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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 03:56 AM Nov 2015

Oldest stone tools in the Americas claimed in Chile 17,000 to 19,000 years ago.

Archaeologist Tom Dillehay didn’t want to return to Monte Verde. Decades ago, his discoveries at the famous site in southern Chile showed that humans occupied South America by 14,500 years ago, thousands of years earlier than thought, stirring a long and exhausting controversy. Now, Dillehay, of Vanderbilt University in Nashville, has been lured back—and he is preparing for renewed debate. He reports in PLOS ONE today that people at Monte Verde built fires, cooked plants and meat, and used tools 18,500 years ago, which would push back the peopling of the Americas by another 4000 years.

If his team is correct, the discovery will “shake up both the archaeology and genomics of the peopling of the Americas,” says archaeologist Jon 
Erlandson of the University of Oregon in Eugene. Genetic studies suggest that the ancestors of Paleoindians first left Siberia no earlier than 23,000 years ago (Science, 21 August, p. 841), so Dillehay’s new dates suggest they wasted little time in reaching the southern tip of the Americas. And the find raises questions about the North American record, where no one has found widely accepted evidence of occupation before 14,300 years ago. “Where the hell were the people in North America at that hour?” wonders archaeologist David Meltzer of Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas.

When Dillehay began his work at Monte Verde in the 1970s, most researchers thought the Clovis people, who hunted big game in North America starting about 13,000 years ago (using calibrated radiocarbon dates), were the first Americans. When Dillehay reported traces of huts, hearths, human footprints, and artifacts that were thousands of years older, he was forced to defend every detail of his dig to skeptical colleagues. By now, though, most archaeologists accept the older occupation at Monte Verde and a few other sites.

When the Chilean government invited Dillehay to survey the full extent of Monte Verde, he at first refused. “I was tired of it,” he says. But in 2013, fearing another team’s survey might damage the site, he returned, hoping to spend a few weeks collecting new evidence of ancient plants and climate by digging 50 small test trenches across a 20,000-square-meter area. But the dig turned up 39 stone artifacts, including flakes, a “chopper,” and cores, embedded near plants or animal bones that had been burned in small fires at 12 areas. This suggests a “spotty, ephemeral presence,” he says.


more


http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2015/11/oldest-stone-tools-americas-claimed-chile

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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aidbo

(2,328 posts)
1. It seems reasonable to me that the populating of the Americas by humans would proceed along..
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 04:49 AM
Nov 2015

..the coasts of the continents first and could then spread inland from established settlements.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
2. The Clovis paradigm of 13,000 is finally buried
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 05:41 AM
Nov 2015

Data and findings suggest many different modes and waves of ancient man settling the new world.. though the largest is the Clovis culture migration but there were others and much older.

NY Times article.2014

Discoveries Challenge Beliefs on Humans’ Arrival in the Americas

Discoveries Challenge Beliefs on Humans’ Arrival in the Americas

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
6. By +/- 60 kya boats are part of migration and settlement of Australia.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:30 AM
Nov 2015

Islands are important to human survival in areas with huge predators, and floating on water one is safer from land predators. And what does the path to the Americas have, innumerable islands along the rugged, volcanic Pacific Rim. In the Mediterranean too, early humans made it to some islands. Think Greece, an island world. Humans adapt to water, little problem, huge asset.

Having lived on a river in the Amazon, traveling either on foot in the jungle or by canoe, I'll attest that in a roadless world, a river is the supreme byway--no maintainance, free, no hills, and full of free fish. Fish are an important part of survival.. Almost everyone lives on the river shore, rarely penetrating deep into the jungle.

Today, my jungle village of 45 years ago has a road. Note the vehicles at the annual gathering, still held on the playa of the river nonetheless.

 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
9. Lovely picture.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 12:47 PM
Nov 2015

And I like your signature, it reminds me of something Carl Sagan said: "We are a way for the Universe to know itself."

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
10. Panoramio image from Google Earth.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 01:22 PM
Nov 2015

I enjoy surfing the cyber-globe's photography image layer to revisit places I've traveled and lived. What a great new resource, geolocated photo sharing done globally. Great tool in archaeology studies too.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
3. Is it possible the first migration was from prehistoric Polynesians?
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 06:32 AM
Nov 2015

Anyone peek at currents then?

Then again, would it be anymore difficult to skirt the Antarctic coast than the massive glaciers to the North during the last Ice Age?

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
7. We have solid evidence of the human occupation all along the northern Pacific Rim, no real gaps
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:36 AM
Nov 2015

And we have DNA evidence linking the occupants of the Americas to Siberia and the Asian Pacific Rim arctic.
[center]

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
11. One group doesn't preclude the other....
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 01:59 PM
Nov 2015

DNA tracing may be difficult given the systematic extermination of native peoples.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
4. The lack of evidence in North America is not surprising
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:03 AM
Nov 2015

The far greater linguistic diversity in South America suggests it was settled first. There were simply not a lot of people in North America before Clovis.

There are a couple of ways they could have arrived. Maybe down the coast from Alaska, stopping only briefly at now-submerged sites and moving along quickly. Maybe by accidental drift voyages from somewhere in the vicinity of Japan, where the currents can take you straight to California.

They wouldn't have had the navigational skills of the much later Polynesians, but they certainly were at home on the water.


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
8. The diversity may be an expression of the ecological nature of the settled areas.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:45 AM
Nov 2015

Linguistic diversity is a shorter-lived evolutionary process than is genetic diversity, and much shorter than the span of settlement, or such diversity could not arise. So, this negates it being useful evidence of temporal span in a conclusive sense. Also, things like empires erase diversity once present and when linguistic without writing, how would we know? No, DNA and material evidence are reliable indicators and contraindicate earliest settlement in the south. Early arrival in South America is generally regarded as indication of sea travel along the Pacific Rim. The Pacific Ocean is half the world.

The Pacific is BIG. Imagine Marco Polo arrives in Xi'an and asks, "Where is that fabled city of gold?" If they had known of the Americas, the Chinese would have answered, "Just go another 180 degrees east!"

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
13. I don't think all the data is in yet
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 02:03 PM
Nov 2015

for your forgone conclusion that it ONLY came down from the northern coastal sea route.

There are anomalies in recent findings at neolithic sites that suggest that something else was going on too, many coming out of Brazil and other places on the east coast of South America suggest African migration and or eastern migration on a small scale

I agree the largest route was what you discribe

Strange the oldest ancient civilizations are still only found so far are in South America and not in central or North America..... if it was settled first.... I do think the melting of the north america ice caps might explain that lack of finding anything of substance and the great beasties that lived there at the time might not have helped either


But it is fascinating.

As far as languages goes mexico just did a recent study on all their native languages and it was fascinating that also adds to the mystery . The basque language which is not indo European and neolithic in its roots had some bearing in some Mexican native languages.

Also language studies have shown the root of many
languages came out of the same area that 10,500 year old Gobeki Tepi site is located. which they traced the root of our languages to at least 20,000 years ago through really good academic studies.

So language studies can help us understand
our roots.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
5. Exciting the digging proceeds there. Very different tool assemblage raises big questions.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:09 AM
Nov 2015

No doubt the Chileans will carry out full inquiry in due time. I expect lots more news. Archaeology in the Americas is in its infancy in many ways.

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
14. Evidence shows earliest Americans arrived 6,000 years earlier than believed
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:31 PM
Nov 2015

November 19, 2015

Evidence shows earliest Americans arrived 6,000 years earlier than believed
by Susanna Pilny


New evidence uncovered at the Monte Verde site in southern Chile has now provided further evidence that the earliest known Americans became established in South America even earlier than previously thought.

For many decades, it was believed that the Americas were first populated some 13,000 years ago by big-game hunters from Asia, known as the Clovis people. Evidence of their culture was especially apparent in their distinctly-shaped, pointed stone projectiles, known as Clovis points. However, in more recent decades, the Monte Verde site in Chile revealed that, in fact, some American human populations pre-dated the arrival of the Clovis people.

The evidence found there pushed back the 13,000-year estimation another 1,500 years, when the remains of settlements that used a different kind of stone tool technology were discovered at a Monte Verde site known as MVII. Further evidence at another nearby location, known as MVI, yielded then-inconclusive evidence that indicated the advent of humans was even younger.

Now, archaeologists from Vanderbilt University have taken another look at Monte Verde, in an attempt to find new insights and data on the mysterious humans who passed through—and they’ve already made some new discoveries, according to their paper in PLOS ONE.

Read more at http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113410891/evidence-shows-earliest-americans-arrived-6000-years-earlier-than-believed-111915/#Ohib9IrhTLcG0oxf.99

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