I think hell just froze.

[cleanhippie]

Just a few minutes ago, a Religion regular who defends belief just said that religious experiences are a result of mental illness.

I imagine most extreme religious experiences, like the ones you describe, are symptoms of mental illness. The religious content is the result of mental illness, not the converse.

Yep, he agree that religious experiences are the result of mental illness. Yes, you read that correctly.

I would think he may want to argue what constitutes "extreme", but the agreement is there, and that is a place to work from.



Note: I'm not naming the poster or providing a link, for this is not a call-out of that poster. I just wanted everyone to know that he agrees that religious experiences are a result of mental illness.

[AlbertCat]

1. what constitutes "extreme"

Believing in invisible sky beings with super powers?

That wine and bread change into a specific dead person's blood and body?

That after you die, you go on living, or "come back" as something else?

That people who disagree with your fantasies are immoral?

That praying 5 times a day toward some city is a necessity?

That observing and holding in reverence ancient superstitions are a legit way to live in the 21st century?

etc

etc

[trotsky]

2. Easy.

"extreme" = "all that crazy stuff *I* don't believe"

[cleanhippie]

3. That's what I was thinking!

I'll try to press him on that issue, but I think he saw that question coming an may have abandoned our conversation.

[Mr.Bill]

4. Or, other religions besides his. n/t

[LostOne4Ever]

6. That exactly (nt)

[Warpy]

5. No, those are all ordinary

and are kept in that irrational corner of the brain behind "break glass in time of sheer panic."

The extreme religious experiences would be seeing visions and getting direct messages from gawd (hallucinating) and succumbing to mob psychology and babbling, shaking and falling over. There is even "holy anorexia," the preferred form of bucking for sainthood among ultra religious women.

The worst form of crazy is god crazy because the culture takes such a hands-off approach to so much of it.

[Gore1FL]

7. I had a discussion with a Lutheran Pastor

She suggested that she didn't believe all of the Bible literally. My brother, who goes to her church feels the same way. They cannot answer the question, where is the line between believable and not believable--or suggest it is up to me to decide--which I suppose, as an atheist, I have.

Until they are compelled internally to re-evaluate, your are going to run into a Zeno's paradox of sorts.

[FiveGoodMen]

8. If she can't tell which parts are literal, how does she know what to believe?

If she can tell, then she already has a better moral compass than the bible.

And why couldn't (or wouldn't) an all-knowing god make these things clear?

[Gore1FL]

9. That is close to what I was asking.

It pretty much came down to:

"You don't know what caused the Big Bang, therefore Jesus died for your sins."


It's a Zeno's paradox of progress. You never quite get to the end.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. What i don't get

If they are not going to take the bible literally, why give that book special meaning at all? You could easily make your own book or find another book with those exact same morals that you LIKE without all the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-thought crap you find in the bible.



Or at the very least pull a modern day Thomas Jefferson and take a pair of scissors to the book and remove all the bigotted shit. But like the Jefferson Bible you would probably end up with a very very thin book.

I think if you removed all the bigotted stuff along with all the supernatural events you would end up with the songs of solomon and half of the sermon on the mount at most

[Phillip McCleod]

11. :) plus the word 'begat' repeated over and over ..

[awoke_in_2003]

13. Like Doyle said in Slingblade...

"That one begat this one, and this one begat that one, and lo and behold somebody did some shit"

[defacto7]

12. Didn't someone post an article

very recently that stated that some doctor of ??? concludes that atheists are autistic? It's like a round robin!

Except I think there probably is a connection between religious "experiences" and mental illness whether actually psychotic episodes or just sociopathic lying possibly induced by fear, pressure or habit.