This message was self-deleted by its author

[Heddi]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Heddi) on Thu Oct 9, 2014, 07:44 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. Ben Affleck made an ass of himself.

I would have liked to hear about Sam Harris' book but I got to hear nothing about it, because of Affleck's constant interruptions.
I had no idea to begin with what Affleck's opinions were about Islam.

Every time my husband watches and they start yelling over each other, he gets up and fixes himself another drink. This sounds like a good thing to do, but does not solve the problem of Maher not controlling his guests properly.

[LostOne4Ever]

2. It was annoying

Affleck was ignoring what Maher was saying and completely misrepresenting everything they said.

[amuse bouche]

3. I like Ben. He is usually informed

However, he came off like he was babbling from a movie script, with no thought involved

Bill and Sam were right on as usual.

[Lordquinton]

4. I don't want to see it

It's good that someone stood up to the constant barrage of anti muslim for the sake of hating a group of people, but it reinforced the notion that anyone who criticizes Islam is islamiphobic.

Will we ever see a day where someone stands up for atheists in that manner and gets praise heaped on them?

[m-lekktor]

5. I had a facebook friend say that if any of us sided with Bill Maher on that discussion than please

unfriend him NOW because we are all RACIST!

[mr blur]

6. Islam, of course, is not a race.

What we actually are is nasty god-hating bigots.

[Pike Bishop]

7. Ben Affleck didn't make an ass out of himself.

Affleck didn't "make an ass out of himself;" he just didn't articulate his very accurate and important points well. Both Harris and Maher were trying to particularly isolate Islam--as opposed to Christianity and Judaism--as a dangerous religion/discourse that needs to be criticized/addressed/feared beyond its fundamentalist branches and members.

Harris' loathsome "Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas" claim was particularly hostile and dangerous. If we are to believe Harris and Maher--and Maher has said many ugly things about Islam and Arabs--then all Muslims (including American ones) should be viewed with suspicion since they subscribe to this "motherlode." We could also never fully reconcile ourselves to co-existing with the one Billion Muslims in the world, and we have seen where that view has led us. As Affleck cogently asked, and neither Harris or Maher answered, what do they suggest we "do" with such an attitude? Are we to perennially look at all Muslims (domestic and foreign) as dangerous and conceptually unsound as long as they adhere to their "Mother Lode"? Affleck correctly would prefer a different, more humane and rational approach.

Also, Harris, himself, has a history of denigrating Islam more than the equally-fundamentalist prone Christianity and Judaism. He has extended that into his "analyses" of the Israel-Palestine conflict, where he has continually and ironically defended Israel's brutal bombings/possible war crimes against the Palestinian civillians:

"Needless to say, in defending its territory as a Jewish state, the Israeli government and Israelis themselves have had to do terrible things. They have, as they are now, fought wars against the Palestinians that have caused massive losses of innocent life. More civilians have been killed in Gaza in the last few weeks than militants. That’s not a surprise because Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. Occupying it, fighting wars in it, is guaranteed to get woman and children and other noncombatants killed. And there’s probably little question over the course of fighting multiple wars that the Israelis have done things that amount to war crimes. They have been brutalized by this process—that is, made brutal by it. But that is largely the due to the character of their enemies."

So, according to Harris, the bombings of Palestinian civilians was all the fault of the "character" of the Palestinians. Their inherent "character" flaws apparently invited such violence and death. So, Harris can try to unpack his "motherlode" comment all he wants. Couple it with racist militaristic comments about Muslim Arabs like the one above, and Affleck was absolutely right to call out Harris on his dangerous views.

[Heddi]

8. No, he was an ass

He yelled over and interrupted everyone who attempted to explain, debate, or expound upon a point. None of the points you bring up were allowed to be made by Harris or Maher because Affleck was acting like a spoiled child and screaming over and using the 'religion is like being gay, so you're a homophobe too??" argument, which holds about as much water as my spaghetti strainer.

There is no difference between criticizing dangerous and bigoted beliefs held by and proclaimed as being appropriate by self-styled leaders of Islam, and criticizing dangerous and bigoted beliefs held by and proclaimed as being appropriate by self-styled (and annointed-by-god) leaders of Christianity. I will criticize misogyny in Islamic countries as quickly as I will criticize misogyny in the Catholic Church, or the Mormon Church. And a hearty "fuck you" to anyone who cannot discern actual bigotry (which Maher and Harris were not promoting) with criticism of bad ideas (which Maher and Harris were dealing with)

[Pike Bishop]

9. No, he wasn't an ass, Sam Harris and Maher were.

And a hearty "fuck you" to those who can't see that blanket criticism of Islam as a "motherlode of bad ideas" is the same as legitimate criticism of the Religion...

You're saying he didn't allow Maher and Harris to make points you presume they were going to make? Were you reading their mind? They were not going to make the points I brought up. And Affleck didn't say "religion is like being gay, so you're a homophobe, too." Now, you have to make up quotes to back up your flawed position?

You also clearly didn't read my last post. And you clearly didn't notice that Maher and Harris were particularly attacking Islam over Christianity and Judaism. They weren' just attacking its bad parts, as you advocate. They see a difference in the two criticisms that you don't claim to see. They also are advocating a general condemnation of a religion practiced by thousands of our citizens and a billion of the world's. That's what calling something the "motherlode" of bad ideas is doing. As I noted above with Harris' horrid comment about the Palestinians "character" earning them being bombed, Harris (like Maher) particularly "criticizes" Islam with ugly blanket statements he doesn't make about Judaism and Christianity.

And thank you for pointing out that misogyny exists in Christianity (and Judaism) as well as in Islam. As Affleck and Kristoff pointed out, we should criticize and fight against the fundamentalism and social ills of all religions, not just attack and isolate one as the central problem of the religious world.

[Heddi]

10. Islam *IS* a motherlode of bad ideas. SO is Christianity. So are nearly most major religions

If you can't see the inherent problem that religionS universally have with women, minorities, homosexuals, freedom, etc, then I have to ask if you realize you're in the Atheist/Agnostic group, where we're not too fond of people, yanno, who want us to ignore the NUMEROUS bad things in religion and focus on the very tiny minority of good things (that in no way undo the bad) that some religions do/promote.

Based on your posts, it's apparent that you're not familiar with Bill Maher, who has long been a critic of ALL religions. He's an atheist. The bad things he says about islam---he's said about Christianity. He's said about Scientology. He's said about LDS. He's not singling out Islam. He's including it in his ever-growing list of religions that treat other people awfully.

And I do know what he was going to say on the subject, because he said a mouthful about it the previous week on Real Time. I've watched Bill Maher since Politically Incorrect. I'm well aware of his views of Religion. You apparently arent.

Perhaps you'll find a more, um, sympathetic (?) audience in the Religion forum. They'll be happy to wax poetic about how wonderful Islam is (especially to gays and women). You'll not find a lot of support for hateful bigotry here.

[Heddi]

14. In 3 different threads about this, you complain people aren't reading what you write

At this point, has it possibly occurred to you, that you aren't expressing yourself as clearly as you think you are/hope you are/want to be if EVERYONE who reads what you are writing is CONSTANTLY GETTING IT WRONG?

Is there any possibility that *you* are being unclear? I mean, I'm working on my 4th college degree right now. I'm in the middle of writing a 45-page paper. I'm taking 4000-level English classes (amongst others). I think I'm pretty fucking able to read and comprehend what I've read. As are the other posters in other threads about this same subject (hint: everyone you've accuse of not reading what you've written, and not comprehending what you've written all have multiple college degrees, as well, and I believe one is even an educator himself).

I'm just telling you that you're all over the place. You have no clue about Bill Maher if your complaint is that he doesn't attack Christianity. No clue. He fucking hates religion.

And i like how you call me a hateful bigot. Okay. Sure thing. I'm sorry your alert on my post last night didn't work out and you're locked out of alerting for 24 hours. You'd think in the 48 hours you've been on DU, if you've figured out how to use bold, you'd know how the jury system works. Like calling someone a hateful bigot. Not really tolerated around here. But you probably knew that already.

[Heddi]

16. So, you realize you're in a Safe Haven, right?

that the hosts here really probably aren't going to take too well to a 2-day, 30-count poster who calls a 14-year, 20k poster a bigot. Repeatedly. For no reason.

I'm not a bigot because I disagree with you, you know. I'd ask you to point out any of my posts---not just in this thread, but ANYWHERE--- in my 14 year history on DU, that could be even remotely construed as bigoted, but I don't know if you know how to use the search function yet (is it even available to people with less than 100 posts? I really don't know). I'd ask you to do that but it would be a completely wasted effort on your point. Because I'm not a bigot.

Being an atheist, and believing that religions are a scourge upon society, isn't bigoted. Saying that I wish all muslims were dead, or that Christians should be jailed for their beliefs---that's bigotry, and those are things that I don't believe in or support. I point it out because you apparently don't know what it is, and what it isn't.

But you probably knew that already.

I'm just letting you know that your behavior in this group (a safe haven--check out the SOP to clear up any confusion you may have as to what can and can't be posted in here) as well as your general behavior on the discussion board (calling people who disagree with you "bigots," despite their lack of bigotry) isn't going to make your stay here very pleasant. You know that low-count posters get sent to the MIRT for further review when their posts are hidden, right? And MIRT can (and will) revoke the posting priveleges of posters they feel don't follow the rules of DU.

And after 5 posts that are hidden (or several in quick succession), your post will be flagged for review and you won't be able to post for 90 days.

I'm only pointing this out because you seem to be off to a rough start given the trend of calling other posters "bigots" simply because they disagree with you.

There are plenty of safe-havens for religious minded folks who will be more than happy to parrot your thoughts and agree with everything you write. This SAFE HAVEN FOR ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS is probably not going to get you the responses you wish.

[Heddi]

25. OH hi. You're back. That's against the rules, too

[Rainforestgoddess]

30. Oh hai!

[Curmudgeoness]

31. Since you are new here,

(I feel like this is deja vu) please know that this is a safe haven group, and it is not nice to come in here and shit on someone who has been here for a long time. And I believe that calling her "Hedd" is disrespectful. Did you mean to do that, or is it a typo?

[Goblinmonger]

29. As someone with an advanced English degree

you do realize that "protest" meant something different in Shakespeare's time.

And, as a host, please stop. This is a safe haven and if I have to contact the other hosts to block you and then block more sock puppets of yours and then contact MIRT/Admin, I'm really not going to be happy. If you don't understand what you are doing that is not allowed, please let me know, but for many different reasons--the least being that you came straight to this protected group and started rattling cages immediately--I'm sure you are well aware.

[mr blur]

32. Hello again!

You do realise that in 1602 "protest" didn't mean the same as it does now, don't you? - Of course you do, you with your PhD and all. Perhaps you should read it - they do a Cliff's Notes, I understand.

[Heddi]

18. Oh you poor dear. Got a post hidden for...whaddya know...personal attacks

You really should heed my advice in my previous thread to you. You're not off to a good start. I have a feeling your most recent post will be hidden, as well. I can only hope it will, as in your 32 posts you have not yet learned to disagree with others without making personal attacks.

You should re-read the rules for DU because I just don't think you understand what is and isn't allowed here. Calling people bigots at DU is frowned upon. Making personal attacks against other posters is frowned upon.

I wish you the best.

[mr blur]

22. Good hide. (nt)

[Heddi]

26. He's back

[yuiyoshida]

34. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Thu Oct 9, 2014, 07:24 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Someone is protesting too much.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=29322

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is the poster whose posts above were hidden - Pike Bishop. Same posting style, same use of intermittent bolding. Please hide this so this obvious Zombie (who is now back, again, in a SAFE HAVEN FOR ATHEISTS) calling another poster a bigot (Someone is protesting too much is the same wording that was used in his second hidden posts, where he called me a bigot and got THAT post hidden.). Jury, please look at the 2 hidden posts again by Pike Bishop, whose account is now flagged for review for having 2 posts hidden, and realize this is a zombie created to get aroudn the no-posting rule. Hiding this post will send this poster to MIRT, where he can be banned for creating a zombie to get around the no-posting rules while his account is in review.

Thanks, heddi (who isn't a bigot)

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 9, 2014, 07:37 PM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry but jurors are to evaluate the post that is alerted on, and not research the background of the poster. You may well be right and if so I am sure the poster won't last long. But I don't see a violation of CS in this post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Since you are new here,

maybe you didn't read the pinned OP's that explain how the A&A group works.

The hosts of the Atheists & Agnostics group have decided that while this is, strictly speaking, a "safe-haven" for non-believers of all stripes only, it should remain a welcoming and friendly environment for all those who participate.

Notice that this is a safe haven, and coming in here and trashing a regular poster and this thread is not necessary, or welcome. Please mind your manners here.

[Heddi]

20. Tsk. Now he's flagged for review because he had 2 posts hidden in short order

You'd think someone who wrote a 10,934,388,013.1834 page thesis would understand how important is to follow the rules of the message board you just signed up with....

[Curmudgeoness]

21. Sometimes

all you can do is point of the obvious and try to help a newbie. But sometimes, they know more than you do so they don't listen.

[Heddi]

23. Well, I mean, he is the President of Englishism

and he wrote a paper so long, the trees used to make the paper he'll print it on haven't even matured yet to be harvested for the paper. IT'S THAT FUCKING LONG.

[arcane1]

17. Indeed, he was an ass during the first panel too, talking over everyone and hogging it.

[RussBLib]

12. I have finally begun to explore the "Ignore" feature

Perhaps some of you saw the Cenk Uygur/Buddy Roemer posts in GD.

People have the right to say what they wish, and I have the right to Ignore them. Do many of you use this feature much?

There may be one in this thread too.

[RussBLib]

13. I wonder if Affleck has published a "post-mortem" after that appearance on Real Time like Harris did

I haven't seen one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123029238

[Heddi]

33. I'm going to self-delete this thread but only because some Knobgobblin has a hair up his ass

for me. I mean, I know I'm so stunningly beautiful, witty, charming (and those boobies...oh my) that I'm just IRRESISTIBLE...but it's really starting to be tiresome and I don't know how much longer my luck with going to juries for this assface shitstain is going to hold out.

At least both accounts are flagged for review. However, as we know with most basement dweller-types, their passing knowledge of personal hygiene, coupled with their inability to have a meaningful relationship with anything that doesn't have an air-valve, gives them ample time to just create zombies and sock puppets for, well, no reason at all.

So, out of my absolute love for the hosts here, I will prevent further headaches and lock this thread. Perhaps our nasty little friend will find some other interests, although I fear his style is more "pull the legs off spiders" than "volunteer at a hospital or soup kitchen."

The original thread, for those interested


anyone watching Sam Harris on real time?

I think ben affleck must post here because he uses the same, tired, you are an islamaphobe if you criticize Islam arguments we see so regularly here. I wonder what his screen name is?