Say theology is stupid, get called a bigot.

[Odin2005]

[onager]

1. But that's only Bad Theology! Good Theology is A-OK!

I was thinking of posting the following, until I saw what happened to you in that thread:

"The difference between Good Theology and Bad Theology is sort of like the difference between gonorrhea and syphilis. One's not nearly as bad as the other, but I'd rather not be infected by either one."

[darkstar3]

2. nicely done.

[Ron Obvious]

3. Theology

I'm always amazed to hear theology defended by people who tell me theologians spend years studying the material and that there are doctorate degrees offered in it.

Frankly, so what? You can say the same for astrology. Neither field of study has added any knowledge to our understanding that could be independently verified. Doesn't matter how many years you study it.

So yes, stupid, or as I would prefer to call it 'silly'.

[dimbear]

4. Some of our best and most accurate ancient dates come from astrologers.

They, at least some of them, kept amazingly accurate records for many centuries.

Theologians are another kettle of fish. Theology means "knowledge of the gods." ( It's right there in the Greek.) If there aren't any gods, it works out to knowledge of nothing.

Of course, if you wanted to make an academic discipline out of nothing, you would probably want to dress it up with a lot of fancy verbiage you wouldn't hear anywhere else. I wonder if anything like that happened.

[Ron Obvious]

7. Fair enough

Fair enough. We can thank the early astrologers in various societies for their record keeping, like we can probably thank the alchemists for something or other that's not readily apparent to me right now.

Astrology became astronomy, alchemy became chemistry, philosophy became science, and theology is still a bloody waste of time.

Dressing up nothing with fancy verbiage, now? I couldn't imagine something like that happening. Certainly not today

[laconicsax]

10. Chemistry...but only sort of

Modern chemistry is basically applied quantum mechanics.

[onager]

12. My usual weird and irrelevant trivia...

Some of our best and most accurate ancient dates come from astrologers.

They indirectly provided a great help to real knowledge, too.

From that unimpeachable source, "I read it somewhere..."

The ancient Babylonians were very big on astrology. According to one story, the Babylonian kings met with their astrologers at least once a day. (And according to another story - if the king didn't like that days' predictions, he summoned his guards and had the Court Astrologer heaved over the city walls to a very messy death.)

When Alexander The Great finally conquered Babylon, he collected over a thousand years of meticulously maintained astrological records.

Those records were sent back home, where they were studied by Greek astronomers and put to good use in advancing that science.

In Charles Freeman's book The Closing of the Western Mind: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of Reason, he notes that those Greek astronomers made their last recorded celestial observations in the Fifth Century.

The observatories then went dark until about the Fifteenth Century.

Something happened in that thousand years to shut down scientific research, but it's hard to pin down exactly what. The astronomers probably just needed a good long vacation.

[dimbear]

13. Probably nothing to do with the general burning of scientific texts under Theodosius.

I can't imagine that slowing things down.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. What happened to the observatories? Let's ask Hypatia... oh, wait. nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

5. In all fairness a decent theologian has to be at least ostensibly well-educated

Knowledge of primary sources and the languages in which they were written takes quite a bit of work. Not many can boast fluency in ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or Aramaic. Also, a decent historical knowledge of the period in which religious texts were written is also a plus.

It shouldn't come as surprise, then, that our most competent counter-apologists tend to be former pastors/theologians themselves.

That aside, I will agree Odin was unduly bashed in that forum. The greater issue, I think, is a pervasive contingent within the liberal movement which has absolutely no regard for truth. They have a strong conception of how they feel the world should work, and they build their worldview around that conception, furiously attacking anyone who dares disturb their house of cards.

The post-modernists who claim science is a tool of the ruling class used to oppress women and minorities is a fine example of this specimen of liberal, as are those who truly believe the major religions can all settle down and be friendly with one another forever and ever.

[laconicsax]

6. While this may get hidden, this image speaks to that contingent.

From how some on DU talk, this is who they voted for in 2008:



I assume we all voted for Obama, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know any unicorns and can't shoot rainbows from his hands.

[Fumesucker]

14. Oh piffle, everyone knows the rainbow is supposed to be coming from the unicorn's butt..

[BiggJawn]

18. Don't forget his majik ability to get even ugly people laid!

And the pony he promised everybody somewhere...

So the people who didn't get a pony and have to go fap will vote for Ron Paul.

[Ron Obvious]

8. Theology

Oh, I agree about the education levels required to study theology, but I'd still claim that Theology itself has not added to our knowledge with anything that could be independently verified.

Don't get me started on post-modernists. Most of the philosophers I've met (and I shouldn't tar the entire field with them) seem to fall into that category: "Oh, but objectivity is subjective"

[intaglio]

11. Actually theologists education may have been extended

but that does not mean "well educated". Some will know Greek and Latin as some documents they are interested in will be in those languages and fewer will know Aramaic or Hebrew, but theology does not require such study; similar strictures apply to the historical knowledge they profess because they have no need of such knowledge. Theology is concerned only with the "nature of God" (or gods, there are other theologies than Abrahamic ones).

Other things they do not have to study are Philosophy, Ethics, Maths and Cosmology and those have far more bearing on the nature of deity than dead languages.

[saras]

9. Namecalling is stupid. It validates the other side's namecalling, and they're better at it.

If you fight with reason (easy, right? that's what you're fighting for?), they don't have much to fight back with, and the dispute becomes one over territory.

Because I'm going to continue my daily practice of believing six impossible things before breakfast.

[laconicsax]

15. Everyone knows that bigotry is intolerance of specific academic fields. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

17. Apparently the theologist does not know the definintion of bigot..nt

[BiggJawn]

19. Yeah, I got called a bigot the other day.

For questioning and then scoffing at the efficacy of prayer.

Person really got bent out of shape by my characterizing prayer as a "magic spell"...