.

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
62. Again not surprised that you fail to take notice when your prejudice is pointed out
Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:02 PM
Dec 2012

as to speaking on the topic you seem to have lost that long ago and when that and your prejudiced remark was pointed out you respond with a childish attempt at sarcasm and whine about insults. This is why fewer and fewer people respond to you. I know I am quite tired of the grade school playground antics you seem to embrace as a method of intelligent discussion. So if you ever feel up to having a discussion as an adult for more than two posts in a row I'm sure many here would welcome it, change can be beneficial it might lead to an enlightenment and the ability to be a freethinker.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
65. Ha! Typical of you to try amnd turn it around. YOU are the one that went off the rails.
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:45 AM
Dec 2012

Maybe YOU should have tried to "face the challenge as an adult" instead of "responding with childish pique." Go have a look at the post where instead of responding like an adult, you chose to sling insults at me.

Hypocrite. Doesn't your bible have something to say about that? Jesus is just BUSTING with pride.

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
68. You know you're right there is something in the Bible about 'suffering the little children'.
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:39 PM
Dec 2012

I have, go play now.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
71. Ahh, more insults. Yes, jesus is a proud Papa, I'm sure.
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:23 PM
Dec 2012


You are a true credit to your religion. Stay classy!
 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
72. And the hits just keep on coming
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:13 PM
Dec 2012

Why not stop now, the hole you're digging won't get you to China no matter how hard you try.

 

1ProudAtheist

(346 posts)
11. A Most Enlightening Piece
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:09 PM
Dec 2012

We atheists are often berated and despised because we choose not to buy into someone else's myths and insecurities. Trying to explain just how happy and satisfying that life is without being afraid to die, and without the fear of a hateful and vengeful imaginary manifestation, is my greatest joy. Life is for living, not for living in fear.

Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #11)

 

1ProudAtheist

(346 posts)
19. Simple Answer
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:37 PM
Dec 2012

For me anyway. I base my morality on what I feel is acceptable and proper. After all, I am the only one that I ever have to answer to. I certainly do not need to pay someone to tell me what it is that I should do, should think, or should act like. We atheists do not belong to any cults that set down strict rules for outward appearances and proper behaviors. I am true to myself at the exclusion of all others. This probably sets my values much higher than those who need instructions.

By the way, I do take your question as a sarcastic insult. If you are serious about such things, then I suggest that you sit down and have a face-to-face discussion with an atheist. Don't be afraid. Don't be scared. If you keep an open mind, you surely will learn a great deal.

Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #19)

 

1ProudAtheist

(346 posts)
25. Perhaps You Feel That
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 02:18 AM
Dec 2012

those of the christian faith posess a far superior morality than do we atheists. If that is indeed the case, and the basis for your question, then I shall be remiss to not remind you of a couple of christians with really high morals.......Adolf Hitler and Timothy McVeigh.

I so do hate to burst your bubble, but one's morality comes from within, not from any external source. If you really do believe that hiding behind a house of worship somehow bestows moral values onto you, then you have very much left to learn about this thing that we call life.

It is my opinion that, just from this briefest of conversations, that you are in dire need of some help with your doubts and insecurities. I promise you that it is perfectly fine to have doubts. It is perfectly fine to ask honest questions. And above all, it is perfectly fine to accept facts and truths over myths and supersticions. The very fact that you felt the need to ask such a question is proof positive of your doubts and curiosities. I also promise you that no person need seek the definition of morality from someone else. Each and every person has those answers buried deep inside their being. Trying to live up to the expectations of others will always be a losing battle. Once you come to terms with who you really are and accept that for what it is, then others will accept you just as you are. You need not work at being something other than what you truly are. Ask yourself the hard questions instead of seeking the answers from someone else. When you get it all figured out, life will be much more enjoyable.

Promethean

(468 posts)
20. You base this question on the premise that religion or god is required for someone to be moral.
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:01 PM
Dec 2012

Beware what you say because the door swings both ways. Every person who makes this argument is also making the point that the only thing keeping them from doing unspeakably horrible things is the fear of their god. That from my perspective is a truly horrifying thought.

madmom

(9,681 posts)
21. I'm curious as to what "christians" base their morals on, it
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:05 PM
Dec 2012

certainly isn't the teaching of this Jesus fellow.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
22. Oh, haven't heard *that* one before...
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:47 PM
Dec 2012

And the answer is, same thing as everyone else does. We just don't pretend otherwise. Then again, we're not afraid to face the fact. Not much of an answer, but better than you deserve.

Skraxx

(2,964 posts)
23. I Treat Orhers The Way I Wish They Would Treat Me
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 09:05 PM
Dec 2012

And the people I care about. Isn't that enough?

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
26. What kind of world do YOU want to live in?
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 02:50 AM
Dec 2012

I'll bet it's the same kind I want, one where people are kind to each other and respectful of everyone's right to be different, one that's predictable enough and where people are rewarded for work so that they don't have to steal to survive, where people find joy with each other. Certainly a world where people don't go out of their way to harm one another in any way.

The only difference is that when you violate this stuff and make it a worse world rather than a better one, you get to put off judgment until you are dead. I have to face my judge every time I look in the mirror.

Atheists simply don't believe in a god or gods. Otherwise there is no difference between us.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
29. Irrelevant, there is no god regardless.
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 03:57 AM
Dec 2012

Anyway, it's human nature. We project our morals into religion, not the other way around.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
12. I have no troubles with it.
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:12 PM
Dec 2012

My kid has no concept of angels or heaven or any of that mythology. He's just fine. It's unnecessary.

LiberalFighter

(50,477 posts)
15. I think this part needs to be stressed more. Especially for the religious.
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:15 PM
Dec 2012
I believe when you die, it’s over and you live on in the memory of people you love and who love you,

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
54. +1000
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:51 PM
Dec 2012

"you live on in the memory of people you love and who love you..."

So simple, beautiful and true.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
58. I agree, but we both know that will never happen. Gotta keep the lie alive.
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:29 PM
Dec 2012

And that is what Sunday School is for.

EvilAL

(1,437 posts)
67. It's not easy
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:48 AM
Dec 2012

to tell your kids that when they die, that's it, they are dead. Or to tell them that when I die, that's it, I'm fuckin dead. It's confusing because of the whole "heaven" story. They don't even know what it is like to be alive yet and we are fuckin scaring them about death. I was kinda forced into the whole baptism/catechism/ confirmation bullshit by the grandparents of my daughter. Instead of fuckin arguing with everyone I went ahead and put her in. It didn't take long before she realized that going to school all week, then having to go to sunday school was a pain in the ass. She'd rather be playing and doing other kids things instead of spending an hour or so every Sunday learning about something she really doesn't care about. I didn't force her to stop going, but let me fuckin tell you, the day she said she didn't want to go anymore I didn't hesitate to say I had no problem with it. I asked her why, mostly because I thought maybe something bad happened and she was scared or maybe bullying or other bad shit and she just said she didn't want to go anymore. I asked her if she believed in Jesus or God and she said "I don't know, just seems phony" and that was it. She's 17 now and never looked back. I never even bothered enrolling my son, but again due to pressure from the grandparents, on both sides I should add, we had him baptized. It doesn't come up much anymore, I encourage them to read about religions and see how they influence their lives in good and bad ways, but that's about it. I would never disown them for their beliefs or lack thereof, but I think they get it.

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