'Crucified' Santa skeleton is decapitated

[rug]

3 hours ago

The red-robed skeleton had been vandalized once before and taken down, but the owners, a Christian teenager and his atheist mother, replaced it Friday evening.

The display was one of 10 citizen-made holiday displays approved to stand outside the Loudoun County courthouse. Applications to place one of the displays are made on a first-come, first-serve basis.

Last week, the skeleton Santa touched off a debate on free expression in Leesburg, Va. Some said it was offensive, while others argued that it was an important statement on the holiday season. It was put up on Monday, and shortly after, was torn down.

"Clearly some people from the Christian community do not respect the free speech rights of others," Rick Wingrove, the Virginia director of the group American Atheists, said about the most recent vandalism. On Saturday, several other atheist-made displays were outside of the courthouse, but none of the others featured a crucified Santa Claus.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/12/9394820-crucified-santa-skeleton-is-decapitated

This story has legs but, alas, no head.

Picture at link.

[mike_c]

1. LOL-- I grew up in Loudoun County....

When I lived there, during the 1960s and 1970s, an atheist display of anything would likely have recruited a lynch mob, so it sounds like real progress is being made.

[MNBrewer]

2. I suspect this asshat had something to do with it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Delgaudio

[trotsky]

3. "the owners, a Christian teenager and his atheist mother"

The last thread you started on this topic assumed the display had been put up by atheists. Glad you corrected yourself. And now we find that all the vitriol and harshness hurled at atheists was completely unwarranted. Nice.

[rug]

5. The difference is the mother is an adult.

[trotsky]

6. Then I totally understand why atheists should be attacked for this.

Thanks for providing folks the opportunity. Your efforts to improve the tone are appreciated.

[rug]

7. The fact that this idiot is an atheist is totally coincidental.

I'm certain her beliefs had nothing to do with it.

[trotsky]

8. Then why in your first thread did you specifically claim it was atheists that did it?

Wait I know, more improving the tone. You stay classy, rug.

[rug]

10. I didn't claim that at all. It was in the article.

You stay accurate, trotsky.

[trotsky]

16. You put your own headline on it.

Honestly, rug, why do you have to be this way?

[rug]

20. You realize DU2 is still open.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x322629

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/06/9247743-atheist-display-skeleton-santa-nailed-to-a-cross

Honestly, trotsky, why do you have to be dishonest this way?

[trotsky]

21. Read this carefully.

I am sorry I misread your post, and only visited the video link to make my judgment.

I sincerely hope this leads to improved behavior from you.

[rug]

22. Apology accepted.

[Demoiselle]

4. Am I silly to think that true "Christmas Spirit" could ignore a skeleton Santa?

To say nothing of the fact that our Founding Fathers had a healthy fear of doctrinaire religious nonsense...of any description.
Why are we so afraid of atheists in this country? (No, really, I'm asking.) It seems to me that those who have faith...whatever their faith.... should be strong enough in their faith to let it be.

[kenny blankenship]

9. Why is Rick Wingrove confusing 'Santa Claus' with Christianity, or for that matter-

why does he confuse atheism with assholism? Tiny babies know that Santa is made up and not part of the Christian religion (also made up but a long time ago), or something to take seriously. Why do you have to get suddenly serious about shitting all over Santa's lap? The only other people who pretend Santa Claus is a fixture and/or heresy of the Christian religion are Fundamentalist Whackos. They think he's serious too, seriously Satan. Joining them in protest of Santa Claus, doesn't make you a good Atheist, Mr. Wingrove, it makes you a common asshole. If you want to be a common public asshole, stick to berating people over what and how much they eat, or how they commute to their work, and get to and from the grocery store, and transport their kids from school to soccer practice. Atheism used to be a nice quiet ism for people who wanted to live and let live - please leave it alone!

Zombie Santa has a hard on for naughtiness. Coal and switches may be jammed in more than just your stocking, Mr. Wingrove.

[struggle4progress]

11. I see American Atheists Inc is brilliantly milking this for all the publicity advantages!

... Rick Wingrove, president of the Virginia Chapter of American Atheists, said the county needs to do something about having displays on the lawn ...
UPDATE: Board decides to keep displays; vote will be moved to next year’s board
Monday, Dec. 5, 2011 by Laura Peters
http://www.loudountimes.com/index.php/news/article/skeleton_santa_display_removed_by_citizen123/

... "Our numbers are increasing," says Rick Wingrove of NOVA Atheists. "We're in every town. We're the fastest-growing--I guess you could call it 'religious segment'--in 50 states" ...
Battles over religion increase in the holiday season
By Greta Kreuz
December 9, 2011 - 06:54 pm
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/12/battles-over-religion-increase-in-the-holiday-season-70144.html

What better way could there be, to give the Virginia public a warm and friendly feeling towards atheists, than to associate "atheism" with "crucified Santa skeleton holiday display"! It's pure genius! I predict NOVA Atheists' membership in NOVA Atheists will grow uncontrollably as news of this spreads across Virginia!

[Goblinmonger]

12. Yes, by all means, lets make this about the atheists

and not the violation of the 1st Amendment.

[humblebum]

13. To atheists, it is about the 1st Amendment. To most others it is about atheism. Many and possibly

most do not consider it to be a violation.

[darkstar3]

15. And that doesn't matter one bit. Tyrrany of the majority is still tyrrany,

and fuck that.

[humblebum]

25. Did you ever think of maybe just putting up something like a Happy Winter Solstice sign with maybe

a red letter 'A', without any derogatory remarks, accompanying it? Tasteful, seasonal, not offensive, not permanent. Many, including myself, would have no objection to such a display.

[darkstar3]

26. No, because the shit your "many" put up is offensive, and it's time you learned that.

[humblebum]

27. Many things can be offensive but legal. that's life. As I have been told here before:

"You have no right not to be offended."

[darkstar3]

28. You're the one who griped about the Santa,

maybe now you're starting to learn what it's really about.

[humblebum]

29. It wasn't a Santa. It was crucified skeleton Santa. I'm trying to present an idea

on how to improve an image. Tyranny by minority is also a form of tyranny. thank you no.

[laconicsax]

30. I'm glad you're here to protect us from the tyranny of the minority.

[darkstar3]

31. When you use the word "Santa" in your own description, it's a Santa.

As for your idea, you are (deliberately at this junction) missing the point. The religious symbols are offensive, and showing that by juxtaposition is effective.

At least for those who aren't completely invested in protecting the double standard at work here.

[humblebum]

36. A religious symbol is only offensive to those who take it as such.

If you get jollies off by ridiculing and destroying symbols and those whom they represent, then you are no different than someone who attacks a star of David or defaces a mosque.

[lazarus]

37. a crucified Santa is only offensive to those who take it as such

That was easy.

[Goblinmonger]

40. So I'm glad to see

you brought your "organized atheism is the same as the KKK" meme with you to the new DU. At least we know that you aren't going to contribute to a "new attitude" here.

[humblebum]

41. I asked a simple question. How about a simple answer. And I think the "new attitude"

was set before I chimed in. Or is part of the "new attitude" that atheism can't be criticized, but only religion?

[Goblinmonger]

42. Please point out where I said that atheism can't be criticized.

Or where I even intimated it.

If you don't see the difference between this display and Swastikas on a synagogue, then I really don't know how anyone could have an intelligent conversation with you.

[humblebum]

44. "There is no difference, except maybe in the mind of those doing such things." - Both

are obviously designed to display disrespect for a religious belief.

[lazarus]

43. Glad you realize

how ridiculous your original position is.

[humblebum]

45. I think you would be very hard pressed to explain

how the events are different.

[LanternWaste]

39. Regardless of offense taken, I would imagine intent is rather obvious

Regardless of offense taken, I would imagine intent is rather obvious. However, I do realize that minimizing (or even denial of) that intent is often more convenient to our own world-views...

[darkstar3]

46. Now you've just gone off the deep end.

Have fun, I'm not joining you. You already know that your topic sentence is worthless, made specifically to ignore those whom you offend, so there's nothing more to do here.

[deacon_sephiroth]

33. WOW the irony

Re-read what you wrote there and apply it to everything else you've written on this thread. You're sitting here talking about how offensive it is, how they could be less offensive, and whining about how it's OK to smash the 1st amendment because it's not about that, it's about atheism, and it's about being offensive, then you turn around and tell people, they can't be offended, tough shit? Then what are you whining about? Either it's ok for you to be offended or it's not, it's OK for other people or it's not, you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the sole right to offense.

[humblebum]

35. "tell people, they can't be offended, tough shit" - that is a common atheist retort that

my comments have been exposed to many times.

[MarkCharles]

18. "a Christian teenager and his atheist mother" Then what, exactly, IS this....

all about?

Two slightly strange people with poor taste.

One of whom is a Christian.

And what religious significance does an image of Santa Claus have?

[Goblinmonger]

23. So are you going to take back your evil atheists comments

about this one since we now know that one of them is a god-fearing Christian?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Many people don't think that gays should be able to marry. What's your point?

[struggle4progress]

14. Perhaps you should complain to Rick Wingrove, who is managing to appear

in much of the media coverage of this, identified as affiliated with NOVA Atheists or American Atheists

As I've noted in the past, Wingrove isn't particularly good at message selection. He can't seem to decide whether the issue is the commercialization of Christmas, or the county's rules on holiday displays, or growing the membership of NOVA Atheists, or vandalism, or whatever. Frankly, it doesn't seem to matter much to him as long as he gets coverage. As far as I can tell from the coverage, the mother referenced in these stories apparently belongs to his NOVA Atheists group, so perhaps its not pure coincidence that he's the public face of the vandalized display

[trotsky]

17. And you're helping him.

Nicely done!

[Goblinmonger]

24. OK. So Wingrove's a dick.

What your point? You still haven't taken a stance that the government shouldn't be doing what they are doing. Still attacking the atheists. Malcolm X ruffled a lot of feathers, too.

[beam me up scottie]

19. OH MY GOD THEY KILLED KENNY!!!

I mean Jack Skellington:

[Jim__]

32. The picture looks more like a crucified Santa suit than a decapitated Santa skeleton. - n/t

[LanternWaste]

34. Odd anyone would do that to something

Odd anyone would do that to something so obviously intended to provide comfort, warmth and succor-- in keeping with holiday traditions.