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Silenced! (Original Post) cleanhippie May 2012 OP
Sorry, you were wrong and ellisonz was right intaglio May 2012 #1
It wasn't an attack on anything. It was an appeal to reason for public policy. cleanhippie May 2012 #2
I must say... rexcat May 2012 #4
"It was an appeal to reason" yortsed snacilbuper May 2012 #3
You made some good points Rob H. May 2012 #5
That was a damn good thread until it got locked. onager May 2012 #6
But, but, Christians ENDED SLAVERY!!1! PassingFair May 2012 #7
I grew up in Calhoun's back yard... onager May 2012 #9
Colour me surprised. mr blur May 2012 #8

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
1. Sorry, you were wrong and ellisonz was right
Thu May 10, 2012, 03:50 PM
May 2012

It was the wrong forum for what was a simple attack on faith. You want to do that you are fee to do so either in this forum or in the Religion forum. The initial hook that you used to justify posting in GD has barely any relevance to the rest of the post.

So you were not silenced just told to post in the correct forum - Oh, and this is the wrong forum for whining about a host's decision that should be done in H&M.

rexcat

(3,622 posts)
4. I must say...
Thu May 10, 2012, 06:42 PM
May 2012

Union Scribe is an A.. H... but there appears to be some real pricks in DU when it comes when religion is mentioned.

I was just accused of being divisive with black community in the thread listed below despite the fact that 2/3 of blacks in NC voted for amendment 1 Tuesday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=116584

The issue of same sex marriage boils down to religion. I think since religion is extremely relevent on this topic it should not be confined to the Religion forum.

Rob H.

(5,340 posts)
5. You made some good points
Thu May 10, 2012, 09:01 PM
May 2012

There was a referendum on the ballot here in Tennessee during the 2006 election to amend the state constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman, and voters approved the referendum by a whopping 81 percent in favor, 19 percent opposed. (I'm one of the 19 percent, fwiw.) I have an exceedlingly hard time believing that religion had nothing to do with its passage--we're a red state, but we're not that red, which leads me to believe that even otherwise liberal Democrats voted in favor of it, and the only reason I can think of why that would happen is because we're in the heart of the Babble Belt.

But of course we're told, no, religion had almost nothing to do with these referendums getting passed. And Obama decided to support gay marriage because of religion, so yay, churches! Oh, and apparently the people who voted for them weren't True Christians™, or we mere mortals simply can't comprehend other ways of voting.

And don't even get me started on the "Monkey Bill" that just got passed.

onager

(9,356 posts)
6. That was a damn good thread until it got locked.
Thu May 10, 2012, 09:44 PM
May 2012

Lots of participation from both sides. All the usual religious blather about how You-Know-What ended slavery, started the civil rights movement, and probably invented baseball and apple pie.

I was having fun reading it.

rexcat said: ...there appears to be some real pricks in DU when it comes when religion is mentioned.

That seems to be a serious understatement. On the level of - "Josef Stalin sometimes got cranky and behaved badly."

(Stalin reference just for the lurking spies...)

I also read the long thread in Religion about NC Amendment One. From my completely prejudiced POV, that thing has really hit a nerve with the believers. "Protest too much," I effing reckon!!!

All their self-congratulatory BS about the awesome power of Lib'rul Xianity just went right up in smoke...again. As it did in California in 2008, when the Mormons rammed their throbbing, engorged bigotry right down the throat of the most gay-friendly state in the nation.

I noticed CA Prop. 8 was mentioned in the thread. And predictably ignored. Just as they predictably ignore that the right-wing Xian bullies have been stealing their lunch and beating the crap out of them on the political playground since 1980.

Maybe a more Sophisticated Theology will fix that. Or some OTHER Other Ways Of Knowing.



PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
7. But, but, Christians ENDED SLAVERY!!1!
Fri May 11, 2012, 07:32 AM
May 2012

I actually GAG every time I see that "argument".

http://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp

snip> Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, ... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it.

Defenders of slavery turned to the courts, who had ruled, with the Dred Scott Decision, that all blacks — not just slaves — had no legal standing as persons in our courts — they were property, and the Constitution protected slave-holders' rights to their property.

Defenders of slavery argued that the institution was divine, and that it brought Christianity to the heathen from across the ocean. Slavery was, according to this argument, a good thing for the enslaved. John C. Calhoun said, "Never before has the black race of Central Africa, from the dawn of history to the present day, attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically, but morally and intellectually."

onager

(9,356 posts)
9. I grew up in Calhoun's back yard...
Sat May 12, 2012, 03:44 PM
May 2012

Well, about 20 miles away from his plantation, Fort Hill. Nowadays it's on the grounds of Clemson University.

When I was a kid my Mom worked at Clemson, and in summer sometimes I would go to work with her and wander around the campus. A nice old lady was the Docent at Fort Hill and put up with me. Sometimes she even let me run up the U.S. flag in the morning.

Though since we're talking about Calhoun, it's a wonder they didn't run up a different flag.

But there was this!

According to family letters, the Fort Hill slaves usually were given Sundays off to attend church services. Some might have attended services at St. Paul’s Episcopal Church in Pendleton where the Calhoun family worshipped. Their longest holiday occurred during the Christmas season when they were given additional provisions and a four-day holiday...

Inventories of the Fort Hill slaves show that they ranged in age from infants to the elderly. Only a few are known by name, although all the slaves at Fort Hill were assigned the Calhoun last name.


http://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/forthill-aa.html

My favorite Calhoun story: he was the only Vice-President in history to be threatened with hanging by his own President, Andrew Jackson. IIRC, one of Jackson's friends opined: "When Andy Jackson starts talking about a hanging, you better start looking for a rope."

This was when Calhoun was pushing "Nullification," the idea that a state could nullify any Federal law it didn't like. Right-wingers and neo-Confederates are still fond of that idea.

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