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Lunabell

(6,046 posts)
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 08:56 PM Sep 2014

Study: Science and religion are not only incompatible, religious areas being left behind

Science and religion just don’t co-exist, according to a recent study by economists at Princeton University.

“Places with higher levels of religiosity have lower rates of scientific and technical innovation, as measured by patents per capita,” said Roland Bénabou, the study’s lead author, told Mother Jones.

The researchers used an economic model to explore the relationship between scientific innovation, religious faith, and government power as they formed different “regimes.”

They identified a secular, European-style regime where religion had very little policy influence and science enjoyed great support; a repressive, theocratic regime where the state and religion suppress science; and an American-style regime where religion and science generally thrived.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/09/study-science-and-religion-are-not-only-incompatible-religious-areas-being-left-behind/

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Study: Science and religion are not only incompatible, religious areas being left behind (Original Post) Lunabell Sep 2014 OP
No surprise there, Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #1
When religionists use scientists that believe in a religion as an example cleanhippie Sep 2014 #3
Well, there are scientists who are just nuts Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #10
Sir Isaac Newton was a Christian. He was also an astrologer and alchemist. Manifestor_of_Light Sep 2014 #31
Great example. bvf Sep 2014 #4
Galileo was lucky. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #5
Great read--thanks! n/t bvf Sep 2014 #6
Don't mention it. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #7
Yes, you are so right! JNelson6563 Sep 2014 #9
It's like stopping by your friendly neighborhood bar on the way home. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #13
Most enlightening! JNelson6563 Sep 2014 #8
"He considered the Bible as a book which only the ignorant could take literally" Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #11
And did you know that the bible is NOT misogynistic? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #12
And especially a Catholic apologetic. mr blur Sep 2014 #14
I'm just grateful that they tolerate my presence here on DU. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #15
If you are exceptionally obsequious they will let you curl up by their feet Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #23
Well, so far. mr blur Sep 2014 #24
The wrong sort of people beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #25
I beg to differ. Curmudgeoness Sep 2014 #28
Permanently turned off one of my best friends too. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #30
They said the causation likely went “both ways” progressoid Sep 2014 #2
our religionists quickly dismissed this study as "poorly done". Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #16
That's not fair! beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #17
I tried to point that out but everyone had me on ignore. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #18
Wha? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #19
These New Rules are only for some people here. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #20
Man I really need to update my "How to Be a PDA"* manuals. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #21
My decoder ring has never worked. However, no atheist should be without mr blur Sep 2014 #22
How the hell can one tell if they have you on ignore? AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #27
Well if you have a surrogate your surrogate can tell people that they are being ignored. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #29
Because religion tells you FUCK ALL about the universe or your place in it. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #26

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
1. No surprise there,
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 09:22 PM
Sep 2014

but it is interesting to have data to support it. The more I heard religious people talk about science, or their lack of science knowledge, the more this is apparent.

I always use the example of "super bug" microbes as evidence that there is evolution, and we can watch it happening. All the religious people have heard of super bugs, and they believe that they do exist, yet they do not believe that has anything to do with evolution. WTF.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
3. When religionists use scientists that believe in a religion as an example
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:02 PM
Sep 2014

Where science and religion co-exist, I think they are failing to see the difference between co-existing and compartmentalizing.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
10. Well, there are scientists who are just nuts
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:43 PM
Sep 2014

about religion and God, and they are few and far between. Most scientists are agnostic or atheist for a reason. There are many other scientists who may have a belief in a supreme being, but they do not have any belief in the stories of the Bible being fact...and don't even claim that they believe in the Christian God. Saying that there may be a "supreme being" is not the same as saying that the Earth is 6000 years old, or humans and dinosaurs co-existed, or that there was a Great Flood of the entire Earth.

To point at scientists like Einstein, and say that he was a believer is stretching the truth as far as it can stretch before it breaks.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
31. Sir Isaac Newton was a Christian. He was also an astrologer and alchemist.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 12:48 AM
Sep 2014

Astrology and alchemy are not reputable sciences these days.

Doesn't prove anything.

"Your God is too small!" -- Giordano Bruno, barbecued by the Catholic Church for imagining the universe with many other worlds

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
4. Great example.
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:22 PM
Sep 2014

Advances in our understanding of the natural world through science diminish our need for belief in some mythical entity.

Many believers find this a threat and react accordingly. Just ask Galileo.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
5. Galileo was lucky.
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 11:04 PM
Sep 2014
Giordano Bruno: The Forgotten Philosopher
by John J. Kessler, Ph.D., ch.E.

Filosofo, arso vivo a Roma,
PER VOLONTA DEL PAPA
IL 17 FEBBRAIO 1600

In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly twenty books.

*

Bruno was born five years after Copernicus died. He bequeathed an intoxicating idea to the generation that was to follow him. We hear a lot in our own day about the expanding universe. We have learned to accept it as something big. The thought of the Infinity of the Universe was one of the great stimulating ideas of the Renaissance. It was no longer a 15th Century God’s backyard. Bruno tried to imagine a god whose majesty should dignify the majesty of the stars. He devised no new metaphysical quibble nor sectarian schism. He was not playing politics. He was fond of feeling deep thrills over high visions and he liked to talk about his experiences. And all of this refinement went through the refiners’ fire — that the world might be made safe from the despotism of the ecclesiastic 16th Century savages. He suffered a cruel death and achieved a unique martyr’s fame. He has become the Church’s most difficult alibi. She can explain away the case of Galileo with suave condescension. But Bruno sticks in her throat.

*

By the year 1582, Bruno had issued very science-centered thoughts, considered heretical by the clerical authorities of southern Europe. He had written of an infinite universe that had no room for a yet greater entity called God. That blasphemed against schema outlined by Aristotle and tenets in Genesis taught by the Church and universally believed by low and high everywhere. Bruno’s philosophy negated the mysteries of Virgin Mary, Crucifixion and Mass. He seemed to have been so absorbed in truths he hurriedly exposed that he did think of them as heresies. He considered the Bible as a book which only the ignorant could take literally and the Church’s methods were, to say the least, unfortunate.

*

For six years from 1593, he lay in a Papal prison. Was he forgotten, tortured ? The Papal authorities have till date not summoned enough the courage to overcome their shame and publish the historical records. Bruno was interrogated several times by the Holy Office and convicted by its chief theologians. He was given forty days to consider his position and, by and by, he promised to recant but did not desist from his “follies.” He got another forty days for deliberation but did nothing but baffle the Pope and the Inquisition. At last, in the custody of the Inquisitor, on 9th February, Bruno was taken to the palace of the Grand Inquisitor to hear his sentence, on his knees.

Bruno answered the sentence, of death by fire, with damnation : “Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence against me with greater fear than I receive it with.” He was given eight more clays to see whether he would repent. But that was futile.

Bruno was led to the stake on the 17th of February, 1600. He was offered a crucifix, which he pushed away with scorn.

*

Galileo never met Bruno in person and makes no mention of him in his works, though he must have read some of them. He may not be blamed for being diplomatic enough to withhold mention of a recognised heretic. Sixteen years after Bruno met his fate, Galileo faced the Inquisition in the same hall that had sentenced the predecessor !

Bruno is the numero uno among all martyrs who were persecuted for their beliefs. He was not a religious sectarian, caught up in the psychology of a hysterical mob. He was a sensitive, imaginative poet, fired with the enthusiasm of a larger vision of a larger universe … and he fell into the ‘ error ‘ of heretical belief. He was kept in a dark dungeon for years, for his quest of an order that admits intellectual integrity. And, at the end, he was taken out to a blazing market place and roasted alive.

It is an incredible story. The “Church” will never outlive him. Amen.


http://infidels.org/library/historical/john_kessler/giordano_bruno.html

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
7. Don't mention it.
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 11:56 PM
Sep 2014

We managed to post about Hypatia, Galileo and Giordano Bruno all in one day in here.

Our group rocks.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
9. Yes, you are so right!
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 12:16 PM
Sep 2014

I really enjoy the discussions in here! It's one the few reasons I come to DU for these days.

Julie

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
13. It's like stopping by your friendly neighborhood bar on the way home.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 02:08 PM
Sep 2014
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
11. "He considered the Bible as a book which only the ignorant could take literally"
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:54 PM
Sep 2014

and to think that today, in the 21st Century, we still have to have this conversation....with the ignorant.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
12. And did you know that the bible is NOT misogynistic?
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 01:43 PM
Sep 2014

How is it possible to be both a feminist and a christian apologetic?



Some serious cognitive dissonance there.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
14. And especially a Catholic apologetic.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 02:47 PM
Sep 2014

That needs a whole new form of cognitive dissonance all of its own.

And yet...you see them around here (well, not exactly here but... close by).

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
15. I'm just grateful that they tolerate my presence here on DU.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 03:25 PM
Sep 2014

Okay so they HAVE to tolerate me here but I'll take whatever I can get.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
23. If you are exceptionally obsequious they will let you curl up by their feet
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:30 PM
Sep 2014

and feed you a shrimp every now and then.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
28. I beg to differ.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:57 PM
Sep 2014

One of the first things that made me turn my back on all religion (but I didn't say that there was not god at this point) was reading the Bible and realizing how women were second class citizens while men were the masters. Fuck that. They didn't even mention if a woman was "begatted", just lists of men. Step one for me to become an atheist.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
30. Permanently turned off one of my best friends too.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:25 PM
Sep 2014

Her family was devoutly Catholic so she had to keep going to church until she was 18.

progressoid

(49,952 posts)
2. They said the causation likely went “both ways”
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:00 PM
Sep 2014
The researchers said the findings were correlational, and their study didn’t allow for definite causal relationships to be drawn.

They said the causation likely went “both ways” – meaning, religion probably snuffs out innovation as science weakens religion.


 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
16. our religionists quickly dismissed this study as "poorly done".
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 03:37 PM
Sep 2014

In fact I was pretty much an idiot for even posting it.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
18. I tried to point that out but everyone had me on ignore.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:08 PM
Sep 2014

And according to the New Rules if a person has you on ignore you MAY NOT respond to their posts.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
20. These New Rules are only for some people here.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:42 PM
Sep 2014

I'm sorry, I forgot that everyone doesn't have a playbook and a decoder ring. These new rules are not the admins, they are Proclamations from Very Serious People.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
21. Man I really need to update my "How to Be a PDA"* manuals.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:05 PM
Sep 2014

*Properly Deferential Atheist

I had to buy a heavy duty steel reinforced bookcase just for them.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
22. My decoder ring has never worked. However, no atheist should be without
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:27 PM
Sep 2014

this little device I designed:

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
27. How the hell can one tell if they have you on ignore?
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:41 PM
Sep 2014

I miss DU 2, it told you how many people have you on ignore. I was going for the high score.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
29. Well if you have a surrogate your surrogate can tell people that they are being ignored.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:38 PM
Sep 2014

It is always good to have a surrogate when the going gets rough.

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