What is prayer?

[durbin]

Is it an overt act, or an act of meditation, or both?

Do people who pray to whatever or under whatever belief system they claim to subscribe-to, do they find benefits from the act?

Can those acts of prayer be objectively measured, or is asking for such a critical scientific analysis of the act of prayer an unfair study?

Are there actual objective studies out there about the benefits of prayer and the people that engage in prayer? (If so, I am ignorant of all of them, so this is not an attempt to disprove or disapprove of prayer, just a simple question from not knowing.)

Is prayer a skill one develops over years? Can children pray? At what age should children be taught to pray? How does one teach a child or an adolescent or an adult to pray?

Are there requisite positions, attitudes, beliefs, or thoughts required for engaging in prayer?

Can one be religious, a member of a religion, and willfully not engage in any prayer? If so, which religions, and how does one abstain when others of the same religion engage in prayer?

Lots of questions, no answers from me. I'm simply curious as to what other people's thoughts are about the common human activity we call prayer and what it means to others, and how it is carried out.

[cbayer]

1. While you say you don't have answers, what are your thoughts about these questions?

[durbin]

2. No who hasn't thought about prayer in the USA? We all have heard about it or done it.

I think I asked enough questions for people with some experience with prayer to respond to one or more of them.

[cbayer]

3. Wait, I'm confused. Aren't you the fellow who just wrote a long post

about all the religious people you have spent time with and had deep discussions late into the night with? And didn't you say you had lived with a minister for a time.

In light of that, I am surprised that this never came up, since you are so curious about it.

What makes you think a lot of atheists and agnostics want to learn anything about this? I would venture that most atheists and agnostics give it little, if any thought.

Are you truly interested or is this flame bait?

[durbin]

5. No, surprisingly, we never discussed the act(s) of prayer, I respected their

decisions and their activities, whatever day of the week, whatever time of day.

I never intruded with my "curious" nature upon their acts of prayer, which were usually done outside of my viewing, by the way.

I respect people with sincere religious beliefs, but I would never ask about their prayers in person. The internet seems to be the best place for anonymous discussion of this topic, honestly.

And, by the way, my questions here, have more to do with the nature of what is prayer, something practiced by dozens of religions for the last few thousand years, why the curiosity about my past over the last 50+ years? I went some nice places, met some nice religious and non-religious, non-Chrisitian, non Jewish, non Muslim non anything people, and yet you're curious about my life and not willing to venture into an answer to my questions; questions any religiously trained American should have answers to, I assume, (having been born out of the USA, but a US citizen by birth, 50+ years ago, I had two American parents, not religious, but Americans from birth).


By the way, it seems you are very wary of my questions, and unwilling to answer, but want to question me more?

Why? Maybe prayer that hard to talk about for many believers.

[cbayer]

10. If asked sincerely, I don't think religious people would have any problem discussing

their views on prayer IRL.

What religious topics did you discuss with these people?

I was just interested in your views on your questions before sharing mine because I do think this may just be flame bait....

in which case, I'm not interested in sharing my views at all.

At any rate, it hasn't been my experience that prayer is hard for believers to talk about if some one is genuinely interested in their thoughts.

[rug]

4. Assuming prayer is communication, the best analogy is how we communicate with each other.

There was an earlier thread about prayer in which Mindfulness was suggested as one method. Centering prayer is another example.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=83160

If your questions are sincere you will find the beginning of answers there.

[durbin]

6. Thanks, will study.

Anything else to add to my questions? Anyting that that thread didn't answer?

[rug]

9. There's a lot to be said about prayer that isn't a true/false answer.

We'll talk again.

[dimbear]

7. There's a remarkable amount of prayer available for your computer, but almost all Buddhist.

Prayer wheel gifs, some very beautiful. I'm not sure just how effective it would be to have your electronic device repeating prayers in the background, but it's no great trick of programming. You probably have viruses doing it right now.

[durbin]

8. Buddhist prayer centers, I lived next door to one for a summer

It was in London.

They refused to talk to me on prayer days. I was the hippie next door.

It was when I was obnoxious and about 20. I have pictures of me next to Big Ben that summer with a 28" waist, I was just a kid, and very irreverent back then.

[durbin]

11. As this thread seems to offend people who pray, I will

shut it down in a day or so, since it seems to bring no answers, no attempts at answers, and a link to a thread that is hardly closely related to my questions.

I understand I can shut this thread down if I just self-delete the first post on the thread.

I realize it's early Friday night in the USA, and people are likely out with their lovers for dinner on the East Coast, or just finishing the last two hours of work on the West Coast or eating lunch in Hawaii.

I will leave this up for 24 more hours, see if anyone religious wants to do more than question me for asking some rather profound questions about what actually is the religious act(s) of prayer.

[cbayer]

14. Offends people that pray? Where do you get that idea?

It had been up a total of 72 minutes when you wrote this and had a total of 3 respondents, at least two of whom don't pray (I presume dimbear doesn't pray, but I don't know about rug).

You are funny. But feel free to self-delete any time you want.

[goldent]

29. Most posts like this are not really questions, but attempts to draw people in and then mock them.

It doesn't take too long to realize that the Religion group is not that much about religion. While there are certainly exceptions, mosts posts quickly descend into sniping and pissing contests.

[Mike Nelson]

12. I was just thinking about...

...this as I've been asked to "send prayers" on facebook for specific people. Now, a few friends have asked for "Prayers for Colorado." It is very common... it can't hurt... but I wonder how much good it does. My belief is that nobody needs to pray for the fires to stop in Colorado (or other related stuff) because, I feel, "God" must certainly know that already. I think it might be wiser to pray for the firefighters' safety. Maybe there is an "evil" that caused the fires and there is a conflict between some evil force and "God" going on? I guess people associate Gods with the weather... I think that's why some people don't believe in Climate Change - it takes away God's power.

[Mike Nelson]

13. I thought it was an interesting discussion...

...I also hope it didn't offend anyone.

[durbin]

16. Agreed, I thought that the concept of prayer was very worthy of

discussion on a religions forum about religions, about which in all religions I have come across prayer plays such an important part.

I'd appreciate more answers to my questions, more insight into what people are experiencing and have learned and can teach us about the act of prayer. Perhaps that is not possible here. Perhaps there needs to be a separate forum about he mere act of prayer, not those other forums that ask us to pray for certain people. I see a few here, many others all over the internet.

Another question: Does the internet mean that more prayers than ever are being said? Are those prayers getting more results than ever before, like Youtibe is spreading more visual and auditory insights into people's lives around the world? I'm just wondering, if prayer is so much of a common experience around the world, dont' people who pray get more results by asking a few more thousands of people to pray for whatever they want to be prayed for because they asked for this on the internet?

[Mike Nelson]

21. My thought is that you...

...do not pray for specifics. Like a red bike, for example. You can't tell nobody you want a red bike and expect a one to suddenly appear under the Christmas tree. You also do not pray for a fire to end. It will burn itself out - sooner with firefighters and water. Instead, you pray for the victims to accept and find comfort. You pray that God's will is done, not your's...

[durbin]

24. I wanted a red bike and got one at 10 years old.

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm not sure that was prayer, exactly

[cbayer]

15. People on DU often ask for "good vibes" and sometimes ask for prayers.

It's kind of like just keeping someone in your thoughts or hoping for the best, I guess.

I found your reply thoughtful and not at all offensive.

[Mike Nelson]

18. Thinking good thoughts...

...sending prayers, well-wishes, light, vibrations, whatever... it can't hurt.
It's nice to know someone is concerned & wishes you well.

[cbayer]

20. Agree, I don't care much what people call it and I don't think it is always asking

for an intervention to occur.

[Mike Nelson]

22. Agree - nt

*

[durbin]

23. Is that what prayer is? Is that all prayer is?

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:53 AM - Edit history (1)

[NoOneMan]

17. Ancient New-Age, Self-Help Meditation

[durbin]

19. Can you be more specific, or give links?

I agree, prayer is both ancient and "new-age". But I'm not sure how you weigh in on this concept or practice.

A few more sentences would help define your opinion on this. I bet you just wanted to be brief, and get your thoughts out there in some sort of "shorthand", that others could understand.

I must admit, I'm not comprehending. Is prayer as good or beneficial as it was a few thousand years ago?

And on the "art" of prayer, I have yet to get a response that talks about children or adults or others in-between learing to pray effectively. Does it matter?

[NoOneMan]

27. Self-affirmation, self-reassurance, etc

While people are consciously asking something to fix their problems, they are semi-consciously believing then that their problems will be solved (by them or other forces). Doing so may bestow confidence in the pray-giver and produce positive outcomes in people "good" at it (people who believe their own fantasies). Some only ask for peace though, or use it as a pathway to obtain a peaceful mind (facilitated by a fantasy, but facilitated none the less).

I think children learn by fire. A series of "positive" coincidence may correspond with prayers of a certain nature, leading them to believe that particular nature of prayer works, leading them to be able to give themselves reassurance via that method of prayer in the future. The best become better believers, and better responders to prayer. The worse may say screw it.

[rurallib]

25. my wish list given to a magic sky guy.

[xchrom]

26. liturgical christians have a tradition of both meditation and prayer. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Templeton foundation Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer.

http://www.templeton.org/what-we-fund/grants/study-of-the-therapeutic-effects-of-intercessory-prayer-step-replication-and-exp

Unlike the original Byrd study, this study suggested that intercessory prayer had no effect on complication-free recovery from heart surgery.

[kwassa]

30. Prayer is the act of turning toward God

Noun

A solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship.

or the Divine or the Great Spirit or Ultimate Awareness or whatever one believes is the ultimate reality.

and being open to hear some form of direction or information, or merely to express gratitude.

It is the basic spiritual act, or practice. It can certainly be learned, and developed as a skill.

[dimbear]

31. Just for clarification, it's different from a spell, incantation, or cantrip because it's directed

toward a socially acceptable god.

[durbin]

32. What is a "cantrip"?

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Not familiar with that term.

[dimbear]

33. A cantrip usually means a witch's spell, but it can be any sort of small magic.

I love the sound of that word. Nice ring to it. It comes up in H P Lovecraft every so often.

[rug]

34. In Britain, it's usually a deceptive move; a sham.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cantrip

Sort of like the OP.

[cbayer]

35. Ya think?

Deja vu all over again?

[rug]

36. Yup.

We'll find out soon enough.