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grumpyduck

(6,234 posts)
Fri Feb 24, 2023, 10:19 PM Feb 2023

Question for astronomy buffs,

I tried looking for an answer to this online a week or two ago, but didn't get much of anywhere.

We hear about clouds of space dust being out there. But where does the dust come from? AFAIK, dust is minute particles of something, but that "something" had to be solid and come from somewhere.

Can you enlighten me?

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Question for astronomy buffs, (Original Post) grumpyduck Feb 2023 OP
Probably from under my refrigerator. Check for cat fur. Ocelot II Feb 2023 #1
Cosmic colllisions can have small amounts that Tetrachloride Feb 2023 #2
AFAIK, it's just yous ... dweller Feb 2023 #3
Well, that explains why sometimes grumpyduck Feb 2023 #5
Yes I think it does mean that. Haggard Celine Feb 2023 #6
Yeah, but where did *that* extremely dense matter come from? Ocelot II Feb 2023 #12
That's the question. Haggard Celine Feb 2023 #14
Creatio ex nihilo? Ocelot II Feb 2023 #15
Here, hope this helps ✌🏻 dweller Feb 2023 #8
Is Starbucks between 48 and 49? 3Hotdogs Feb 2023 #9
1st Avenue & 75th St. dweller Feb 2023 #10
Ah. Thanx. 3Hotdogs Feb 2023 #11
Cool! Ocelot II Feb 2023 #13
very nice chart! CloudWatcher Feb 2023 #16
Oh, wow! PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2023 #20
Not Exactly ProfessorGAC Feb 2023 #19
I suspect much of it comes from star ejections and star explosions. Gore1FL Feb 2023 #4
I believe I heard on NOVA or some other type show. Pobeka Feb 2023 #7
Most of the gas is primordial. Igel Feb 2023 #17
Thanks so much, folks. grumpyduck Feb 2023 #18

grumpyduck

(6,234 posts)
5. Well, that explains why sometimes
Fri Feb 24, 2023, 10:38 PM
Feb 2023

I feel so old...

But that leads to another question: does that mean that all the matter in the universe was already there when the Big Bang occurred?

Haggard Celine

(16,845 posts)
6. Yes I think it does mean that.
Fri Feb 24, 2023, 10:48 PM
Feb 2023

To have a big bang, there must have been an extremely dense matter that exploded into all that we have today. In order to have a Big Bang, there must have been an infinite amount of pressure that was released at that time, pressure that is built up within matter.

Haggard Celine

(16,845 posts)
14. That's the question.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 11:46 AM
Feb 2023

No matter how far you go back, you come to the question of where the stuff originated. We really don't have any idea how the stuff got to where it did and when it did.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,855 posts)
20. Oh, wow!
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 11:03 PM
Mar 2023

I'm familiar with the periodic table, but I've NEVER seen it shown like this. I'm in awe.

A couple of decades ago, at a B&B, there was a high school or college chemistry book from the late 19th century. I spent time looking at it, and it was clear they hadn't yet figured out the Periodic Table as we now know it, and how it worked, or why it was like it is. I still regret that I didn't ask the woman running the B&B if I could have it or buy it from her.

Anyway, this periodic table explains better than anything I've ever seen or heard how we started with Hydrogen and Helium and every single element afterwards comes from the stars.

Thank you for this. Thank you, thank you.

ProfessorGAC

(65,018 posts)
19. Not Exactly
Tue Feb 28, 2023, 07:08 PM
Feb 2023

There was nothing. Then a big bang.
In the first couple of minutes something odd happened and space grew faster for a bit, than the energy could radiate.
This caused a, so far only established by mathematics, "freezing" of some energy into matter & antimatter.
For reasons not yet fully understood, more matter formed than antimatter. As antimatter anticipated with a like amount of matter, all that was left was matter & recreated energy.
Most experts agree all the simplest elements (mostly hydrogen plus a little helium) were formed in the first 3 or 4 minutes AFTER the Big Bang.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
4. I suspect much of it comes from star ejections and star explosions.
Fri Feb 24, 2023, 10:31 PM
Feb 2023

Inside the stars is where the heavier elements formed. If a star is big enough to start fusing iron, it will super nova, and spread all manner of shit all over.

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
7. I believe I heard on NOVA or some other type show.
Fri Feb 24, 2023, 10:50 PM
Feb 2023

After the big bang, there were no "solid" objects, it was a plethora of atoms, that then had to via minute gravitation attraction combine slowly into molecules, and the molecules then started to clump together, finally little particles the size of dust would have appeared.

Ultimately giagantic numbers of these particles finally merged to form stars, planets, etc, which were also flying all over the place until ultimately collectively captured my mutual gravitational fields into solar systems etc.

The universe is very, very old indeed!

Igel

(35,300 posts)
17. Most of the gas is primordial.
Sun Feb 26, 2023, 07:26 PM
Feb 2023

Nothing can be as dense as necessary for the first few seconds to have included matter. Matter can't exist at those temperatures. Atoms fall apart, neutrons and protons fall apart, quarks can't really be. Usual view is that the universe was an energy field, very small, very high energy, and the energy levels are conventionally reported as temperatures. But since temperature involves matter, it's not *really* temperature but what the temperature would have been if there had been matter. No, it's not the clearest thing--they're reporting energy densities as temperature because we have no "hook" into what the hell an energy density in an empty void.

As the energy field that existed during inflation expanded and cooled, eventually (by which I mean "way less than a second&quot fundamental forces and elementary subatomic particles appeared, since energy is matter and matter is energy. When everything got sufficiently chill, what was produced was about 75% H, 25% He, and truly ridiculously small traces of Li and even smaller traces of other elements.

The theory is that the first stars formed from all that gas quickly went supernova after having produced a lot of lighter elements (stopping around iron, but with some spill over to slightly higher elements). When they exploded, that added elements heavier than H and He to the mix--and there's the first round of dust.

Second generation of stars included some of that dust, and when *they* went supernova even more heavier elements were formed. (Astronomers call all those elements metals--there's H, He, and "metals"--don't tell your chemistry teacher). And produced dust.

Neutron stars and white dwarfs would have been formed. Carbon-detonation supernovas (1A supernovas) would have produced some heavier elements, too, and neutron stars would have produced a lot of the heavier elements--gold, platinum, lead, etc. And that's more dust.

Third gen stars of sufficient size are dead and produced more dust.

Then there are stars--main sequence stars, neutron and white dwarfs--that are on rare occasion shredded by black holes. Yes, more dust.

Yet all that dust, the matter that isn't H and He and mostly in existence since the Big Bang, is maybe 1% of what's out there. All the asteroids and planets that formed and smash into each other formed from dust to begin with (yeah, yeah, dust to dust).

Stars are almost entirely hydrogen and helium, slightly tainted with heavier elements.

JWST has recently produced some qualms in the astronomy pop sci press reporting on publications about how early galaxies formed. There's a timing problem here, though. The preprints already triggered research that's posted as preprints (astro has an incredibly quick turnaround time) that showed a small tweak to the standard cosmological model can probably accommodate the observations that recently (as in last week) made it into official publication. In fact, the attitude was, "you know, we should have assumed that this would have been the case."

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