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Related: About this forumNeil deGrasse Tyson Is Really Starting To Scare Conservatives
Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Really Starting To Scare Conservatives
By Amanda Marcotte
Tuesday, March 18, 2014 11:10 EDT
The wingnut panic over the show Cosmos is incredibly amusing to me. Its understandable, because Neil deGrasse Tyson is really good at being clear and concise about science and he eviscerates right wing attempts to muddy the waters with precision. I particularly liked this quote from an interview on Inquiring Minds: I claim that all those who think they can cherry-pick science simply dont understand how science works, because science, unlike theology or musical taste, isnt a matter of just taking what you like and leaving the rest behind. What is interestingand threateningabout Cosmos is it asserts interconnectedness of science. Evolution and the big bang theory are inseparable, and knowing how old and vast the universe is makes it much, much easier to understand how evolution works.
This runs strongly counter to the conservative approach to science. Conservatives dont want to be perceived as anti-science, so they claim a general support for it and then just suddenly and coincidentally have reservations about science that runs against their political interests. So you have people who wouldnt dare dream of saying that physics as a field is wrong, but somehow still manage to convince themselves the that laws of physics are suddenly suspended when they point to the conclusion of man-made climate change. Or they have to accept that sexual reproduction, by its nature, creates descent with modification, but they somehow decide that this cant be true over vast expanses of time. Cosmos makes that kind of cherry-picking hard to pull off. Tyson knows that if you understand, for instance, how dog breeds came to be, you understand evolution and cant reasonably deny that, over much longer periods of time, you could get way, way more genetic diversity through natural selection.
In my post last week about these issues, I asked why Christian fundies are much less interested in building the case against the old-and-vast universe, even though they clearly dont believe in it any more than evolution, than they are trying to sow doubt about evolution. This, even though the age and the size of the universe tend to argue against their god more than even evolution does. I neglected to mention that I suspect the main reason is tradition. The fight between evolutionary biologists and fundies predates many of the theories about the universe and certainly predates the popularization of those theories. Its an arbitrary accident of history. You know, like a lot of evolved features are.
I cannot emphasize enough the arbitrary nature of the attacks on evolutionary theory. Fundamentalists are not interested in crafting legitimate criticisms of science. They just want to cough up a bunch of random reasons to disbelieve the science so that their followers can latch onto that as an excuse for why they reject science, and thats it. Thats why they put astrophysics mostly on ignore and focus on evolution, because all their followers need to know is that criticisms exist and they can feel good about believing a bunch of bullshit.
More:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/18/neil-degrasse-tyson-is-really-starting-to-scare-conservatives/
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)"Therefore it is false!"
Like there is any evidence for Creationism.
I did notice while viewing that he started with planned selection, then moved onto unplanned selection. As a cat lover, however, I was put off by his obvious bias towards canines over felines.
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)derived for a personal agenda of one or the few. Many people who like to be lead will 'believe', to their dying breath, therefore carry out this agenda under a stigma (or cloud), 'in the name of God!'
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)catbyte
(34,425 posts)There aren't any Great Dane nor teacup Yorkie sizes cats. There are a lot of different coat types, but they are all basically the same size, with minor differences. I like to think that cats just won't have it, LOL.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Cats: "Sorry, only on my terms."
"You want me to fuck that? Yeah, I don't think so."
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)http://www.purringangelscattery.com/SizeChart.html
There are teacup cats who are apparently about 1/3 the size of a normal cat. Apparently these are growing in popularity.
And Main Coons or Savannahs on the other end, who can have a healthy weight double that of the average cat
Speculatively, It seems to me there's more reason to breed more types of dogs, as they served in several functions, from transportation to protection to hunting, vermin control, companions, etc. Cats mostly were companions or vermin control. You dont need a ton of size differences for that.
I would also speculate that noone has bothered to breed a larger cat because at some point, you are just adding a bobcat or mountain lion to your household, and he may decide to eat your face at some point. I imagine the demand to try and breed a great Dane size cat is not there, because a person with that desire can just pull a Tyson and buy a tiger. But there's no reason it wouldn't be possible to breed one with time, desire, and funding
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)more clearly. I read somewhere that canines have a more "slippery" DNA which allows for the massive range of differences, as opposed to the smaller extent of differences we have made in cats.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)are generally solitary. That social need already existed in canines, as well as humans, so it was easier for canines to bond with humans. That's probably part of the reason why the canine-human relationship is much older than the feline-human one.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Cats are less obviously egregious md most nuanced in their sociality, and the reasons they became domesticated with humans is different from dogs (apart from it being about sources of food).
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Cats are social, too. They are just social in a different way.
Just this week it came out in a report that cats apparently domesticated in Ancient Egypt much earlier yah previously thought.while it may be true that canines domesticated earlier, it may not be true. And it may depend on where it happened with what population.
valerief
(53,235 posts)The domestic cat has been bred to be more social with humans. Canines, before bonding with humans, were already social animals (they lived in packs), and that was probably why they bonded with humans first. Canines were already social creatures like humans.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Yes, hunting is mostly solitary for them, but that is not the only aspect of being social.
Here's the report I was talking about:
@CBSNews: RT @CBSSciTech: Ancient cat skeletons found in Egypt may push back the date of cat domestication by nearly 2,000 years http://t.co/6upiobUr2R
valerief
(53,235 posts)tell me the link is okay. It couldn't find that link, so I didn't click it.
Anyway, I was talking about wild cats and wolves before they bonded with man. The wolves were already socialized. The cats were basically solitary. The canine-human bonding came thousands of years before the feline-human bonding (even if feline domestication came almost 10,000 years ago). Once both became domesticated, the socialization with their own species and with man became something different. Domestic cats are far more social than wild ones.
BTW, I love cats and dogs and have no preference. Er, the domesticate ones. I'm very happy to steer clear of the wild ones!
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Response to valerief (Reply #32)
valerief This message was self-deleted by its author.
onager
(9,356 posts)Heard from actual Egyptians when I lived there:
1. Everybody knows about Bast, the Egyptian goddess with the head of a cat. But in addition to her other godly functions, Bast was used as a sort of pain reliever. Statues/dolls of a smiling Bast were called the ancient Egyptian equivalent of "funny face," and used as a distraction for women giving birth, babies who were teething, etc.
2. When a modern Egyptian Mom is trying to feed a cranky baby, she'll put the food up to its mouth and say "mut-mut-mut." Which means "Eat up kid!"
That's a direct reference back to the one kitty nobody wanted to pet in ancient Egypt - Ammut, a/k/a Great of Death, Eater of Hearts, The Devourer. Body of a leopard, head of a crocodile, hindquarters of a hippo. If you flunked your final exam at getting into the Afterlife, Ammut ate your heart. Followed quickly by the rest of you.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)
But none of the rest. Thanks!
WaitWut
(71 posts)As everyone knows, kitty's are a gift from god.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Gothmog
(145,486 posts)I am really impressed with this show and I am glad that the science deniers are worried
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...the way in which he tackled the distaste people feel about being related to monkeys. He derailed that by pointing out that we're related to trees...and then, having captured everyone's attention (trees?), made his point that all life is related and "one." Very nice move, and he did it more than once. He neatly pointed out that DNA means we're all unique and special, as well. Which also takes away some of the emotional bullets used by the other side to keep people anti-evolutionary.
That's what we have to rememberand what this show seems to be remembering. We're not dealing with intellect but emotions in regards to anti-evolutionists. To them, science simply says, "you're an ape and nothing special." Why go with that when you can go with "you're a unique creature made with love and care by the most powerful being in the universe...."?
I'll add that they picked the right man. He's being remarkably gentle and beguiling in getting science virgins and the science-phobic to see, as he puts it, the "poetry" of science.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Clear?
Loves me some NTD!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Usually the term 'golf clap' is a slow, low, sarcastic clap meant to show derision. Kind of the opposite of what you meant.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=golf%20clap
blackspade
(10,056 posts)A different meaning for me I guess.
I always used it in the 'well played' context.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)it looks like the tides are turning, and the term is gaining a positive meaning of late.
Which is going to be terribly confusing for people like me.
valerief
(53,235 posts)approach to their "reasoning."
tweeternik
(255 posts)the_sly_pig
(741 posts)Arguing for creationism comes from a lack of faith. The religious need swords to enforce their view. If they truly believed they would endeavor to promote religion positively, but they have taken the opposite track trying to discredit science.
A lack of faith indeed.
erronis
(15,326 posts)If they can't defend their views the only thing to do is try to discredit reason and science.
Other than a few cases of Christian Scientists and whacko religionists allowing themselves and their children to die without the benefits of modern science, I believe most of them will visit the E.R. when they need to.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)Judi Lynn
I have just seen one episode from the new Cosmos - and I would say I outright love how Neil Degrease Tyson is able to communicate to everyone else, the dept of our universe - I loved Cosmos in the days of Carl Sagan - and Neil Degrease Tyson had some really big feet to follow up on - and I think he did that just fine - and I'm looking forward to the next episode... Its aired on National Geography channel here in Europe... And a few episodes later than in the US I guess...
Diclotican
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)I believe we've had 3 new Cosmos, if I'm not mistaken.
It's great they have decided there will be room for a new version of Cosmos. We need far, far more really good programs. The human race deserves worthwhile efforts like these.
National Geographic runs these programs one night later in the US, after the Fox Network airs them on Sunday nights. We wait and record our shows from National Geographic. We may be seeing the same shows during the same weeks.
No doubt the remaining shows there and here will be great. It's so good to hear you get them, too!
onager
(9,356 posts)I've been sort of idly wandering the Internetz, checking reactions to the new "Cosmos."
Lots of people are watching with their school-age kids, including many people who were young when they saw Sagan's original "Cosmos."
Except for...guess who?...religious fundamentalists, everybody seems to love it.
Some viewers guess that the biggest target audience is kids, but note that the show works for anyone of any age with an interest in science but not much knowledge of it. Including adults who only took the required courses in high school/college and haven't studied much since. I'd agree with that.
Personally, I love it. Like yourself, I DVR it from NatGeo (to avoid the commercials).
VWolf
(3,944 posts)But here goes ....
So far, I liked the original Cosmos better.
I can't explain why. Perhaps it's because I watched the original during my grade school days and it was all new to me. Perhaps it was the choice of music in the original (I LOVE Vangelis). Perhaps it's because Carl was from my neck of the woods. I really don't know.
That said, the new Cosmos comes a very, very close second IMHO.
VWolf
The new Cosmos is not the same as the original one - no doubt about it - I was 8 when it was aired back where I live, and I had to promise a lot of things to be allowed to se the series - as it was aired rather late in the evening... And It was absolutely new compared to what I was used to..
And Carl Sagan had something I doubt Tyson have in the same degree - a passion for space - and our place in it - Tyson is a good teller of what is out their - and our place in it - but he do not have the same passion that Carl Sagan had... But then again - Sagan had a passion for space I doubt many would have the ability to follow up on.. But I think he does a fair job - Tyson that is - and I think I would say he might show up as a far better than we have seen it... I at least would do my best to follow this series as best as I can - and I think he will do a great job.... Even though he is no Carl Sagan..
Diclotican
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)because it is such an important point:
In everyday use, theory means a guess or a hunch, something that maybe needs proof. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.2 It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Eager for more of this good stuff. Watching it, I thot to myself, God is soooo BIG!!! Why cannot we accept that maybe God set it all up this way? I like a big God. I love learning about the stuff on Cosmos. It is a long time since I was in school and frankly the science knowledge has grown so much that I feel I am starting all over. Great experience to watch these shows. Only two so far, but I have learned lots. The tree thing was a delight!