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real Cannabis calm

(1,124 posts)
Sat May 18, 2019, 04:56 AM May 2019

Who knows some "prayers" are actually theurgy?

Theurgy (pronounced, the·ur·gy) consists of requesting Divine or supernatural intervention in human affairs.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/theurgy

the link was so funny [on edit, I kept it because the "free dictionary" uses the term "Egyptian Neoplatonists" OMG! LOL Upon initial review of the definition, it appears concise and accurate, until EVERY aspect of the website is analyzed.

In fact: Actual prayer consists of praise or worship of a deity or deities.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who knows some "prayers" are actually theurgy? (Original Post) real Cannabis calm May 2019 OP
It's funny how theurgy passes over into the occult. DetlefK May 2019 #1
During the Renaissance and afterward, science and magic intertwined... real Cannabis calm May 2019 #3
Science is an offshot of magic. DetlefK May 2019 #5
"Egyptian Neoplatonists" means Hermeticists. DetlefK May 2019 #2
This is the only reference I found to Egypt; and it is accurate... real Cannabis calm May 2019 #4
The Corpus Hermeticum... DetlefK May 2019 #6
Here is a small portion from a book, I am writing real Cannabis calm May 2019 #7

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
1. It's funny how theurgy passes over into the occult.
Sat May 18, 2019, 05:18 AM
May 2019

The Renaissance in Europe was a complicated time for Christianity. Reformation, hysteria about witches, the 30-year between the catholic and evangelical power-blocs... and occult christian sects were springing up everywhere.

Those sects were a major problem for the christian mainstream, because those sects were largely based on the same biblical, jewish and philosophical scriptures as the christian mainstream, they just interpreted them differently.

Those sects and cults mixed Christianity with magic and there was a MASSIVE scholarly debate going on at the time, where people were arguing back and forth (on an entirely fact-free theoretical basis, of course) why these magical rituals DON'T work while prayers DO work.

For example, it was argued that any effect produced by a magical ritual is just a hallucination sent by Satan.

real Cannabis calm

(1,124 posts)
3. During the Renaissance and afterward, science and magic intertwined...
Sat May 18, 2019, 10:05 PM
May 2019

Copernicus is an example of a scientist, who was ostracized by the Church.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
5. Science is an offshot of magic.
Sun May 19, 2019, 04:46 AM
May 2019

Science as we know it came to be by a string of historical coincidences:
* In the late Middle-Ages, the spanish philosopher and mystic Ramon Llull made the greek concept of laws of nature popular again in Europe.
* The occult Hermeticism contributed the concept of exploring the world through systematic experimentation.
* And mathematicians like Newton, Pascal and Mersenne contributed the concept of formulating these laws of nature as mathematical equations.

And once you had all of these combined, the Age of the Renaissance ended and the Age of Enlightenment began.

real Cannabis calm

(1,124 posts)
4. This is the only reference I found to Egypt; and it is accurate...
Sat May 18, 2019, 10:14 PM
May 2019

In 1945, Hermetic texts were found near the Egyptian town Nag Hammadi. One of these texts had the form of a conversation between Hermes and Asclepius. A second text (titled On the Ogdoad and Ennead) told of the Hermetic mystery schools. It was written in the Coptic language, the latest and final form in which the Egyptian language was written.

It does not mention "Egyptian Neoplatonists."

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
6. The Corpus Hermeticum...
Sun May 19, 2019, 04:55 AM
May 2019

The Corpus Hermeticum is a syncretic religious text from the 1st or 2nd century AD. The author was in all likelihood a greek Christian and tried to combine christian, jewish and greek religious ideas into something bigger. (That's why "neoplatonic".)

The Corpus Hermeticum contains a fictional character, an egyptian priest named Hermes Trismegistus. Later scholars misdated the text to have been written millennia ago, in ancient Egypt, during the Age of Moses. (That's why "Egyptian Neoplatonists".)

Throughout history the Corpus Hermeticum was taken at face value and misunderstood to tell the secrets of real egyptian magic-wielding priests. The Corpus Hermeticum's young age was eventually found out by a language-expert in the late Renaissance.



I can recommend the books of Frances A. Yates on this topic.

real Cannabis calm

(1,124 posts)
7. Here is a small portion from a book, I am writing
Sun May 19, 2019, 12:40 PM
May 2019

As a result of carbon-dating and other factors, most historians to agree that several authors are created with creating the Corpus Hermeticum or Hermetic Corpus.

Hermes Trismegistus or "thrice-great Hermes" is purported as author of the Hermetic Corpus, a series of sacred texts, which are the basis of Hermeticism. During the Renaissance, writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, enjoyed great prestige. The "hermetic tradition" refers to alchemy, magic, astrology and related subjects. The texts are usually divided into two categories: the philosophical and the technical. Versions of the Hermetic Corpus deal with philosophy, along with recommended uses of practical magic, potions and alchemy. Later, secret, wax-sealed, written documents, sent through a messenger, originated the term "hermetically sealed."

For Neo-Platonist, the Hermetic Corpus was essential reading. As a divine source of wisdom, Hermes Trismegistus was credited with a massive number of writings, reputed to be of immense antiquity. In Timaeus, Plato claims secret halls contained thousands of historical records, describing the Hermetic Corpus. The Roman Catholic Church considered Hermes Trismegistus a pagan prophet, who foresaw Christianity.

Increasing through 2nd Century CE, the number of illustrations and texts linked to Hermes Trismegistus, makes him remarkable. Most images are symbol intensive and depict him with a book. In this medieval image, he balances a mystical astrolabe, upon a single finger. An astrolabe was used to predict astrological phenomenon, such as planetary positions. In other portrayals, he holds a book with astrology signs. Images imply his book affords mystical influence, over climatic occurrences.

Early Christians believed Hermes Trismegistus predicted Christ; but this Magi is a concocted myth.

In the 7th Century BCE, Greeks began moving into Egypt. Known as "the Father of History," Herodotus visited Egypt and claimed Greeks were the first foreigners to relocate there. After Alexander the Great invaded, in 332 BCE, Greeks introduced bibliomancy and deities, including several – associated with divination – into Egyptian culture.

The Greeks in Egypt or Egyptiotes had a thriving presence in the country from the Hellenistic Period, until the aftermath of the Egyptian Revolution in 1952 CE, when most were forced to leave. By 323 BCE, Ptolemy I Soter, a Greek general, became Pharaoh and established the Great Library of Alexandria (destroyed by fire) and the. Ptolemaic Dynasty, which lasted nearly 300 years. A unique relationship between the civilizations began after Alexander occupied Egypt. Cultural and academic contributions of Egyptian and Greek civilizations to each other are well documented and agreed upon by historians and other academics. Astrology, which occultists claim was invented by Trismegistus, is one of them.

Hermes Trismegistus is apparently a representation of the combination of the Greek Messenger God, Hermes and the Egyptian God of Scribes, Thoth. In Hellenistic Egypt, relocated Greeks noticed a similarity in their messenger god to Thoth, because both deities were associated with teaching humanity lessons. Subsequently, two gods were worshipped as one, in a previous Temple of Thoth, in Khemnu, which the Greeks renamed Hermopolis.

Thoth and Hermes were gods of teaching and writing, in their respective cultures. Eventually, the Greek god combined with the Egyptian god to become a patron of astrology and alchemy. Most Greeks did not accept Hermes Trismegistus in the place of Hermes. Predictably, early Egyptian worshippers were also reluctant to replace Thoth with this new deity.





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