Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumStudy: Science and religion are not only incompatible, religious areas being left behind
Science and religion just dont co-exist, according to a recent study by economists at Princeton University.
Places with higher levels of religiosity have lower rates of scientific and technical innovation, as measured by patents per capita, said Roland Bénabou, the studys lead author, told Mother Jones.
The researchers used an economic model to explore the relationship between scientific innovation, religious faith, and government power as they formed different regimes.
They identified a secular, European-style regime where religion had very little policy influence and science enjoyed great support; a repressive, theocratic regime where the state and religion suppress science; and an American-style regime where religion and science generally thrived.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/09/study-science-and-religion-are-not-only-incompatible-religious-areas-being-left-behind/
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)but it is interesting to have data to support it. The more I heard religious people talk about science, or their lack of science knowledge, the more this is apparent.
I always use the example of "super bug" microbes as evidence that there is evolution, and we can watch it happening. All the religious people have heard of super bugs, and they believe that they do exist, yet they do not believe that has anything to do with evolution. WTF.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Where science and religion co-exist, I think they are failing to see the difference between co-existing and compartmentalizing.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)about religion and God, and they are few and far between. Most scientists are agnostic or atheist for a reason. There are many other scientists who may have a belief in a supreme being, but they do not have any belief in the stories of the Bible being fact...and don't even claim that they believe in the Christian God. Saying that there may be a "supreme being" is not the same as saying that the Earth is 6000 years old, or humans and dinosaurs co-existed, or that there was a Great Flood of the entire Earth.
To point at scientists like Einstein, and say that he was a believer is stretching the truth as far as it can stretch before it breaks.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Astrology and alchemy are not reputable sciences these days.
Doesn't prove anything.
"Your God is too small!" -- Giordano Bruno, barbecued by the Catholic Church for imagining the universe with many other worlds
bvf
(6,604 posts)Advances in our understanding of the natural world through science diminish our need for belief in some mythical entity.
Many believers find this a threat and react accordingly. Just ask Galileo.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)by John J. Kessler, Ph.D., ch.E.
Filosofo, arso vivo a Roma,
PER VOLONTA DEL PAPA
IL 17 FEBBRAIO 1600
In the year 1548 an Italian boy was born in the little town of Nola, not far from Vesuvius. Although, he spent the greater part of his life in hostile and foreign countries he was drawn back to his home at the end of his travels and after he had written nearly twenty books.
*
Bruno was born five years after Copernicus died. He bequeathed an intoxicating idea to the generation that was to follow him. We hear a lot in our own day about the expanding universe. We have learned to accept it as something big. The thought of the Infinity of the Universe was one of the great stimulating ideas of the Renaissance. It was no longer a 15th Century Gods backyard. Bruno tried to imagine a god whose majesty should dignify the majesty of the stars. He devised no new metaphysical quibble nor sectarian schism. He was not playing politics. He was fond of feeling deep thrills over high visions and he liked to talk about his experiences. And all of this refinement went through the refiners fire that the world might be made safe from the despotism of the ecclesiastic 16th Century savages. He suffered a cruel death and achieved a unique martyrs fame. He has become the Churchs most difficult alibi. She can explain away the case of Galileo with suave condescension. But Bruno sticks in her throat.
*
By the year 1582, Bruno had issued very science-centered thoughts, considered heretical by the clerical authorities of southern Europe. He had written of an infinite universe that had no room for a yet greater entity called God. That blasphemed against schema outlined by Aristotle and tenets in Genesis taught by the Church and universally believed by low and high everywhere. Brunos philosophy negated the mysteries of Virgin Mary, Crucifixion and Mass. He seemed to have been so absorbed in truths he hurriedly exposed that he did think of them as heresies. He considered the Bible as a book which only the ignorant could take literally and the Churchs methods were, to say the least, unfortunate.
*
For six years from 1593, he lay in a Papal prison. Was he forgotten, tortured ? The Papal authorities have till date not summoned enough the courage to overcome their shame and publish the historical records. Bruno was interrogated several times by the Holy Office and convicted by its chief theologians. He was given forty days to consider his position and, by and by, he promised to recant but did not desist from his follies. He got another forty days for deliberation but did nothing but baffle the Pope and the Inquisition. At last, in the custody of the Inquisitor, on 9th February, Bruno was taken to the palace of the Grand Inquisitor to hear his sentence, on his knees.
Bruno answered the sentence, of death by fire, with damnation : Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence against me with greater fear than I receive it with. He was given eight more clays to see whether he would repent. But that was futile.
Bruno was led to the stake on the 17th of February, 1600. He was offered a crucifix, which he pushed away with scorn.
*
Galileo never met Bruno in person and makes no mention of him in his works, though he must have read some of them. He may not be blamed for being diplomatic enough to withhold mention of a recognised heretic. Sixteen years after Bruno met his fate, Galileo faced the Inquisition in the same hall that had sentenced the predecessor !
Bruno is the numero uno among all martyrs who were persecuted for their beliefs. He was not a religious sectarian, caught up in the psychology of a hysterical mob. He was a sensitive, imaginative poet, fired with the enthusiasm of a larger vision of a larger universe and he fell into the error of heretical belief. He was kept in a dark dungeon for years, for his quest of an order that admits intellectual integrity. And, at the end, he was taken out to a blazing market place and roasted alive.
It is an incredible story. The Church will never outlive him. Amen.
http://infidels.org/library/historical/john_kessler/giordano_bruno.html
bvf
(6,604 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)We managed to post about Hypatia, Galileo and Giordano Bruno all in one day in here.
Our group rocks.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I really enjoy the discussions in here! It's one the few reasons I come to DU for these days.
Julie
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Thanks for adding it to the mix!
Julie
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)and to think that today, in the 21st Century, we still have to have this conversation....with the ignorant.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How is it possible to be both a feminist and a christian apologetic?
Some serious cognitive dissonance there.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)That needs a whole new form of cognitive dissonance all of its own.
And yet...you see them around here (well, not exactly here but... close by).
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Okay so they HAVE to tolerate me here but I'll take whatever I can get.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)and feed you a shrimp every now and then.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)But you're hanging out with wrong sort of people. Beware. They notice such things.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)are the only ones worth hanging out with.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)One of the first things that made me turn my back on all religion (but I didn't say that there was not god at this point) was reading the Bible and realizing how women were second class citizens while men were the masters. Fuck that. They didn't even mention if a woman was "begatted", just lists of men. Step one for me to become an atheist.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Her family was devoutly Catholic so she had to keep going to church until she was 18.
progressoid
(49,952 posts)They said the causation likely went both ways meaning, religion probably snuffs out innovation as science weakens religion.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)In fact I was pretty much an idiot for even posting it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You were an idiot before you posted that.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)And according to the New Rules if a person has you on ignore you MAY NOT respond to their posts.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I did not know that, can you respond to their OP's?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I'm sorry, I forgot that everyone doesn't have a playbook and a decoder ring. These new rules are not the admins, they are Proclamations from Very Serious People.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)*Properly Deferential Atheist
I had to buy a heavy duty steel reinforced bookcase just for them.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)this little device I designed:
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I miss DU 2, it told you how many people have you on ignore. I was going for the high score.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)It is always good to have a surrogate when the going gets rough.