Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumWhat do you say about God
(this came up from my post welcoming our new atheist friend.)
I say "I don't accept that there is a God".
I don't say "I don't believe in God" or "I believe there is no God".
To me belief is too mired in subjectivity and feelings without proof.
I leave belief out of it and just say I don't accept it. Without evidence that is the rational thing to do.
How do others see this?
valerief
(53,235 posts)edhopper
(33,216 posts)as well
pscot
(21,023 posts)edhopper
(33,216 posts)I don't go around proclaiming I don't accept God, it's just how I phrase it when it comes up.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)if asked, "What do you mean by atheism" I'd say that I don't accept the existence of gods or any other supernatural beings.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)That generally resets the framework of the conversation.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)not sure what you're saying.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)when asked I start out with the idea of god being foolish nonsense. That generally cuts right to the chase, the one initiating the conversation might expect that their religious foolishness is deserving of respect and I've ended that misconception. Stunned silence or general upset follows if I've trampled on expectations of religious privilege. Either that or they agree and we talk about what a mess religiosity has made of the world.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)I thought you were saying my OP was foolish nonsense.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Iggo
(47,489 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Certainty varies depending upon how people go about defining their preferred deity. I cannot say for certain there is not some invisible, supernatural force holding the universe(s) together, but I'm pretty sure Jormungandr is fucking bullshit.
John1956PA
(2,654 posts)I think that, by telling a religion proponent that I do not believe in an afterlife, I clearly state my position on religion.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)in Judaism. Just saying. So if you are talking to a Jew you wouldn't be answering the question.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)If you ask an ignostic (igtheist) if they believe in god, they would ask you, "what do you mean by "god"? Define god then we have something to discuss."
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I don't believe in human claims of the existence of any god proposed so far.
But for short, I use
"I don't believe in God"
because that is a negative. I don't believe, meaning no positive claim on my part. It's disbelief in someone else's claim.
"I believe there is no God" is an active, positive claim, and open to being challenged for burden of proof.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)but I want to remove it from the sphere of "belief"
BTW I am not trying to start a "what atheist should say" thread, just seeing how others phrase this out of curiosity.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Just explaining why I feel that way.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)just clarifying.
BuckeyeBrad
(15 posts)There's a lot of proposed deities out there, and I assume there would be follow up questions when I tell them I really don't have any reason to believing in a deity. I like having some idea of what I'm getting into.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)I don't accept the existence of a supernatural deity (or entity)
which covers more bases.
edgineered
(2,101 posts)nothing in the sense of nothing except for a big unfertilized egg, then creation did not come from what fertilized the egg. A god did not create the universe. The egg was everything already, and with all things being lesser that includes your god.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,321 posts)If someone asks me "Do you beleive in god?" my response is " Belief doesn't enter into it for me. I KNOW gods are mythical constructs. Just as I do not say 'I don't believe in Leprechauns or Faeries or Unicorns. It isn't a matter of belief or the lack thereof. "
I have taken the following position - let us assume for a moment that an entity such as the god of Abraham and Isaac exists; a being/spirit/entity that is capable of breathing universes into existance, who is all knowing, all powerful, etc. If I were to know this being were as real as the keyboard I am typing on, there STILL would be no reason to worship it or pay it reverence. I would want to study it and learn about it, just as I would with any newly discovered organism.
I say that because if the stories written about that entity are indeed true and reflect its true nature, then that god is a total and complete asshole who deserves contempt, not respect. I refuse to give credence to a god who acts so incredibly un-godlike.
The mere fact that the god of Abraham is described to be a petulant, vengeful, jealous, spiteful, malevolent bully (to borrow from Dawkins description) tells me he is entirely a human made mythical construct.
Beief in a god like that - an ancient, Hebrew desert war god - is intellectually primitive thinking.
edhopper
(33,216 posts)I don't know enough about all the Gods that are worshiped, but even if there are ones that are only love and good and peace, they are still assholes for allowing the world to be such a cruel, harsh place for so many.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)Everyone around me knows I have absolutely no use for religion so they pretty much leave me to my own conscience. When pushed I just say "I'm an atheist, no thanks."
The bald faced admission still draws the occasional shocked stare but it doesn't last long. It has to be something they've always suspected.
One good thing about getting to be older than dirt is that one's circle of friends contracts so much that the usual angsty questions the young ask each other become largely meaningless. We're all we have left of people who remember the same times and places, so we don't tend to discard each other over bullshit.
NeoGreen
(4,030 posts)... that is to say, nothing that is not real, exists.
But, I do not say, there is no god, since, a negative, for all practical purposes, cannot be proven.
However, to claim, "That if you cannot disprove god, therefore he exists." is a vacuous truth and is meaningless:
A vacuous truth is a statement that asserts that all members of the empty set have a certain property. For example, the statement "all cell phones in the room are turned off" may be true simply because there are no cell phones in the room. In this case, the statement "all cell phones in the room are turned on" would also be true, and vacuously so, as would the conjunction of the two: "all cell phones in the room are turned on and turned off".
Or I just go into some silly assertion and say "Why Yes, (Vishnu, Odin, Ra, Gaia, Pelor, Loki or whichever) is just FABULOUS, don't you agree?"
However, I think that I may be better classified as an Adeus, since it is more the claim that there is an entity that I wholly reject, since I do accept that there are some elements of "theism" that have some positive effects for Humanity on a case by case basis (e.g. a sense of community, common support and positive activism).
Oh and I like pie....
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)This is it... I add, "Why go with ancient superstitions? Gods are just magic beings made up by cave men. We've figured some things out since then. The supernatural is superfluous."
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)"Do you believe in God?" Answer: No, I'm atheist.
"What religion are you?" Answer: I don't believe in any religion.
I hate saying "Atheist" to "what religion are you?" because it's not a religion.
I don't observe any religion.
Of course that is a separate question than God.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)there are no gods!
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)I also explain that if for some reason there god was real, I still wouldn't worship due to his nature as a genocidal maniac with a serious murder boner.
RussBLib
(8,985 posts)There is no God, I'm an atheist. I don't have time for that bullshit.
If people want to claim the affirmative with no evidence, I can certainly claim the negative with no evidence. The weight of the "evidence" is frankly on my side.
The position that there is no God simply makes eminently more sense than claiming there is, considering all the calamities and disasters and bullshit that people attribute to God. Not to mention the evil, thieving, sexual predators otherwise known as preachers.
I have gotten into conversations about the Bible with "believers" who know next to nothing about the Bible. It's very consistent.
I have never gotten into such a conversation with a preacher, but I'd bet they know barely more than a layperson.
LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)Belief simply means holding a position to be true. I do not hold the position to be true. To me, it has not been proven, and thus I disbelieve.
HOWEVER, this does not mean I hold the contra-position, that there are no gods, to be true either. I highly suspect there are no gods, but it is a position that can never be proven; so I don't hold that position as being true either. Similarly, I can never prove that there are no invisible pink unicorns, but I highly suspect they don't exist.
The fact that some people load the word belief with meaning beyond the idea that the word actually represents is not my responsibility, and I see no reason to tiptoe around their misconceptions about the word.
The problem with saying you don't accept that there is a god, is that it kind of implies that there is a god, but you do not accept him. I would suggest rewording it to "I do not accept the god hypothesis as being true or proven."
However, either way you are stating a belief. The word accept, the way you are using it, means believe.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/accept
edhopper
(33,216 posts)But once people make affirmative statements about their God or godsd, than the can be shown to not exist with some certainty.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Other than that, "I don't hold faith in any gods, " describes my position just fine. Absence of faith, that's me.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)It is the simplest thing to say to shut people up. I guess that I am not a deep thinker as to how I should phrase it or what exactly is said by my statement.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)would dare ask me such a question because they know what I would say and they don't want to hear it. How I speak and live my life makes it very clear in this religious cloud cuckoo land that I am not one of them.
Iggo
(47,489 posts)...then I pick up my guitar and play.
In other words, I don't say anything. I stop talking until they start talking about something else or until one of us walks away. I'm done with that bullshit.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)but I'm SURE the ones we've heard about are made up.