If our Founding Fathers were all Christians, why did they say this?

[Panich52]

DailyKos

by Tolerant Libertarian


Nobody can deny the fact that Christianity has played a huge role in our history. From the first Thanksgiving to the ideas of Jesus Christ that are embroidered in our culture today, Christianity and the Bible is responsible for a big part of our heritage.

However, many conservatives will take this fact way out of context. They'll think that you have to be a Christian to be patriotic, which is simply not true. Following the more secular teachings of Jesus Christ (being charitable, loving one another, treating strangers with kindness) is what the men who founded this country were for.

I don't want to waste my time listing all these obscurant far-right arguments, so instead I'll list the facts straight from our forefathers.

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia (1789)

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr (1787)

"In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

- Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man (1791)

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”

- Roger Sherman, Congress (1789)

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people build a wall of separation between Church & State."

- Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptists (1802)

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis No. V (1776)

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”

- Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)


"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)


"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."

- George Washington, address to Congress (1790)


"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/18/1285607/-If-Our-Founding-Fathers-Were-All-Christians-Why-Did-They-Say-This?detail=email

[JDDavis]

1. Not really amazing that Christians particularly, (probably Jewish and Muslims, too)...

like to re-write history to favor the wonderful moments which show their own particular religious folks are the most valiant, the favored ones, the ones most praiseworthy and predetermined to be at the very top of the power structure.

Rewriting of history is just one of the many tools they use.

How many times have we read or heard this lie since 2001? How many American people have come to believe it?

"America was founded as a Christian nation"

[onager]

2. Which is why we can have so much fun correcting their history...

OK, we've been hammering the Xians and Muslims pretty good in here lately. So why not aim a little historical embarrassment at the third member of the triad...

What is the only Jewish military cemetery in the United States?

The Hebrew Confederate Cemetery in Richmond, Virginia. Where 30 Jewish men lie who died fighting for the Confederacy in the Civil War.

According to my extensive historical research...30 seconds on Google...there are only 2 Jewish military cemeteries in the whole world located outside of Israel. The other one - rather ironically - is a cemetery for Jewish veterans of World War I in Berlin, Germany.

The Richmond Jewish Confederates got their own cemetery because the Confederate govt. so honored their service, and respected its fallen Jewish veterans so much, that it donated...

WHA-HA-HA! Did you actually believe that crap? They had to be buried in their own cemetery because the two official Confederate cemeteries refused to have any Jews buried in them.

In 1866, The Hebrew Ladies Memorial Association was formed to take care these graves. They raised money to pay for individual gave markers for the soldiers, they sponsored memorial services and they commissioned an elaborate ornamental iron fence to surround the hallowed grave area. In the 1930s, they gave the care of this area to the Hebrew Cemetery Company.

http://www.fau.edu/library/confederate_cemetery.htm

There's also Coming Street Cemetery in Charleston, SC, a private Jewish burial ground founded in 1762. It contains the graves of 21 Civil War soldiers, including 8 Confederates.

That cemetery is interesting (to me anyway) because it is owned by Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim, itself founded in 1749. Jews played in a big part in the history of South Carolina, especially Charleston, and we don't often hear that much about it. Until circa 1820, Charleston had the biggest Jewish community in the U.S.

[JDDavis]

3. Thanks for this, something I knew nothing about.

I must admit, I don't know much about the history of Jewish folks in the USA.

When did the first group come here? From where did they come in those early days?

Evidently, there was a promise of some freedoms for some to come from Europe in the 1700's, even to an area like South Carolina, center of the slave trade in the Southern colonies. I can only imagine that South Carolinians didn't invite them here for their expertise in bagels and lox or geffilterfisch. But I could be wrong.

So much of the history of various religious groups coming to America, or moving anywhere around the world large distances for whatever reason, all of that, I do not know.

[onager]

5. Here's a good start.

The Cesspit Of Lies!1!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Charleston,_South_Carolina

Fascinating facts:

--One reason Jews were welcome in South Carolina - because its Royal Charter was written by John Locke. His Charter specifically said the new colony would welcome "Jews, heathens and dissdents."

So much for that "Christian Nation" hogwash, again.

--South Carolina was the first U.S. state to elect a Jew to public office. That happened before the American Revolution.

--Charleston attracted many Jewish settlers from Georgia, when Spain invaded that state. The Jews feared another Inquistion, and I don't blame them.

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Thanks for this.

I am always looking for proof that this is NOT founded as a Christian nation, just to slam the people who keep insisting it. This is a great list.

It makes me think that is we were founded as a Christian nation, there would be civil wars about which "Christian" is the right one.

[AlbertCat]

6. Christian governments in 1789

You don't even need to quote the FFs really.

In 1789 a "Christian Nation" was one with a KING..... a king who's family was chosen by god to rule.


The USA was designed to be the antithesis of that set up. It was to be a country who didn't have rulers selected by some god, but elected, secularly, by the citizens of the country.

What happened when we gained our independence was:

We USED to be colonies of a Christian Nation with a King.... but we rejected that so as to be a secular nation with leaders elected by citizens.

At its very core, the USA was a reaction against Christian nations.... the antithesis of a Christian nation.


Religious rewriters of history seem to think there were plenty of democratic counties around when the FFs invented America. As usual, they don't seem to grasp that things were NOT just like their back yard and kitchen table are today, but very very different. (Religious zealots are so small minded)

[guillaumeb]

7. Thank you

The Founders were very well educated. Even if these quotes were put into US history books, which will never happen given that Texas sets the standards, most people would feel that the quotes were taken out of context. When you try to fight US "mythstory" with fact the myth will always win.
No different than the argument over a 2nd Amendment that actually says nothing about an individual's right to own a gun. The gun manufacturers and their shills have successfully convinced Congress that "the people" is equivalent to "every individual. Once again "mythstory" wins out over documented history.
Great quotes by the way.
PS. Have you ever read the Jefferson Bible?