Do you feel the presence of God ever?

[hrmjustin]

Have you had a moment where you felt you somehow touched the divine?

I feel the presence of God many times when I pray. When I give communion out in my parish I feel the divine. I see Christ in the faces of people I give communion to. It is a divine moment for me.

[Newest Reality]

1. Always - NT

[grasswire]

2. I thought so in the past.

But now I don't think I believe that God acts in people's lives directly. I see too many chances for good things to happen that would be transformative in lives and those opportunities pass without any divine assistance. I've pretty much lost faith. Evil abounds, unchallenged.

[hrmjustin]

5. It can be scary to feel that you have lost your faith.

I have had that at many times, but I am always able to come back to the presence of God in some way or another. It works for me.

[Control-Z]

3. Nope.

Not once. Ever. I was open. Looking. Begging, at times. But, no. Not even once.

That is why I am atheist now. If your god actually exists, it is an ugly and cruel one, and I want nothing to do with it.

[hrmjustin]

4. Thank you for being honest.

[silverweb]

6. Yes.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I very often feel A Presence. Whether I call it God or Goddess or Nature or The Force or The Universe or The Divine or The One is kind of irrelevant, I think. I've called it all those things at one time or another.

It's a feeling of gratitude, of belonging, of a place in the Cosmos, of unity with all creation, and it's much, much bigger than any dogma.

[hrmjustin]

7. I think the divine calls us in different ways.

[silverweb]

8. So do I.

[stopbush]

9. Do you ever feel surrounded by fairies?

[hrmjustin]

10. NO!

[Deep13]

16. No, elves.

When I'm in the woods. There not real of course. Yes a feeling.

[blkmusclmachine]

11. And some ppl are just touched.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. What I feel

What I feel is the absence of any omnipotent supernatural beings when I hear about people suffering horrible atrocities all over the world. Young Children being maimed in a fire, honor killings, people getting acid thrown in their faces, religious extremists going around and hacking young girls arms off, etc.

Conversely, when i see something inspiring, i feel even more amazed when I think that these things came about with no help from some supernatural agency. When I hear about someone risking their lives running into a burning building, it amazes me that much more because they risked their own health and possibly oblivion itself just to save another. The majesty of a forrest is more amazing when you think of all that challenges each and every organism had to go through to survive.

[Common Sense Party]

13. Yes I have--a few times very clearly.

But, sad to say, not as often as I would like...

Usually when I find there is a distance and I do not get a sense of the divine, it is me that has moved away.

[zazen]

27. +1; God/Divine/Consciousness is there always; it's me who lives in delusion

Someone once said, God is equally present in all of God's creatures, but not all creatures are equally aware of God's presence. It's our conceptualized, egoic self-narratives that distance us to varying degrees. Mine reasserts itself about every 30 seconds. Work in progress . . .

[Adsos Letter]

14. Yes.

I believe it to be related to the Holy Spirit, who Jesus promised to send when he returned to the father.

[Deep13]

15. Yup. All the time.

A lot of things can evoke that feeling. The feeling is real. It's caused by endorphins and other mechanisms that drive human emotion, and not on anything supernatural.

[rrneck]

17. Yes. But I don't call it god. nt

[JDPriestly]

18. Yes.

When I think of people I love. When I think of the miracle of the existence of the universe. And many, many other times.

The other day, a small squirrel was playing within less than a foot of me totally ignoring my presence. I stood there laughing when suddenly, out of nowhere, a slightly larger squirrel appeared, seemed to jump down from somewhere, put its nose right on the little bottom of the smaller squirrel and started pushing and nudging. Both squirrels scurried away. I had to laugh. I felt God's presence in the attention the of the larger squirrel to the smaller one. It was so funny. There was some sort of glow that comes from caring even when it isn't human caring.

What I am trying to say is that I feel God's presence when I feel harmony in the universe and that is often present when two beings acknowledge each other with respect and love and sort of take care of each other. That is similar to the feeling you might have when you are serving communion.

[napoleon_in_rags]

19. Here's a puppy eating a computer:

Last edited Fri May 10, 2013, 07:24 AM - Edit history (1)

edit: I'm just going to leave it at that.

PEace!

[aristocles]

20. When I look directly into a mirror. n/t

[Shadrach]

21. Never

Unless "the divine" is a metaphor for happiness and satisfaction (for example, the feeling at the moment your child is born) but nothing supernatural.

I am curious to know whether you "feel the divine" in any place other than a church, service, or prayer?

It's interesting to known because if a deity is everywhere I would expect to see and feel it everywhere not limited to religious events and venues.

[hrmjustin]

22. I feel the pesence of God outside of prayer.

I feel God when I am doing things like helping others. I feel the presence of God in conversations with others at times. There are times when I do not feel the presence of God.

[skepticscott]

24. You "feel" something

that you arbitrarily choose to call "god". If it makes you happy to call the warm, fuzzy feelings that you get sometimes "god", fine and dandy. But please don't pretend that this is any evidence that such a thing exists outside of your fertile imagination. Saying "it's what I believe" is meaningless flapdoodle.

[hrmjustin]

25. Hey I haven't seen you for a few days. I hope all is well.

I never said it was evidence, I just answered a question posed to me.

[skepticscott]

37. You were asked whether you

"Feel the divine", but you have argued that those feelings are due to "god" rather than to any of the other possibilities suggested, so yes, you clearly ARE arguing that the feelings are evidence of one thing rather than another.

[hrmjustin]

38. You have a point. I guess I consider it proof to me.

[rug]

23. Yes.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. not really

[Inkfreak]

28. I think so. But questions plague me.

I guess I'll just have to see how it all plays out at the end.

[hrmjustin]

29. Questions are always good.

It will all work out in the end. That is my view.

[mindwalker_i]

30. I thought I did

When I saw Mohammad's face on a piece of toast.

[joeyCMK24]

31. can't say I have

I was catholic until I was about 13 and I grudgingly became agnostic...I say grudgingly because I didn't really want to, it's just the way I saw reality. I wanted there to be a god and an afterlife but I just couldn't see how it was plausible. Despite spending 13 years going to church and all that, I can't say I really felt a divine presence. I used to pray a lot too. Maybe I was doing something wrong, IDK. But sometimes something will happen in my life that is either so coincidental or suggests fate was at work that leads me to reconsider my agnosticism. Again, no clue. It's too big of an issue for any human to tackle, i think.

[hrmjustin]

33. Welcome to DU my friend!

[dballance]

34. You are SO normal

For those of us who choose to question the things we're taught from such a young age that are just "fact" and we should never, never question them it can be pretty darn tough and agonizing. I don't give much time to any organized religion.

I do, however, give all my support to people who wish to be spiritual; who wish to find something greater than just themselves in life. That's such a wonderful open door to living and appreciating everything and everyone we have the opportunity to experience in life.

We're puny insects within the scope of the universe we now know to exist. So what! I believe that all the cogs and wheels turn together to make something great. I may be a small cog today but tomorrow I may be the biggest, best wheel.

Enjoy life!

[DesertFlower]

32. no, but i do see god in mountains,

trees, sky, ocean, etc. i guess i'm kind of a pantheist.

[LiberalAndProud]

35. Some things and some people are awe inspiring to me.

I don't find God at the center of them, but I do experience feelings of wonder.

[Leontius]

36. Almost always at the points in daily life where it becomes still.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Yes, and it's different from other kinds of peace and contentment

and it comes up unexpectedly.

[okasha]

48. Precisely.

Good to see you here again.

[refrescanos]

40. yes

Being a Christian, I felt inspired to write a poem about the Holy Spirit. I felt like something was with me.
It smelled like flowers in the room after a while.

[hrmjustin]

41. Welcome to DU and welcome to the religion room.

[refrescanos]

43. Thanks

[refrescanos]

42. getting back to church, not about God but a messenger

I had not been to church in quite a long time (taking care of my father). I went to Christmas mass... I was stewing about what some Christians say about non- Christians and the afterlife. My parents did not go to church: my mother had died four years ago and my dad had passed away in September. So, I'm sitting there stewing and stewing before the start of services.

Suddenly, I don't hear anything but I get this thought in my head, so vivid it is almost like it was spoken:

"They are with HIM"

I felt such comfort, I started crying for joy.

I thought about it later, and the way it was "said". "It" almost seemed bored, like, How could you doubt????? Still gives me smiles when I think about it.

[mr blur]

44. I saw a UFO once, but I have no evidence, so you'll just have to believe me -

Isn't that how it works?

Anyway, it felt like a close encounter, and you can't prove that it wasn't.

[hrmjustin]

45. Ok!

[cbayer]

46. I have some very sane and rational friends who do believe they

have seen or had encounters with UFO's.

While I tend to think this is not possible, I can't totally dismiss their experiences.

We generally agree that they believe it, I don't and that's ok all the way around.

I certainly don't see any point in arguing about it.

[LTX]

47. Not particularly easy to explain, but

I feel the presence of god most acutely when I am puzzling through a mathematics problem or a potential evolutionary event-chain. Perhaps it is the emergent sense of duration and perspective in these tasks that is the cause.

[el_bryanto]

49. I have indeed. nt

[hrmjustin]

50. Congrats my friend on your 4000th post!

[moobu2]

51. No.

I have experienced states of mind that if I didn't know any better I might think some outside force like a God could be influencing me. But I never forget that those feelings are the result of the effects of serotonin or dopamine on my brain. I just never get to the point of thinking that my thoughts are being controlled by gods, voodoo, witchcraft, ghosts or anything like that.

[edhopper]

52. And here is one of the big problems with belief

when subjective perception subjugates objective reality.

I have seen this argument with people who believe in ghost, UFOs, psychics and other phenomena where I have been told;
"it's just what I believe" or "I experienced it or felt it, so it's true for me."

And no amount of evidence showing how others believe things that are obviously untrue cannot dissuade them from their belief.

[cbayer]

53. Because one has not experienced it does not make it obviously untrue.

The problem is that some things can't be scientifically validated or invalidated and those things rely solely on the subjective perception of those who experience it.

What baffles me are those who feel that because they have not had an experience, that experience is invalid for others - "obviously untrue".

If one has never experienced love, does that mean that it doesn't exist? If I can't prove that it does, is it obviously untrue?

Why do some people feel the need to deny the beliefs of others, when those beliefs do not threaten their own rights? Why do some people care so deeply about denying rights to GLBT people when those rights in no way threaten their own?

[trotsky]

54. Do you think Fred Phelps' opinions on homosexuality are "obviously untrue"?

How can you make such a statement if you haven't had the religious experience he has?

[edhopper]

55. Or one has experienced it

and came to realize that though they thought they were connected to something divine, it turns out that it was just their subjective interpretation of a more common psychological occurrence.
And when they did look more objectively at what they felt, and not just through their own emotional prism, and compared it to similar experiences of others, they discovered that these experiences show more about the person than any divine component to the Universe.

Thor isn't really necessary once we understand lightening and thunder.

[cbayer]

56. And that is fine.

That's a reflection of one's personal experience, but does not necessarily show more about the person than any divine component to the universe.

While true that religion has been used to explain the unexplainable since it first appeared, and that many of these phenomena have been later scientifically explained and rejected as the hand of a god, that does not necessarily mean that all things can be explained eventually.

Perhaps they can and perhaps they can't.

If someone says they have felt the presence of a god and there is no way to prove that they actually experienced something that is in fact measurable, who is anyone else to state unequivocally that they are just wrong?

My question again is why do some people feel that they have to be right about this and, in being right, dismiss and reject the experiences of others?

[edhopper]

57. Well Occam's razor comes to mind for starters

Also I did not say it was just my personal experience against another's.
What i am saying is once I stopped think my personal experience was a better yardstick than a more objective approach, I could see how flawed and erroneous simply relying on experience alone could be.
Once I could see that the logic of other explanations were more coherent than ones based on just my limited and wholly subjective view.

When objectively I see no evidence for the existence of God, then I therefore see these experiences as something other than feeling his presence, since his presence does not exist.

And you start on a slippery slope when it comes to accepting anyone's experience just because they feel it is true.

Can you not easily see many, many examples that you would agree are not true? People doing and feeling things they "know" God wants them to?

[cbayer]

58. Well, of course you discarded personal experience in the face

of there being a more objective way of gathering and analyzing data.

The thing is, there is no more objective way in doing this when it comes to belief in a god or gods.

Occam's razor definitely explains how many non-believers got to their personal perspective on this issue. But for many believers, it may also be the way they got to their beliefs. If one can not fathom or explain things which may be infinite, the concept of a god may be the answer that makes the fewest assumptions.

You can not assert with certainty that the presence of god does not exist. That is the hole in your argument, imo.

I don't see it as a slippery slope to start with the premise that someone's experience is truly their experience. They may be having a perception that can be explained neurologically or psychiatrically. But then again, they may not. To start from the premise that it is real to them seems to me to be the right thing to do. If I have evidence to the contrary and the person continues to hold on to their perception as true, we are treading into the area of a delusion.

But if I have no evidence to the contrary and their belief is neither harming them or anyone else, then what business is it of mine to try to convince them that they are wrong?

[edhopper]

59. And if God is telling them to kill abortion doctors?

or fly planed into buildings?
Or allow a school of girls to die in a fire rather than save them?
Or burn a woman as a witch?

Who are you to say they are wrong.

You may say you see those as delusions, but why? Why is some one feeling the presence of what they think is God, based solely on their own perception, more valid than these? Because of what you believe God would want? Why is your truth better than theirs?

People abducted by aliens is real to them. It is caused by a psychological state called hypnagogic sleep.

It's not real, just real to them.

Personal feelings is one of the worst criteria to judge the reality of something.

[cbayer]

60. Did I not make it clear that a line should be drawn when one's beliefs

infringe on the rights of others?

That's a pretty bright line for me and I feel justified in drawing it. We may not all always agree about which side of the line certain things fall on, but those are personal positions around the issues of civil liberties and social justice.

I didn't say I saw any of those as delusions. I said that a delusion is a belief that is firmly held despite strong evidence to the contrary.

Alien abduction experiences can sometimes, but not always, be explained as a hypnagogic or hypnopompic phenomenon. I know perfectly sane and rational people who make claims of experiences that can not be explained. But they also can't be disproved, and as long as they do not present a harm to themselves or others, or impair their ability to care for themselves, why would I bother to try to dissuade them.

I certainly would not be in a position to categorically state that they were wrong.

And no one is in that position when it comes to a belief in god.

There are many things that can not be measured where personal feelings are the only way to judge the reality of something. To reject those feelings is to lose one's humanity.

[trotsky]

64. Billions of believers draw that "bright" line in a different place than you do.

Some strongly believe that human life begins at conception. Their religious beliefs cause them to conclude that abortion is therefore murder. Pretty bright line there, don't ya think?

Who are you to tell them they're wrong?

You've put yourself into a philosophical corner, and you'd rather continue to portray those who disagree with you as intolerant monsters so you can bask in your own self-righteousness at the expense of any shred of intellectual consistency or honesty.

[cleanhippie]

62. Google the God Helmet. That alone pretty much refutes everything you claim.

But understanding how our brain actually works doesn't seem to be something you're interested in.

[cbayer]

63. I'm sorry, but there is just too much hilarity in this post to not respond.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304394004013473

http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm?volumeID=25&editionID=215&ArticleID=2097

Being able to reduce variables and replicate findings are the hallmarks of good scientific research. Being able to analyze data is the hallmark of a good lay person who has strong beliefs about science and data.

BTW, even Dawkins himself felt nothing from the "God Helmet" (the name itself should be a clue that this research might demand a closer and more critical look before putting it out there as in any way valid).

As to your last statement, well, I will just let those that know me laugh their butts off at that one.

[trotsky]

65. While the results of the "god helmet" may not be conclusive,

the fact that experiences of "the divine" can be artificially reproduced at all is a very important finding, and one that you choose to ignore and instead mock and belittle others. Which, oddly, is something you roundly condemn when you think others are doing it. Why the double standard? Why should anything you say be taken seriously?

[cleanhippie]

66. Yes, your post was just too hillarious not to respond to. And we are laughing our butts off.

Laughing at your consistent hypocrisy and your unwillingness to accept that most of, if not all of, the claims about the "divine" and the supernatural nonsense you call religion have all been shown to be so implausible that they can be dismissed as self-delusion. But hey, ignorance is bliss, they say. Is it true?

[MellowDem]

61. It's a completely meaningless, nonsensical question

It's like asking whether a person ever feels the presence of Orange. Or Blue. Or Bookshelf.

"God" on its own can be defined in any way. "God" is "nonsensical, intangible idea". So one saying that they feel the presence of a "nonsensical, intangible idea" means nothing to me on its own.

Further, how a person intereprets the source various feelings they have is not proof of that source. If I have a stomach ache after eating a bunch of ice cream, I may truly believe some devil is causing it, sent to me by my mean neighbor. That is, what I feel is the source isn't much proof of anything. And if a person is raised, indeed indoctrinated, in a belief system that tells them that these are the sources of the feelings humans have, based on no evidence, then it brings their interpretations even more into question.

Funny how those who believe in religion and many times are indoctrinated in religion all interpret feelings all humans have as being from their specific god or gods exclusively, right in line with what they've been indoctrinated with.

When I was a Christian, I swore I had moments of the divine. I had feelings of awe, feelings of wonder, feelings of emotional empowerment or exhaustion, many of these brought on by religious ceremonies meant to do just that. I attributed them all to god. Now that I'm an atheist, I still get all those feelings, but they aren't part of some manipulation to make me attribute them to some unverifiable, unknowable source.