Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:55 AM Apr 2012

'Sounds of Silence' Proving a Hit: World's Fastest Random Number Generator

ScienceDaily (Apr. 13, 2012) — Researchers at The Australian National University have developed the fastest random number generator in the world by listening to the 'sounds of silence'.

The researchers -- Professor Ping Koy Lam, Dr Thomas Symul and Dr Syed Assad from the ANU ARC Centre of Excellence for Quantum Computation and Communication Technology -- have tuned their very sensitive light detectors to listen to vacuum -- a region of space that is empty.

Professor Lam said vacuum was once thought to be completely empty, dark, and silent until the discovery of the modern quantum theory. Since then scientists have discovered that vacuum is an extent of space that has virtual sub-atomic particles spontaneously appearing and disappearing.

It is the presence of these virtual particles that give rise to random noise. This 'vacuum noise' is omnipresent and may affect and ultimately pose a limit to the performances of fibre optic communication, radio broadcasts and computer operation.

"While it has always been thought to be an annoyance that engineers and scientists would like to circumvent, we instead exploited this vacuum noise and used it to generate random numbers," Professor Lam said.

more

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120413161235.htm

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
'Sounds of Silence' Proving a Hit: World's Fastest Random Number Generator (Original Post) n2doc Apr 2012 OP
I don't understand what going on, but it sounds cool krispos42 Apr 2012 #1
On random numbers and vacuum: DetlefK Apr 2012 #2
Interesting, but why are randomly-generated numbers so important? krispos42 Apr 2012 #3
some examples: DetlefK Apr 2012 #4
Ah, I see. krispos42 Apr 2012 #5
Random numbers are also very important in cryptography. LAGC Apr 2012 #6
There's an online-game: If the program can predict your next move (up or down), it gains a point. DetlefK Apr 2012 #7
What about Shnoll effect? tama Apr 2012 #8
ANU does grant access to their test results and also to their random number generator. Jim__ Apr 2012 #9

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
2. On random numbers and vacuum:
Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:12 AM
Apr 2012

1. Every random-number-generator has a coherence-length. This means, after maybe a billion turns exactly the same numbers will start popping up again in exactly the same sequence. There are mathematical/computational tricks to increase the coherence-length of a random-number-generator, but you will never get a perfect chaos. That's why random numbers created by a computer are considered "pseudo-random numbers".

2. Quantum-mechanics allows such a perfect chaos, because it considers matter being in several states at the same time, each one with the same probability. Only measurement (be it by a sentient being or by just another particle nearby) determines the state. There is no way to predict future behavior with absolute certainty.
If you make the system big enough, the quantum-nature becomes more and more irrelevant and predictability arises.

3. Consider a box with nothing in it. Absolutely nothing. If you calculate the electromagnetic field inside the box, you will get a quantized solution, showing that there is no electromagnetic field, ON AVERAGE. The mean amplitude of the electromagnetic waves is zero, but probability distributions consist of more parameters than just the mean (an infinite number of parameters, just like the parameters in a Taylor expansion). The standard deviation of the electromagnetic field is not zero.
This means, there are fluctuations inside your empty box, but the overall mean is always perfectly zero. These fluctuations are described as virtual photons, which appear at random, have a random direction, and disappear at random.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
3. Interesting, but why are randomly-generated numbers so important?
Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:25 PM
Apr 2012

I mean, outside of the Lotto machine's quick-pick function?

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
4. some examples:
Sat Apr 14, 2012, 04:24 PM
Apr 2012

Monte Carlo-simulations depend on random numbers.

It's easy to see why GOOD random number-generators are crucial.



Example 1: Monte Carlo-integration
Draw some shape on a piece of paper. Want to know the area? Draw a square around the shape. Now toss a pinch of salt on the drawing (-> random numbers).
You know the area of the square and the number of grains of salt inside it (supposedly).
Count the grains of salt inside the shape and you get the ratio of the shape's area vs the square's area. (Providing you have a good random number-generator which delivers an even distribution and not the whole pinch ending up in a heap in the middle of the square.)

No calculations. Just generating a shit-load of random numbers and counting where they end up. The more complicated the shape, the better fares this method compared to others, especially in higher dimensions.



Example 2: Monte Carlo-simulation
You have a set of laws or a theory (e.g. the laws of physics how particles interact or how a single human interacts with other commuters/passengers/neighbors). Now you want to know how these behave in the big picture:
What will you see in the detector of your particle accelerator? How will people move if they suddenly want to leave the room at the same time and there is only one door?

You create a template-object and fill it with random attributes: speed, direction, angle of impact... Once you overlay thousands or millions of possible scenarios, you will see which outcomes are most likely.

For example, thats how physicists calculated what the signal of a Higgs-boson at the LHC should look like.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
6. Random numbers are also very important in cryptography.
Sat Apr 14, 2012, 10:21 PM
Apr 2012

Especially for tasks such as entire hard-drive encryption, as a preventative measure in case your computer gets stolen.

Currently, most crypto programs require you to mash on your keyboard or move your mouse around randomly to generate a secure random stream. But this technique sounds like it would be much more secure and reliable.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
7. There's an online-game: If the program can predict your next move (up or down), it gains a point.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:36 AM
Apr 2012
http://www.phi-t.de/mousegame/

Was offline for a long time. It's based on three neuronal networks: One is looking at your past 3 moves, one is looking at your past 6 moves and one is looking at your past 9 moves. If you develop a pattern, you'll lose.



My point is: Humans are horrible at creating random numbers.

Jim__

(14,082 posts)
9. ANU does grant access to their test results and also to their random number generator.
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 06:49 AM
Apr 2012

Their tests are continuously running, but they may have missed this effect in their results. You can access their test results. Maybe you can see this effect in those results. They also give you access to their random number generator, so you can create your own streams of random numbers and run your own tests against them. I'm sure they would appreciate your input as to any anomalies you can spot in their tests.


Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Science»'Sounds of Silence' Provi...