I'm "feeling the Bern" ... and don't like it. At all.

[EffieBlack]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Hassin Bin Sober (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

My previous post expressing my honest opinion on this topic was locked, so I'm posting an edited version that will hopefully pass muster ...

I have been pretty undecided in this primary. I like both Hillary and Bernie, as well as Martin O'Malley. I've been leaning toward Hillary but haven't made up my mind for sure and would be just fine with - in fact, proud to have - any of them becoming President. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but all three are good people, with strong qualifications, great experience, good hearts and solid platforms for moving this country in the right direction.

I'm a longtime DU member but stayed away because I know primaries are contentious and DU gets caught up in silly season until the general and I just wasn't interested in the drama. but I decided to venture back in recently, expecting to learn something from lively back and forths about the candidates

And I am apalled. So I am going to step back away from DU for awhile. I used to see DU as an place for stimulating, albeit sometimes frustrating, political dialogue. But I have no interest in participating in or even witnessing what is going on here now.

I'll check back in after the primaries, hoping that some sanity and civility has returned.

Bye y'all. Take care.

[closeupready]

1. I do not blame you. I also have to step away from here on occasion.

We have also seen many prolific posters step away in their own way, and I'm talking people on all parts of the spectrum.

I made a resolution in December that I was going to end my participation on social media, but, lol, I guess I just enjoy it too much. But I certainly don't participate here as I used to, in part because it is indeed sometimes like an elementary school playground.

Peace!

[Cal33]

2. It would be nice to have more people like you - not only here at DU, but everywhere. This

world of ours would be a much nicer place to live in.

[randome]

15. I think EffieBlack is actually the majority of those on DU.

It's the loud and obnoxious minority who try to 'win' every conversation and who apparently can't post enough OPs.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The OP is a meta attack on her rivals which fails to consider the same faults within her own cohort

That's fairly obnoxious. Here is the OP from 2008, sort of dismissing the anti gay aspects of Obama's campaign while telling us how racist Hillary and Bill are:
"For example, the inclusion of McClurkin in the Obama campaign event a few months back deeply upset a lot of people. I did not react that way, but I respect the fact that other people were genuinely unhappy about that and I empathize with their anger and hurt. But by the same token, some things have been done or said by Hillary and Bill Clinton and some of their surrogates that have been just as hurtful to some other people, especially regarding the issue of race. Many, many blacks - and white, for that matter - felt betrayed and stabbed in the back by the Clintons by what they felt were calculated attempts to "play the race card" in South Carolina. Whether you or I agree with that assessment is beside the point - the bottom line is that there are many, many Democrats who were just as deeply hurt by that as those who were hurt by the McClurkin situation."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4347596


So Clinton was so racist that Obama's anti gay stuff took second place but now Clinton is wonderful and it's Bernie who is somehow not acceptable? I might buy that if the 08 rhetoric had not been so intense about Hillary and about Bill.

[Betty Karlson]

26. Oooh, I had forgotten about that 'contribution' of hers.

That brings back some nasty memories.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. I'd actually love it if the OP was willing to stand up and explain how such a back stabbing racist

became her super favorite.
I have no problem with people changing their minds. I do have a large problem with people who insist on absolute and certain language on both sides of the same issue from year to year. So many who now support Hillary have called her a compulsive liar, too stupid to be VP, a back stabber, a racist, in 08 there was an OP equating her campaign to a lynch mob. Now those who crafted those attacks say the same things about Bernie while saying Hillary has a lifelong bond with all minority groups. Obviously it is hard to take such nonsensical behavior seriously.

[Hiraeth]

31. a-ha. thanks. I saw the OP from the other day. Meta meat for breakfast again.

[FSogol]

25. I agree. The majority here is reasonable and much quieter. n/t

[Cal33]

34. I do agree with you. Are you surprised? :)

[m-lekktor]

3. Not sure how this is any less a meta thread than the prior one that was locked for being meta.

you are STILL complaining about DU. You are upset because your candidate is being criticized during primary season here on the DU so you start two threads to complain about this. Apparently length of time on DU has nothing to do with knowing the rules. I have only been here since 2014 and I can see right off the bat you are doing the same thing that got your other one locked.

[LexVegas]

4. The way that minorities are treated by Sanders' supporters is troubling to me. Ugly, ugly attacks.nt

[msanthrope]

5. thankfully admin banned one of the most racist and vile trolls.

I seriously doubt he was an actual Bernie Sanders supporter... But his attacks on minorities on this forum were disgusting

[Bluenorthwest]

10. I was very thankful that they banned that "Hillary Supporter" KellieKat44 who attacked LGBT and then

Bernie endlessly and ended with a burst of extremely antisemitic material after the Paris shootings. PPR'd over a year after she'd said the 2014 election was lost because of the 'brazenness' with which LGBT 'flaunted their rights'.

Her attacks were also disgusting. I also doubt she was an actual Hillary Supporter, I know she is not representative of Clinton's views in any way. But she did that stuff for months and she got no criticism from the community, I got posts hidden for quoting her bigotry. Yeah, her cohort sided with her. Repeatedly.
Here are two quotes from a 'Hillary Supporter' currently on time out:
"Bernie is anti-immigrant. Let's stop pretending he isn't."- son of immigrant Holocaust survivors.
and
" The Bernie people posting here are not Democrats"



I just think it is naff to deny such people in your ranks while they are in your ranks, they might be false flag rat fuckers, but they are standing with you and your cohort would look better when criticizing Bernie supporters if your cohort did not have so many nasty posters being nurtured, praised and lauded openly by all of you.

There are 'Bernie Supporters' on this board I think are shits and not Bernie supporters. I tell them so. I feel good about that.

[msanthrope]

18. how interesting that you've chosen to respond in a

A sub thread discussing racism and people of color on this board in such a way.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Huh. Your post said 'attacks on minorities on this forum were disgusting' so as a minority I

responded to you. I pointed out that both sides have bigoted, vile people. You seem to be continuing with the accusations while refusing to look to your own routine. KellieKat and those other posters who say those shitty, bigoted things while claiming to be 'Hillary supporters' exist on this board, but you only see fault among Bernie supporters.
Got anything to say about those 'Hillary supporters' who say Bernie voters are not Democrats or that LGBT cost us elections by flaunting our rights?

If you say you are talking about how minorities are treated on DU but you don't mean LGBT you need to say that openly and directly. You are, I think, a straight white person. Perhaps you are not aware that LGBT are a minority group?

So next time you do this say 'minorities except LGBT' and I'll stay out of it for you, mmmmkay?

[Bluenorthwest]

35. So what do you have to say? You spoke of how minorities are treated on DU but you meant 'not LGBT'?

We are now a majority? That's big news.

KellieKat44. Maybe she is in fact the definitive Hillary supporter. She also excluded LGBT and Jews from the notion of minorities and immigrants.

You accuse me of a great wrong for considering LGBT to be a minority. Explain that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Agree completely

[hootinholler]

37. Who was that?

I don't recall, but I do have a faulty memory at times.

[Green Forest]

6. Who you talking about? I am a "minority" Obama Mama and proud Woman For Bernie. Stop smearing and...

... meta attacks are the sign of a desperate losing campaign.

[LexVegas]

7. Obama is a centrist corporate sellout according to your fellow supporters. nt

[Green Forest]

11. The vast majority of 2007-2008 Obama supporters who donated back then are donating to Bernie now. You do not speak for us.

SS Hillary has hit an iceBern and she is going down.

[riversedge]

24. I think you dream a lot in your bubble--Welcome to DU

[Doctor_J]

22. And so is Mrs. Clinton. I fail to see how this is indicative of

"how Sanders supporters treat minorities" by which I guess you mean african americans.

[cannabis_flower]

8. You are talking about..

A minority of Sanders supporters. There are also some very ugly Hillary supporters. I don't think either side is immune from having rude supporters and I also believe that not everyone is who they seem.

[Agschmid]

9. Yup.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. And this simple truth will be denied by those seeking to make divisions.

It's sad.

[bullwinkle428]

19. The excellent Ari Rabin-Havt (XM radio host) made the point the other day

that sadly, a small percentage of both Hillary's and Bernie's supporters need to wake the hell up and start doing a better job trying to actually emulate the people that they're supposedly supporting. ITA.

[stonecutter357]

16. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

17. I'm gay, we are a minority, Obama 2008 employed 'ex gay evangelists' and anti gay hate preachers to

pander to conservative Democrats in the South. He and Hillary both went to Rick Warren's church to praise Warren endlessly and to speak against marriage equality in the name of Rick Warren's version of God. DU's Obama ardent committee supported all of that and castigated LGBT for objecting to the use of preachers who had called us vampire and child killers. Yeah, vampires and child killers.

So why was that acceptable? What is Bernie doing that is anything like that? Nothing, Bernie has never once spoken against the rights of any minority group as Hillary has and as Obama has. Both of them own that, they did those things to get what they wanted, for all time that is part of who each of them is. Neither have ever apologized. Their supporters have never apologized. 'You people just want a pony'. That's what DU said to us for objecting to being called murderers 'it's just poutrage'.

Hypocrites and makers of double standards are the people who create bigotry out of thin air and allow it to take hold.

[Punkingal]

21. You express yourself very well.

I do not like hypocrites, either. They did not have to go to Rick Warren's church. They chose to.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. They did not have to. But they did and I dealt with that. I am bothered by those who had no problem

with that open castigation of a minority group going on about Bernie who has not done any of those things.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I just post what I want and try my best to stay within the rules.

I have long disabused myself of the notion that meaningful conversation is possible here. " I have become what I beheld and I am content that I have done right!"

[99Forever]

14. Vetting candidates isn't for the thin-skinned.

What you may see as a lack of civility, I see as a tough audition for an even tougher upcoming General Election. Like it or not, if a candidate is weak or has a real downfall problem, NOW is the time to get it out in the open. Sorry the REAL, NECESSARY political process offends and "appals" you so much.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. It was like this in 2008

[tazkcmo]

27. Don't worry

Butt hurt heals over time.

[MuseRider]

29. So sorry.

It is what it is but this year has been pretty bad already and it will get worse in the months to come.

If you want to come back in now please do. Many of us on all sides have used the ignore feature for the first time ever. If you want to talk to your particular "side" it makes that possible. While I have hidden quite a few I still have people from the other team posting many good arguments and items that are of interest and not just sniping. It makes DU a tiny bit more than just a screaming eyesore. While there are a few that will remain on my ignore list because of things I have read that make them just not the kind of people I want to ever hear from again most will come back when I "un ignore" when we can focus on other things. I just don't care for baseless and made up attacks and was tired of even reading them.

Really, I NEVER thought I would ever use ignore but at least now I can read and discuss with less aggravation. I do not know if you have a particular side yet and I don't care what side you are on, you should be able to post here if you want to. Try it or not, it is always sad to lose voices of others here.

[CrispyQ]

30. You have to pick your threads judiciously during primary season.

I don't like all the infighting either, & face it, both HRC & Bernie supporters do it. MOM supporters, not so much. When I see a thread that is just monkey's flinging poo, I leave.

[Mike Nelson]

32. I also need a break from all the Hillary hate...

...it's worse than FOX "News" here, sometimes!

And, yes, either Bernie or Hillary would be a fine President. Some of the Bernie supporters are going to be lost, I think, if he doesn't win. They will believe Hillary "won" (IF she wins) illegally and probably not vote for the Democrat. This is worse than eight years ago...

I trust Hillary and Bernie will lead the healing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. Buh bye.

[Trajan]

38. You will continue to be appalled ...

But I wouldn't know it, because I will never see you again ....

Before you go - What do I find appalling? ... America's working families getting screwed once more by phony corporate toadies pretending to be Democrats ...

Now THAT is appalling ... Have a good life ...

[MatthewStLouis]

40. What we have is a sort of "embarassment of riches": two great candidates.

I knew it was going to be painful when I saw Sanders was running. He is an awesome candidate. And I was "all in" for Hillary. I will be proud to vote for either democratic candidate, when the time comes. For me, it's not in my DNA to disparage someone who I know is on our side. Criticize? Maybe a little. But to take things out of context and start twisting words? No. The candidates and their politicos may sling a little mud, but me, well, I choose to remain cool and collected, or at least try to. Really, we should be thankful both our main candidates have such enthusiastic supporters.