Do the various Jewish, Christian and Muslim sects truly worship the same Deity?

[MNBrewer]

Isn't one of the basic principles of logic the idea that entities (in this case, versions of god) that do not have the same characteristics cannot be the same thing?

[Phillip McCleod]

1. as near as i can tell from history and current events alike..

..the various jewish sects, christian sects, and muslim sects don't even play intramural theology, let alone interscholastic.

[Curmudgeoness]

2. It doesn't seem that way, does it?

But then again, god is all.

[randr]

3. They all need to peek behind the curtain

[dballance]

4. Since When did Logic Ever Matter When it Comes to Religon?

On a more serious tone though, both the Jews and the Christians worship the same god - as I understand it. I am not a scholar on comparative religion. The god of Abraham. I've seen differing opinions about whether or not this is also the god of Islam. I've seen differing opinions about whether or not Jews and Christians worship the same god too.

I think your basic premise is the reason there is disagreement about whether or not these sects share a common god. There are enough differences between the "one true God" in each of those mythologies when compared to each other that logic would dictate they are not all the same being.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. It is.

" I've seen differing opinions about whether or not this is also the god of Islam. I've seen differing opinions about whether or not Jews and Christians worship the same god too."

All three worship the god of Abraham and Isaac.

Same guy.

Judaism came first, to a specific demographic - Jews.

Then Christianity came along, marketed to another, very specific demographic - Europeans.

Then Islam came along, marketed to another, very specific demographic - Arabs.

Three versions of the same nonsense sold to specific groups.

Same god though.

[dballance]

10. I Understand it the Way You Do.

But the last time I googled on the subject there was a whole bunch of stuff about there being a difference between the Jewish/Christian god and the Islamic god. That's probably, in my guesstimation, due in large part to the daemonization of Muslims that's so rampant these days. It's not as easy to hate them and call their religion a false religion if they believe in the same god. But the Christians are doing a spectacular job of marginalizing, hating, and spreading crap as if it were the Crusades again.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. The way I see it is this;

Judaism = singular god with several prophets (Abraham, Moses, Etc.)
Christianity = Triune god with no real prophets, just acolytes.
Islam = singular god with one prophet.


The Jews have a problem with Christianity because they (the Jews) don't buy the bullshit story of Christ.

The Christians have a problem with the Jews because....they don't buy the bullshit story of Christ(!)

The Muslims have a problem with both the Jews and the Christians because neither of THEM buy the bullshit story of Mohammed.

Add the oil, Salt, Butter, Meat and broth and stir until war breaks out.

[dballance]

13. It's All a Real Mess

People killing other people over a magical sky man that was invented a couple of thousand years ago by people who still thought the world was flat, the Sun revolved around the Earth and the Moon was a source of light all its own - not that it reflected the Sun. Not to mention they had no clue the rest of the world was out there - the other continents, the peoples of S. America, N. America, the Far East. They had no clue about the billions upon billions of other stars and solar systems that are out there.

I'm astounded on a daily basis that people actually believe the Torah/Bible/Qu'ran in this day and age when science and plain old observation proves none of them are really divinely inspired works of some all-knowing, all-powerful being. It's so funny to watch them defend the "miracles" and supernatural events within their own dogma while at the same time disparaging other creeds for believing in their particular dogma - all of them with the same amount of objective, scientific proof of their dogma - which is to say NONE.

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. You and I are on the same page, but I take issue with the idea that the "people" thought the earth..

was flat.

I'll grant that the average peasant probably didn't give it much thought, but when he did, he probably figured it was so.

It is my opinion however, that the knowledge of a heliocentric system and knowing the difference between the stars and the visible planets is much, MUCH more ancient than many might acknowledge.

If you look carefully at all of the festivals and celebrations of all of the faiths of the god of Abraham, from Christmas to Easter to Hanukkah to Rosh Hashannah to Ramadan, they ALL without exception can be tied to a celestial event.

Easter is a good example, having been appropriated from much older myth systems, is a celebration of being reborn when the spring equinox arrives.

The ancient scholars knew without a doubt that the earth revolved around the sun and they also knew that the earth was round. They might not have known how far it was from ...say...Damascus to present day Sydney, but they sure as hell knew how long it took to get to the far east via the Khyber Pass.

Regarding the holy books, isn't it funny how many stories there are of great revelations being divinely given to only one person in secret?

I mean, someone walks out of the sea and tells people he had lived in the belly of a giant sea creature for 3 days AND THEY BELIEVED HIM? Or another guy disappears up a mountain by himself and when he comes back he tells a tale of a burning bush that spoke to him and they bought it!

Greatest story ever sold, no doubt.

[Lordquinton]

14. Islam has many prophets

Muhammad is just the latest, they view Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as prophets as well.

depending on who you talk to it's all the same, or all different, from all sects. Of course if you read the bible it seems like different gods from page to page.

As for the crusades, they were not a one way thing, Islam started them, and then kept them going. Kinda like the war of northern aggression that the south started, and keeps the fire stoked to this day.

[bravenak]

20. My understanding was that Christians started the crusades.

The first crusade was called by Pope Urban II with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem. The background to the Crusades was the centuries of Arab–Byzantine Wars and the Seljuq-Byzantine Wars and the recent decisive defeat of the Byzantine army by Seljuk Turks at Manzikert in 1071. The Norman conqueror Robert Guiscard's conquest of Byzantine territories added to the problems of the Byzantine Empire. In an attempt to curtail both dangers, its Emperor Alexios I sought to align Christian nations against a common enemy, requested western aid, and Urban II in turn enlisted western leaders in the cause of taking back the Holy Land.

[Lordquinton]

21. It's all a matter of perspective

Islam had been going on Jihads against the holy lands, and to Constantinople, I suppose you could argue that the Byzantine empire wasn't Europe, but we're back to perspective again.

[bravenak]

24. When the pope orders the crusades. It's like the president now declaring war.

The Arabs did not travel to Europe and start sacking London.
Just saying.

[Lordquinton]

25. They did try, actually

The moors went through north Africa and into Spain, where they tried to move through France, but they were stopped there, then pushed out of Spain a few centuries later.

They also took Jerusalem in the first place, the crusades were to take back the holy land, not some random thing.

[dimbear]

5. As I learned logic, yes, because the empty set is self identical.

Luckily for them, formal logic hasn't much to do with the Abrahamic religions.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Keep in mind that this deity is obscured and revealed only through interlocutors.

So differing accounts of the obscured deity are just noise mixed with the data transmitted through the interlocutors. It is all very convenient in case some glaring idiocy is found in the revealed wisdom.

[MNBrewer]

7. If more sects claimed to be presenting A truth rather than THE truth,

I might have more sympathy for that viewpoint.

[dballance]

11. Yep, the Christians who won out, got rid of the gnostics.

They got rid of the gnostics and their gospels because the gnostics taught that one could have a personal relationship with "God" without any need for prophets, priests, etc. It was through shared knowledge and personal growth that one came to know "God." That doesn't go very far to filling the coffers of the church when one can find "God" all on one's own without those interlocutors' assistance.

[onager]

8. Well, they're sort of like sleazy insurance sellers that way...

You know - it probably won't help you make a sale if you knock the other guy's product.

In my experience, the Big Three of Monotheism only play the "same god" card when they are trying to be all ecumenical and stuff, and temporarily make nice with somebody from the other team. We see this on DU a lot, in That Other Group.

I don't think any of them really believe it for a second. e.g., imagine a Xian walking into a mosque during Friday prayers and announcing that. Or a Muslim ranting about the wonders of Allah at a Franklin Graham Crusade.

I'm also such a cynical old curmudgeon, I suspect when back among the in-group, they have a good laugh about what those other stupid infidels believe.

In fact, I've actually seen that. When I lived in Saudi Arabia, the holidays of Passover, Easter and Eid al-Adha (the Muslim Feast of the Sacrifice) all happened at roughly the same time.

The Saudi Gazette, the local English-language paper, decided to print a special edition honoring the Big Three - yes, including Judaism. Since the Jewish myths of Moses, Abraham, etc. also feature in Islam.

(To fully appreciate the irony of that - this newspaper NEVER datelined a story as coming from "Jerusalem." Stories from that city were datelined as coming from "Occupied Palestine.&quot

In Saudi Arabia, I lived\worked among Americans, naturally mostly Xians. When the big special Easter Etc. edition of the paper came out, they were FURIOUS.

Because the paper naturally printed the Islamic version of the Jesus myth - he was crucified and went straight to Paradise, but never rose from the dead. Therefore denying...er, um...the central belief of Xianity.

[uriel1972]

16. Hmmm I think each person worships their own unique god...

Even though they may say it's the same god as someone else worships.

[Arugula Latte]

28. Coincidentally, each person's god agrees with him/her 100 percent of the time.

Funny how that works.

[uriel1972]

31. Yeppers, funny about that... nt

[Ron Obvious]

17. Sure,

In the same way that the Father Christmas who brings presents to children on Christmas in the UK is really the same Santa Claus who delivers them in the US.

I don't see how the concept of 'same' applies in a comparison of imaginary beings.

[defacto7]

18. But....

isn't St. Nicholas Santa? I'm completely confused.

[Arugula Latte]

29. David Sedaris on Santa:

While eight flying reindeer are a hard pill to swallow, our Christmas story remains relatively dull. Santa lives with his wife in a remote polar village and spends one night a year traveling around the world. If you're bad, he leaves you coal. If you're good and live in America, hell give you just about anything you want. We tell our children to be good and send them off to bed, where they lie awake, anticipating their great bounty. A Dutch parent has a decidedly harrier story to relate, telling his children, "Listen, you might want to pack a few of your things together before going to bed. The former bishop of Turkey will be coming tonight along with six to eight black men. They might stuff you into a sack and take you to Spain, or they might just pretend to kick you. We don't know for sure, but we want you to be prepared."

[Ron Obvious]

30. Loved that story...

In fact the whole book. The bit about trying to explain Easter in French class is hilarious also:

"He call his self Jesus and then he be die one day on two...morsels of...lumber."

[progressoid]

32. Jesus Shaves!

I too love that book. I'm checking out his new audio book from the library for a long road trip next week.

[defacto7]

19. Hellloooo!!! fffffff, ffffff.... bang,bang...

Is this thing on?..... rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Sorry....

May I have your attention please?.......

There is no god. I looked.

OK... it is a good exercise processing belief systems of the ages. I'm just trying to make sure none of you end up believing something by mistake.

[LostOne4Ever]

22. If it quacks like a duck

If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, and quacks like a duck...then its probably a duck.

The God of all three religions hates competition from other gods, dooms you to hell-fire should you not luck out and be (or convert into) one of his chosen people, hates gays, and commits atrocities against entire civilizations for the "sins" of a few people.

I think its safe to say its the same piece of bul....err I mean its the same god.

[Iggo]

23. Dude, it's magic.

New rules every day.

[Stuckinthebush]

26. And we have a winner!

Best post.

[Gore1FL]

27. They would seem to claim to.

However, "same" doesn't mean a lot when all of it is fiction to begin with.

[ShadowLiberal]

33. Well, some of their holy books are the same, others are completely different

Most of the Old Testament is almost exactly the same in the Jewish, Christian, and Islam holy books. So they somewhat worship the same god, but in very different ways in the other half of their holy books.

In a way it's somewhat cultural the differences between the three religions, and nothing more.