There has been a lot of talk about labels here and in the other room lately and yeah they do suck

[LostOne4Ever]

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:42 AM - Edit history (2)

They divide people and oversimplify things.

But you know what sucks more? Having people, who oppose your very existence, labeling you instead and having it stick. The reality that those who oppose labels refuse to accept is that you either define yourself, or you allow others to define you.

Words have power. If you allow others to label you, then they get to define who you are and have power over you. Power to tell the world what you believe and what you don't believe. Power to call you moral or immoral, power to deem you worthy or to turn you into a monster. Power to strengthen you or strip you of your very humanity...and then, in the most extreme of circumstances, your life.

By defining yourself you are taking power over how you are perceived by others. You are telling the world what it is that makes you unique, and to do so on your own terms. You are telling the world what makes you...YOU!!!

Getting rid of labels sounds good on paper, but what it really does is empower intolerance and ends individuality. It is a demand that we all be alike, that we all be the same. It is conformist thinking that rejects anything different, anything unique, anything valuable that the majority does not have or want.

To the anti-label crowd, you are not an African American, you are just an American. You are not gay, you are just another person. If your experience does not meld with the majority experience, they are going to want to pretend your issues do not exist. To deny you. To deny the adversities you face. To say, "Why do you have a problem with that? Why do you insist on dividing us?" To push you back into the closet and pretend you don't exist! This is why you see the right wing demanding we stop seeing the world in colors and demand we all be colorblind, because they are the majority. Because they know they will win that way.

Its the ultimate whitewashing under the banner of conformity! One that tries to disguise itself as benevolent egalitarian collectivism when it fact it is a tool of fascist hierarchical collectivism that sacrifices individuality at the alter of tyranny of the majority.

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"][center]"Why do you have to bring up your sexuality/atheism? Why can't we all just be the same." [/center]

[font face=papyrus size=3][center] Why? [/center]

[center] Because we are NOT all the same! Because those things are parts of me! [/center][/font]

[div style='color:#B20000 !important; font-size:2em !important; text-align:center !important;'] BECAUSE I HAVE VALUE AND WILL NOT BE PUSHED INTO ANY CLOSET I DON'T WANT TO BE IN!!!

[div style='color:#B20000 !important; font-size:5em !important; text-align:center !important;'] YOU DON'T GET TO DEFINE ME!!!

[font face=papyrus size=3][center]I will not be ashamed of being an atheist or any of my labels! [/center]

[font color=teal][center] I will not be silent and fade into the background because my label makes you uncomfortable. I am not going to let you tell me what I do or do not believe! To further STIGMATIZE the label I identify with. I am not going to let you associate me and my label with things they have nothing to do with![/center][/font][/font]

[div style='color:#B20000 !important; font-size:5em !important; text-align:center !important;']I am proud of who I am and I WILL NOT LET YOU OR ANYONE ELSE DEFINE ME!!!


[center] [/center]

In conclusion, I would like to say, if you don't like my labels then don't use them. I don't care how you label yourself, and I believe it is your RIGHT to label yourself as you wish. However, if you do make up your own label, do it on your own terms. Don't use my label to define your label; because, when you do that, whether you intend to or not, you are applying your own biases to the label and redefining me in the process.


[font face=papyrus size=3][center]AND I WILL NOT LET YOU DO THAT! I WON'T BE QUIET! I WILL PUSH BACK![/center][/font]

[center][font color=#B20000 size=5em face=Impact]I am Proud to be who I am. [/font] [font color=#B20000 size=6em face=Impact] A Liberal. An Agnostic.[/center]
[center][/font] [font color=#B20000 size=7em face=Impact] And an ATHEIST! [/font][/center]

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. Excellent post!

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Eleanor Roosevelt

My favorite T-SHIRT: QUIT WORK, PLAY MUSIC

[LostOne4Ever]

15. Thank You

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:41 AM - Edit history (3)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3]And that is a great quote!

One T-Shirt saying I saw that I thought was particularly memorable said:[/font]

Too Fucked up for Prozac!

[beam me up scottie]

2. Bra-fucking-vo!

The label 'liberal' is used like a club in my world. Like it's dirty, and something to be ashamed of.

The only reason those racist lying motherfuckers can accuse the POTUS of everything from purposely bringing ebola to this country to being a terrorist in league with ISIS is because liberals fought for their right to free speech.

And still fight for it, no matter how despicably they use it.

However, if you do make up your own label, do it on your own terms. Don't use my label to define your label; because, when you do that, whether you intend to or not, you are applying your own biases to the label and redefining me in the process.

Exactly.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. Its the same here in West Texas

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:34 AM - Edit history (2)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3]Seems like everyone out here is super conservative, super religious and super patriotic.

The hypocrisy is almost enough to suffocate on. Trucks with stickers about patriotism and supporting the troops while flying a confederate flag in the rear window. They are Patriots who love the US dearly, yet want to succeed from the Union and create a proper god fearing country free from all the "godless" liberals.

Nonstop talk about our the founders and how great and religious they were. Of course, the founders they love the most were almost all irreligious Deists and considered themselves liberals. They want religious freedom...so long as you are fundamentalist Christian.

The people out here pride themselves on how humble, nice and friendly they are...yet once they realize that you are not one of them all that goes away. They are friendly till they find out you are a liberal, poor, not straight, or an atheist. They are so very humble that they consider themselves REAL Americans and everyone on the coasts (where the USA started) to be out of touch elitists...and they don't see the hypocrisy in that.

That said, there are people out here who are as nice as they claim, its just really hard to tell them apart from the hypocrites.


I have a real love/hate relationship with my area of the country if you can't tell =P

[Warpy]

3. I've certainly been known to bite their heads off from time to time

when they pull out those "dogmatic" or "fundamentalist" atheist slurs because they'd get posts hidden if they came right out and called us godless assholes.

I really am sick of it. I can get along fine with them. They simply can't cope with me or any other atheist.

[LostOne4Ever]

13. I think we are all sick of it

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:35 AM - Edit history (2)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3] And this is my saying I won't lie down and take it.

Especially not here in our safehaven!

[NeoGreen]

4. Real (nt)

[mr blur]

5. Well, I'll probably get into trouble for doing this but,

[LostOne4Ever]

11. I would like to thank the academy for this honor

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 04:03 AM - Edit history (4)

[font color=teal size=3 face='comic sans MS'] And my parents, and all the fine people working with me in the A&A group. And....I feel like I am forgetting someone. Someone important, someone all powerful who watches over all of us....

OH I KNOW!

I want to thank [font color=fushia]Joe Pesci![/font]

[Warren Stupidity]

19. You have no right, no right at all, to awards the internet.

Just stop it.

[wavesofeuphoria]

6. Excellent!!

I really like your statements here: "I will not be silent and fade into the background because my label makes you uncomfortable." and "I am not going to let you associate me and my label with things they have nothing to do with!"

Strong affirming statements!!!

I love it!!

[LostOne4Ever]

16. Thank you

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:37 AM - Edit history (2)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3] I think it is important to affirm what we are, and not to let people take away the words we use to describe ourselves.

[skepticscott]

7. Nevertheless, words (including labels) mean things

And I won't buy into the tactics of the apologists and obscurationists in Religion and elsewhere who try to argue that "Words don't mean things, except when I need them to, and then they do."

Yes, labels can be problematic and even misused. That's why we have discussions and debates over their application. To hash out what IS meant by a label, and to decide whether and to what extent a particular thing qualifies under that label.

[AlbertCat]

8. words (including labels) mean things

Yes indeedie-do.

Of course, who thinks when someones says "I'm an atheist" or "I'm a Catholic" that it means that's ALL there is to you?

I'd say that atheism never comes 1st.... unlike our Heavenly Father for some people.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Exactly!

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:38 AM - Edit history (2)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3] That was the point of this thread! To let the people who are constantly trying to redefine the word atheist and tell us what we do or do not believe that they are wrong and that I won't let them do that without pushing back.

To reaffirm our worth and let them know that they can't shame us with their strawmans.

[Curmudgeoness]

9. I love your rant. It makes perfect sense to me.

It baffles me that this is so hard for some people to understand. I am quite sure that the debates that we see regarding atheism would not occur in this day and age if it was a discussion on race or sexuality. At least not on a progressive discussion board.

[LostOne4Ever]

14. Thank you!

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:39 AM - Edit history (3)

[font color=teal face=papyrus size=3] What really bothers me is that some of their arguments are straight out of the conservapedia.

Can you imagine any other group here on DU being told that their opinions about what they believe (or in this case not believe) and how they define themselves are invalid or of lower status than the opinions of the majority? That they are wrong simply because they are a minority?

I get that some of them don't like the stigma that comes with our label. But giving in to that only contributes to making the stigma worse. And when they try to create a new label solely for the purpose of setting themselves apart from us they redefine us and shame us.

That is bad enough when they do it in the other room, but it is a whole other thing when one of them comes into our safehaven and does it.

[font face=papyrus size=3 color=fushia]I won't be shamed. I won't be told what I think.[/font]

[Curmudgeoness]

17. No, I cannot imagine it.

And if that did happen, I am sure that the poster would be eating pizza in short order. It seems that smokers and atheist is about the only people who there is still open season on.

I have said it several times----the more people who will proudly admit that they are atheists, the less stigma we will have. As people realize that they know and like many people who are atheists, they will come to accept it. But for now, we just have to fight for a little respect.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

18. The word "God" is a useless concept.

Language cannot describe spirituality.
Atheists have their own spirituality if they wish. Einstein said his god was the god of Spinoza. He wanted to know god (if there is one) by studying the laws of nature. I can groove on that.

Anyone can say "My cat is sacred to me. My life is sacred to me." You don't have to go by someone else's rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. It has been very useful for thousands of years

Useful for obtaining obedience through fear.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. Good point, Warren.

Obedience through fear.

You have been around DU and A&A long enough to have read some of my philosophical rants against the Abrahamic religions in general and Christianity in particular. This is why I read Hinduism and Buddhism. They are practical and have a totally different slant on reality and how you should live your life. I think of the gods and goddesses as archetypes of various kinds of personalities.

I have new translations of all of the Buddhist original scriptures. They are four books called the Nikayas. They are DEEP stuff.


About the only Abrahamic religion I would consider joining, because it's quite sensible and practical, is Reform Judaism.

[skepticscott]

23. You could make a better case

That the word "spirituality" is a useless concept. In fact you're halfway to arguing that already. There is far more commonality of understanding amongst people hearing and using the word "God".

But in either case, the fact that words can be imprecise and ambiguous in expressing meanings and concepts does not mean that they are "useless". As with all things, one merely has to understand the limitations on their use.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. I think spirituality covers a lot more ground than the word God does.

People have an image of God that fits into a neat little box and others are not allowed to deviate from their angry old guy with a beard.

I can't deal with people with those kind of boxes. For one thing, it is quite arrogant that they think their definition of "God" is the only one allowed and the only correct one.

I think I'll go with "synchronicity" and see where that leads.

[Act_of_Reparation]

22. You.

Fucking. Win.