Religion
Related: About this forumcbayer
(146,218 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,368 posts)Willing to kill his son, sleeping with his servant and then banishing her and their son when he gets a son with his wife, pretending that his wife is his sister, so that the people giving him sanctuary get trouble when they think they can marry her ... the only 'redeeming' thing about Abraham is that he does what God tells him. Like circumcision, and the willingness to kill his son.
If you wanted a holy book with examples of just good moral behaviour, then Abraham wouldn't appear in it.
rug
(82,333 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,368 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,368 posts)I'm not saying that they thought he was a dick when they wrote the stories in the first millennium BC; I'm saying he's an obvious dick now, and yet he's still held up by some as admirable. And no-one revises the book, even if they secretly agree he's a dick.
rug
(82,333 posts)If he was not considered a dick then, it's important to know why not. Just as it's important to know why he's considered a dick now. That's more productive - and more honest - than revising it with the times.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)And that right there was the first big commandment point from a primitive religion. Obedience.
The second one being, of course, that the priest will tell you what god wants you to do. You won't be able to figure it out on your own!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,368 posts)The details of his 'life' are absurd; but even the idea that one person was the known source of a religion a good thousand years before any archaeological evidence of the society starts, and about another 400 before they wrote it down, and he wandered around the sites they knew but then their ancestors went to Egypt for a couple of centuries, they came back, and they could identify it all, is just a transparent justification for why those particular people were 'given the land by God'. An idea some people still try to use.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)There are times it reads like someone threw together two books into one in the same storyline.
What gets me is the city of Troy was considered to be a myth amongst serious archaeologists because it wasn't mentioned in the Bible.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)She apparently took a runout powder, as they say.
In view of Abraham's ways, that's credible.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)dimbear
(6,271 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)and those that share your POV?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)feel the need to kill?
But what about believers in general? Do you feel superior to them?
Can you wrap your head around the fact that some people believe sincerely and are good people who share your goal of peace on earth?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)do not believe in that.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I admit throughout are history many Christians did not have the same view.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Because if you do, we could settle this whole "religion" thing between the two of us for all time.
One question before we start,...should we charge for tickets?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)And what makes you think I spoke for anyone but myself?
I have no wish to "settle" this whole religious thing. I wish for tolerance and greater understanding between people who see the world differently.
Your OP was meant to offend, wasn't it?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)It's a perspective shared by many anti-theists and could, not surprisingly, be offensive to jews, christians and muslims all in one swipe.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....and Charlton Heston,...who also battled the apes.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The really SAD thing are the ones that watch a Right Wing TV preacher who alternates between Bible passages and articles from World Net Daily.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Jesus is.
So, what's your point?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)You can't prove it but you still believe it.
That's not always such a bad thing.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)What do you drive?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)People crazy.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)We seem to be kindred spirits in that respect.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....and a lady freaking out and crying about Boehner saying Republicans want to cut Social Security and Medicare.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)and listening to some batshit crazy teabagger debate Howard Dean on the radio.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)is DAMN OFFENSIVE to millions of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. (As would be your lack of capitalization of proper nouns.)
Mote, eye, plank, own... figure it out, cbayer.
Southside
(338 posts)I was spiraling into darkness until I read your post. Felt like I was ambushed by darkness till you turned on the light. From now on I will stay out of the religion threads or only read threads that have been rec'd. Wow this thread caught me off guard.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)I am grateful.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that you have no wish to "settle" anything, because that would mean deciding that some people's worldview is much closer to the truth than others, and that all opinions, beliefs and "faiths" are not equal in their connection to reality.
There is no way to promote "greater understanding" between anyone without fostering agreement on what is true and what is not, what is real and what is not. That's the most important "common ground" and the best way to for, "coalitions" for people or groups to work towards "common goals" that you can have. Despite your claims to want those things, you still can't grasp that they won't happen in any meaningful way if people follow your philosophy of everyone being right, and every opinion being equally valid.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The whole notion of a mighty kingdom having dominion over all is the shit that keeps the species in a perpetual state of war.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)right and everyone else is wrong.
That includes believers and non-believers.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It wasn't that long ago when you would run into Christians who claimed if you didn't believe in their brand you MUST be worshiping Satan.
Oh hell, we STILL have that.
I just heard someone recently claiming Christians pray to the sky and Muslims pray to the ground so that means Allah must be the Devil.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)But there is a growing interfaith movement that takes a different tack and there are more people who are taking the position that there is more than one way.
Interestingly, some of these interfaith groups include non-believers and "spiritual but not religious" folks.
These groups are supporting liberal/progressive causes and speaking up for each other. You can see this particularly among younger people.
There will still be bigots and those that wish to destroy the other, but I'm rooting for those that see the commonalities and can put aside the differences.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)As far as interfaith groups and supporting Liberal causes,...I'm old enough to remember when a kindly old minister would say we have a responsibility to care for God's beautiful creation. That was back before the Right Wing infiltrated the church and replaced the guy who used to march with the environmentalists with the guy who claims God put all the oil and trees there for us to use.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Religion is here to stay. It will change, but it's not going away.
Things were indeed better before the RW infiltrated and took over.
I'm old enough to remember when we changed the course of history during the civil rights and anti-war movements. Much of the change came from interfaith coalitions that included a variety of believers and non-believers.
And I have "faith" that we can take that hill back.
In order to do so, we will have to be careful to differentiate who share our values and who does not. When all believers are painted with the same brush, that doesn't happen.
I would ask that you consider that, as the believers that post here probably share many of your values.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)For me I think my faith sustains me through this life.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Damn shame a chunk of it is going towards guys who call themselves "Doctor" and wear business suits.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I agree that some TV clergy get paid too much but the reality is most churches the clergy do not make money at all.
And Christians do help to feed the hungry.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)youth in our parish.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)That one sentence beautifully highlights how wrong you are in your whole posting philosophy here.
We have conflict because people think that how deeply felt and fervent their belief or "faith" is has anything to do with how true it is (the hallmark of religiously based thinking), rather than basing the strength of their convictions on the strength of the objective evidence supporting those convictions (the hallmark of the skeptical, rational thinking that serious and intelligent people base things on).
Conflicts are settled by reaching greater and greater agreement on what is really true, based on the accumulation of more and more evidence, not by whiny folk saying "Nyah, Nyah, you can't prove I'm wrong, so I'm just as right as you!!" It happens in science all the time. That's why you don't have thousands of sects of scientists, each doing their own thing and each thinking they're just a little bit righter than all the rest. But not in religion, because the people there think that faith should trump evidence, and that their beliefs need have no rational connection to reality.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)No big deal.