Hillary Clinton’s Fatal Weakness Exposed Yet Again - Salon

[WillyT]

Hillary Clinton’s fatal weakness exposed yet again: Why Bernie Sanders’ surge is exposing her biggest political shortcoming
When the going get's tough, Clinton goes on the offensive — and that's where the problems really start
Daniel Denvir - Salon
Thursday, Jan 14, 2016 04:58 AM PST


Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton (Credit: AP/Seth Wenig)

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The problem for Clinton is that her attacks on Sanders, policy merits and demerits aside, are so brazenly opportunistic that they risk backfiring. While Sanders has been talking about income inequality consistently for decades, Clinton has been consistently hammering Sanders on gun control for months. If her shrinking lead in the polls is any guide, it hasn’t done her much good. In part, that’s because it’s hard for anyone to take seriously the idea that a President Sanders would be in the NRA’s pocket.

But most of all, I think, it’s because it is hard to believe that Hillary Clinton sincerely believes much of anything that she says. Which brings me to her other line of attack, which is no less cynical but comes across as a lot more strange: criticizing Sanders’ proposal for single-payer universal healthcare.

Chelsea Clinton recently warned that single-payer would “dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the CHIP program, dismantle Medicare and private insurance.” In the past, Hillary Clinton has said that Sanders’ plan would hike taxes on the middle class. Which primary voters, exactly, is Clinton—who in 2008 asked Obama “Since when do Democrats attack one another on universal health care?”—hoping to win over on this?

Ysterday, Matt Bruenig tweeted a thoughtful analysis: Clinton is trying to have it both ways, scaring people about higher taxes (without mentioning the savings single-payer would create), while at the same time spreading fear that single-payer, in replacing CHIP and the Affordable Care Act, would take away people’s health insurance (without mentioning that it would be replaced by new, simpler and better insurance).

The attacks—right, wrong, and otherwise—are a sign of desperation. And they may very well remind voters, once again, that Hillary Clinton will say anything to be elected president.

More: http://www.salon.com/2016/01/14/hillary_clintons_fatal_weakness_exposed_yet_again_why_bernie_sanders_surge_is_exposing_her_biggest_political_shortcoming/

[99th_Monkey]

1. Yep That's how Hillary rolls, and it's all down-hill for her from here. K&R!! n/t

[Betty Karlson]

35. downhill or down-Hill?

Now that would deserve its own hashtag.

Sanders accused of sexism? - #down-Hill
Sanders' supporters accused of racism? - #down-Hill
Sanders accused of having irrealistic health care reform plans? - # down-Hill
Sanders ignored by Hillary's BFF DWS? - #down-Hill?
Manufactured data=breach scandal + biased DNC overreaction? - #down-Hill

I cannot be bothered to complete the list - it makes me too sad.

[99th_Monkey]

36. Ha! I'm a twitter dummy .. so feel free. nt

[roguevalley]

48. Oh god. #down-hill. That is genius

[MattSh]

138. Can't use a dash (-) in a hashtag...

Underscores (_) are permitted though.

[Uncle Joe]

2. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[lewebley3]

24. Hillary doesn't have fatal weakness she strong: Tomorrow is

Last edited Fri Jan 15, 2016, 02:26 PM - Edit history (2)

always another fight: and she will always fight to get things
done for the American People.

Salon just campaigns for Sanders, they have been bashing from the
start

[passiveporcupine]

27. Stop drinking the Hillary koolaid

and spitting it out here. You are staining the furniture.

[cui bono]

44. Bots can't drink.

There is no way the posts that user name makes are original thought from a human being.

.

[virtualobserver]

54. I can't tell if it is Bizarro Superman, the Incredible Hulk or Tonto

[AnnetteJacobs]

60. A Dalek?

[tularetom]

156. I'm telling you it's Yoda

[arcane1]

28. Her fatal weakness is her lack of honesty n/t

[Safe as Milk]

88. Nebulous on its face?

Hillary has the reputation for being dishonest. It's all the rage on right wing media. Opinion polls have linked HRC to characterizations of dishonesty in many forms. I'm not terribly fond of HRC. I don't think she's the politician for the times. She may have been in 2008, but her time has passed. But I nonetheless do NOT see evidence that one of HRC's most vulnerable traits is dishonesty. I only have the meme; I don't have the evidence.

Yes, she's a politician. Yes, she dances with Wall St. AND with the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Those choices reflect her political philosophy. And as a politician, she calculates that exposing herself as a recipient of millions in speaking fees from corporations won't give her any bona fides for populism. So she doesn't wear logos on her pants suits.

How about placing the "lack of honesty" label on people who REALLY have an issue with honesty, like Trump and Cruz. Compared to them, HRC has celestial origins when it comes to honesty.

[arcane1]

89. This thread isn't about Trump or Cruz.

Welcome back! Sorry you're on timeout in your other form

[scottie55]

139. Milk Is Right

It's not like Hillary is a Republican and every single thing said is pure bs.

If a Republican says "I am here to help the wealthy and powerful rob your family every chance I get" they would be telling the truth. Everything else is a lie, or a distraction.

[DonCoquixote]

152. because we all know the GOP has no honesty

but as we need to remind people, this is the primary season, NOT the general where we blast thhe GOP. Not our fault DWS tried to smother the primary in the cradle.

[greiner3]

172. Safe as milk huh. Try that on the billions who can't digest dairy

[litlbilly]

39. Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better:)

[lewebley3]

97. I will keep supporting Hillary: to keep GOP out of the Whitehouse

Sanders will squashed like bug under Trumps heel.

[litlbilly]

99. You do know the polls now show Bernie crushing all repubs, Hillary is losing to Cruz and 1 ahead of

Trump. She will lose the whitehouse, Bernie will not only retain the whitehouse, but will greatly increase the chances of gaining huge in the congress and the senate. Just look at the polls on who beats the repubs. You might want to try a different angle.

[bjobotts]

107. It's the otherway around.Polls show Bernie beating Trump

[INdemo]

115. Obviously you haven't seen the GE

Polls with Sanders vs Trump.
Hillary supporters seem to pull these comments out of thin air and throw them out there and hope they stick but you know your comment is BS.
The fact is Hillary will lose because if she is the nominee 17% of Democrats will stay away from the polls because they don't want to see another Clinton in the White House

[Left Coast2020]

133. A typical argurement from a Hillary supporter

Bernie winning GE? la lal la la la la la la. Bernie up in polls? la la la la la la.....

[PatrickforO]

177. Interesting assertion. Just out of curiosity,

where did you get the 17%. I mean, it is credulous, but I'm wondering where it came from.

If Clinton is the nominee I'll have to look at ALL the other candidates before I hold my nose and vote for her - I do know that. The Supreme Court is a big deal, so I would have to enter that variable in the analysis. I mean, you've got Gloria Riva, Dr. Jill Stein and some others that have potentially worthy positions, but again the Supreme Court is a big deal.

Thing is, I don't believe three things that are crucial:

1. I do not believe Clinton can win the primary, and in the unlikely event she does,
2. I do not believe she can win the general election, and in the EXTREMELY unlikely event she does,
3. She will not be able to govern at all because it will be impeachment city from day #1 - seriously, the GOP is already slavering.

So, for me, guys, it's Bernie or bust!

[PatrickforO]

176. Squashed like a bug...

My that's a BOLD statement.

[Duckfan]

179. Bernie has said he wants to be in GE with tRump

Apparently that would be an easy choice for the voter with some intelligence.

[pangaia]

41. Surely you jest.

".... it’s because it is hard to believe that Hillary Clinton sincerely believes much of anything that she says. "

THAT is the god awful truth.

[lewebley3]

65. No its not: Hillary has always supported worked for Dem's and the American people

Sanders has been an hot air talker: He cannot break up
banks he doesn't have the votes or the money.


Its hard to believe Sanders these days: he now promising
a single payer program without votes or money to pay for
it.

Sanders has never accomplished anything to date in the Senate!

He bashes the ACA, when the GOP gunning for it.

Sanders is not someone the American people should trust,
Dem's should vote real Dem.

[pangaia]

73. OK, if you say so.

[Jackilope]

49. Strong as in strong candidate? Nope.

She is out to help Wall St. and her financial corporate backers. The 1% are cool with her or the GOP guys, which will most likely be Rubio when all is said or done.

Seriously, we need to rid our party of the Clinton's, the DWS types and actually take our party back. Tired of the 1% running the show.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Verily, she's got what plants crave.

[Fawke Em]

94. LOL. That made me think of this:

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Exactly.

[Left Coast2020]

134. And I thought of this:

Joe Isuzu

[hedda_foil]

100. What in her history shows what a great get things done gal she is.

I can't think of any big accomplishments or even medium-sized ones. I'd feel a lot better about her if anyone can provide a few examples of her getting things done-ifying.

[lewebley3]

101. If you cannot think of Hillary's accomplishments you have been living under

a rock:

[hedda_foil]

114. Okay. I've been living under a rock then. She's had a couple of fancy gigs but what has she done?

Biography does not equal getting things done What things has she gotten done?

[Mike__M]

144. " . . . "

"The crickets' million roundsong dies away
from all advances, rising in every distance."

[Scootaloo]

103. What's it like to participate in the Arirang Festival? looks like hard work!

[rhett o rick]

131. Her fatal weakness is honesty. She has amassed $50 million dollars for her personal fortune

in a decade. Seems to be a high priority with her.

[bvf]

154. What?

[Awknid]

3. K & R

[EdwardBernays]

4. It's like she thought

"what's the most self-destructive, least believable attack I can think of and how do I make it in such a way so that my daughter becomes a target for the media?"

Maybe Jr still has this laying around for Hillary to hang up at headquarters.

[Wilms]

5. Commander in Chief??

I prefer someone not tied in a knot from twisting in to so many positions.

[AlbertCat]

6. hard to believe that Hillary Clinton sincerely believes much of anything that she says.

Indeed.

[jeff47]

13. And these attacks just shine a giant spotlight on that.

Who the hell thought highlighting her greatest weakness is a good strategy? Does some idiot think reversing Rove's strategy works?

[Safe as Milk]

92. Her distorted criticism of Sanders' health care proposals weaken the argument...

... that there is little evidence that she's earned the reputation of being dishonest.

[Shadowflash]

14. Her only sincere, core belief is that she wants to be president.

Everything else is up for the highest bid.

[roguevalley]

50. the whole vibe of her campaign is just off, flat and fraught. I feel it permeating

everything. When I look at Bernie I feel hope and joy. WHen I think of her its the exact opposite. If you're going to be all machiavelli then don't let it show. She can't help but let it show.

[GoneFishin]

146. You are both correct.

[lewebley3]

19. Hillary speaks from the Heart and her record supports her she is very honest

Salon is smearing Hillary for Sanders:

[AlbertCat]

25. and he(r) record supports her she (is) very honest

Duck! Sniper fire!

[lob1]

108. And the Clintons were near bankruptcy when they left the WH.

[Kall]

142. It was even worse than that.

They weren't just near bankruptcy. They were dead broke.

A politician who makes unforced errors like that will be eaten alive in a general election.

[Ikonoklast]

159. They were almost forced to sell of one of their mansions!

THE HORROR



What bullshit, as if she actually thinks anyone believes that tripe.

[asjr]

37. You are correct. But most people here are either

Republican or are so happy they can write ugly things about her. Whatever happened to people who can listen to each other without making others unhappy? It is obvious those here do not like Hillary and will believe any story about her is good enough that they can chime in and agree and feel smug about it. There is not a channel on television or a newspaper that gives a hoot about the smart aleck views they have. They do it because it gets readers for their papers. I can vote either for Sanders or Hillary--it is my decision. Mine alone.

[roguevalley]

51. this is a message board where information and ideas are exchanged. Any story

about them will be here. public forum.

[cui bono]

58. Have you not read the news in the last two days?

Even the MSM is saying she lied, was dishonest, etc... wake up and take your head out of the sand. Anyone who supports the bashing of single-payer must be a Republican. Chelsea and Hillary are using Republicanesque talking points against Bernie and single-payer just as the teabaggers did against Obama and the ACA.

.

[asjr]

71. I think I probably need to explain myself. When I was in school in East Tennessee in the 1940s

and 1950s we did not have a T.V. until I had graduated High School. We had an antenna on the roof of our house, but still relied on our radio. Our daily newspaper mostly had a few page one news bits but it was mostly (and I think you will not understand this) about Mr and Mrs So and So visited their relatives this weekend and enjoyed an outdoor lunch after church at the Great Balls of Fire Church. If someone happened to be running for office everyone had something to say about him. No one would have said "wake up and take your head out of the sand." You are not telling me what Hillary is. You are telling me what you think she is. I must tell you (though you probably will not give a hoot) I am 83 years old, was brought up with manners and love of family. There were plenty of kooks in our family but we got along.

[cui bono]

75. When the words are on video it's hard to dispute that she lied. I don't "think" she lied. She DID.

And she sent her daughter out to lie as well. When the MSM actually uses the word "lie" you can bet it probably happened since they are loathe to actually use the L word.

Also, unfortunately for you, the user name you replied to is never factual, always bad mouths Sanders and Thom Hartmann and basically continuously spews what appear to be automated posts from a bot. When you agree with someone like that and you go against what all the facts have shown to be true over the last couple days, well, you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Read the news from the last two days. There's plenty of OPs on here that discuss it or you can google these terms together "Hillary lied dishonest" and just search for the last two days worth of stories and you will find that the person you agreed with is completely incorrect and therefore you are as well.

.

[Left Coast2020]

135. And don't forget that when she proposed her health care plan as First Lady

....she did it in secret. That's why it went down in flames. There was no public discussion or debate in Congress.

Obama told us what ACA was about. And it was debated in Congress. That's why it passed because of strong PUBLIC support.

[Fawke Em]

96. I'm from and still live in East Tennessee and I can tell you that

Hillary did, indeed lie, in this case.

[pangaia]

112. HA HA !!! OR as the younger generation says.. LOL !!!

good one.

[pangaia]

113. BTW.

I was born on Guy Fawkes Day.

Lucky me, eh..

[pangaia]

111. I DO believe you. really. I do. And I understand what you are saying.

I am 72. When I was little my sister and I would sometimes fight like cats and dogs. Boy did WE learn a lot.

[John Poet]

122. I'm voting for Hillary----

for President of the 'Goldwater Girls'

[Bradical79]

67. Well, that's a laughable.

We all know Republicans are diehard fans of universal healthcare and fighting for higher minimum wage

No one said your vote is not your decision. If you can't defend a very clear case of your prefered candidate flip-flopping and being dishonest without lying yourself, why do you bother responding?

She said this stuff in front of tv cameras and debates. The facts of the matter are available whether you want to pretend they are or not. Playing up dishonest fears on taxes? Lying about the costs of universal healthcare and fear mongering over people losing their insurance? That sounds a hell of a lot more like a Republican than anything Bernie Sanders or his supporters on this site have said. Hell, that's almost straight out of the Republican play book when it comes to attacking Obamacare.

You don't think single payer is a good idea? You don't think taxes on the wealthy should be raised? Fine. Just don't call Social Democratic policy supporters Republican. It's just stupid and an outright lie.

[pangaia]

109. You know, I have an idea..

Why don't you and 'lewebley3' and 'thinkingabout' get together and chat.

Really. I mean it. That way you can have a really good time and none of you will be unhappy.

[litlbilly]

42. Just the opposite actually, all you have to do is look.

[lewebley3]

62. No just the truth: Hillary has had successes: Sanders has hot air

[litlbilly]

66. What? I have no idea what you just said. You do know hot air is subjective right? What is

surceases? I have never seen or heard that word

[hedda_foil]

105. This has nothing to do with Salon and everything to do with the candidate.

I can't see a microgram of evidence to support your assertion.

[CorporatistNation]

130. Is Hillary's campaign Paying You To Make These Bizarre Statements?

Anyone who heard her description of Bernie's Health Care Plan as characterized as being "FREE"... which it is not... (paid for by a small tax and her misrepresentation of its cost projection of 15 TRILLION Dollars... (She characterized as a Tax Hike while neglecting that Total Cost for Health Care would go down and Private Insurance Premiums would be eliminated)... demonstrates in a profound manner the lengths to which Hillary ... will PERSONALLY GO... TO TRASH HER OPPONENT!

[pangaia]

43. OR her daughter.

[JDPriestly]

7. Chelsea's statement was kind of funny.

Hey! Sanders is going to take away the alphabet soup of programs and agencies and replace them with one, solid, responsive healthcare plan.

What's wrong with that. If you have the time and money, you should be allowed to opt out as long as you pay your taxes to make sure everyone else gets the simplified version of healthcare.

Simplification of healthcare. That's what Hillary and Chelsea are complaining about? Not a winner! In fact, that is a big loser.

We need single payer health insurance.

And if only for two reasons: one, early diagnosis of cancer among indigent people and people in work transitions. two, drug and alcohol and eating addictions. Addicts are people whose lives are disrupted by their addictions. They need attentive, focused healthcare from teams of people who specialize in their disorders.

Lack of a community outside the community of addiction is one of the problems for people who find themselves addicted to something.

We need a new healthcare field that focuses on the problems of people with addiction. Addiction tends in many cases to interfere with a person's ability to find sober community, to complete a lot of forms, to comply with rules, to do all the things that signing up for and getting good healthcare required.

A single payer, universal healthcare system could enable US to enable people with addiction problems to find a healthcare community that would serve their needs. It would also enable US to learn a lot more about addiction.

Right now, we imprison or jail a lot of addicts. They find community -- among other temporarily sober addicts who are also jailed and imprisoned. What a stupid way to deal with addiction.

Hillary's policy proposals are so aimed at winning the vote at the given moment of the last poll. She is not really thinking what is best for America.

Her stance addiction and her stance on single payer are opposed to each other.

She is just not the best candidate out there. Bernie is!

[AllyCat]

17. Not to mention pregnant women going to the methadone clinics, where they meet

Other pregnant moms on methadone. Hen when they are inpatient or otherwise at the hospital, many for MONTHS if the baby is in the NICU for withdrawal, they can all rally up with each other. And someone always seems to have a line on something. They need care away from other addicts.

[roguevalley]

52. at least twice lately women were kicked out of hospitals and died outside on the ground.

that's hillary world as per her talking points. Don't change that, Bernie. We don't need change like that.

[lewebley3]

20. Chelsea told the truth: Sanders is bashing ACA: and Obama

[arcane1]

31. She lied and said he wants to "dismantle Medicare"

You are so not worth your current pay. Someone's getting ripped off

[lewebley3]

61. She told the truth about Sanders: he is dishonest about the ACA

[arcane1]

63. Play that role! Maybe someday you'll be good at it

On second thought, probably not.

[lewebley3]

64. You keeping playing like Sander has been useful to Dem's

[intersectionality]

98. And you keep playing like hilldawg has...

Without recognizing that ever since Obama said her biggest weakness was foreign policy, crushed her on it, and then appointed her to be chief of bad foreign policy because she talked Obama into every bad strategy on the planet.... She has done only stupid ass shit that is a direct reflection of her pro-fucking up the Middle East decision she made as a weak willed senator who can't do much besides blow in the political wind. She helped destroy Libya and create Isis. If you don't think she is part of the problem you are blind.

[pangaia]

45. Thank you for your input.

You are almost as entertaining as THINKINGABOUT

[kath]

53. +a brazillion

[pangaia]

57. I thought that was pretty good, myself. :>)))

[Hissyspit]

72. Politifact: Chelsea Clinton on Sanders Healthcre Plan 'Mostly False'

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/14/chelsea-clinton/chelsea-clinton-mischaracterizes-bernie-sanders-he/

[lewebley3]

74. Politicfacrts is a GOP supporters outfit

[hueymahl]

76. You are kind of like listening to my grandfather after he had a stroke

Are you sure you are ok? Please get checked out if you are having stroke symptoms.

[lewebley3]

77. poltifact doesn't take on Trump: they aren't worth much

[hueymahl]

79. Really?

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Seriously, seek medical intervention. The life you save may be your own.

[Hissyspit]

104. Not really true.

[Left Coast2020]

137. I repeat

[bvf]

155. You should blog. n/t

[Hissyspit]

102. Actually, they've been doing a great job of pointing out that Repubs have been massively

lying and Dems have been mostly telling the truth.

[SammyWinstonJack]

145. Are you for real? Seriously...

[JDPriestly]

143. No. Obama and I remember this because it was a special speech to his supporters

about two weeks before passage of the ACA said he wanted a public option.

There was no public option in the final bill.

Single payer is the natural successor to the ACA. Single payer exists in most of the developed world. We should adopt it too. We need to move toward it. It may be difficult to adopt single payer in one move. It may take a bit of time. The next step may be single payer, but it may be the public option that Bernie wants. It may also turn out to be expanding medicare to those 50 and older or those 55 and older. Costs a bit more to cover the workers 55 and older, so opting for Medicare, subsidized when appropriate and otherwise paid by the subscriber or his/her employer may be a good choice.

We need to move toward single payer one way or another. It is the least expensive way to provide good coverage to all our citizens.

It is not an insult to Obamacare to favor single payer. And there is no reason to lie about the fact that cutting for-profit insurance companies that screen every claim would make the insurance less expensive.

[wordpix]

169. The aca only passed with Big Pharma/Insurance blessings

It is better than nothing for sure bc pre-existing conditions are covered, Medicaid is expanded and there are caps on out of pocket costs by those insured. Still, I paid $17,000 in my first two months of cancer diagnosis and major surgery, out of pocket. This was for one month under pre-aca private insurance and one month of aca insurance. That is not sustainable for most people including me. And now premiums are going sky high. So, imo the aca should be replaced by Medicare for all and negotiated drug prices, for gawd's sake, instead of allowing a $22,000 charge per round of conventional chemo that was an IV drip mostly at home with a portable pump. That was my bill for one round. I needed 12.

[fbc]

8. Not only "on" the offensive, Hillary Clinton is offensive

[kath]

12. truly.

[Duval]

9. I believe she'll say anything to get elected and then

as Madame President, she'll flip again. Wish I could trust her, but I don't.

[Jack Rabbit]

10. Thank you, Willy

[Mike__M]

11. Geez, it almost starts to look like

Hillary Clinton will say anything to avoid being elected president.

[loyalsister]

123. I have had the same thought

Email gate really stands out to me. I can't comprehend how a member of the executive branch doesn't follow the letter of the law when she spent 8 years up close and personal and watched her husband get impeached over an insignificant, but very real crime.
She said they were dead broke, has obvious 1% and too close to Wall Street image problems. And when she had a chance to rehabilitate it at a presidential forum in racial and economic justice, she chose not to.
I am baffled.

[AllyCat]

15. I was stunned when I heard both women's attack on single-payer

Who needs CHIP and private insurance and ACA when you have better and cheaper? Tenet Healthcare's latest quagmire to weaken safety standards. For pediatric surgeries are just the latest example of why for-profit healthcare doesn't work for us.

[ejbr]

16. Is it just me

or have her supporters on this site gone AWOL? It seems that now that her poll numbers aren't impressive, they have nothing to defend her with.

"Who cares if she is an opportunistic fibber, she is still leading in the polls!"

As if this is a legitimate defense to her antics.

[restorefreedom]

29. i noticed that too

now that they don't have polls showing her 30 points ahead, and watching her campaign completely implode in desperation, i guess they have nothing to say.

[arcane1]

32. I would hide in embarrassment too, if it was me. n/t

[winter is coming]

33. Absence usually precedes a fresh onslaught of talking points. n/t

[litlbilly]

46. I'm sure they are huddled in a room somewhere trying to make some up:)

[MisterP]

129. anyone check that room?

[Warren DeMontague]

149. you mean it's not a total coincidence when they all show up at once using the exact same verbiage?

Wow, imagine that.

[cui bono]

40. I commented on that yesterday. Even they won't defend her blatant lies.

That's how bad this is.

.

[ejbr]

55. Lord knows I went to bat

for Bernie's gun "problems". I can't imagine supporting someone whose positives can't at least outweigh the negatives. That at least would be a defense

[pangaia]

47. It is NOT just you.

[morningfog]

128. She's uninevitable again. Be easy on them, they're still hurt from 2008.

Damnit it was her ten, she waited an it is her turn again.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. I've said all along, if she doesn't get it this time, the shit-losing in some corners will be EPIC.

And I mean E-P-I-C.

[CharlotteVale]

18. You'd think she'd be better at lying with all her practice.

[BeanMusical]

21. Kick and R

[Scalded Nun]

22. I would be more willing to support her if she would actually stick to causes she believes/believed

Her constant changing to suit prevailing winds convinces me that she would not be best to serve as our leader. I want to support someone who is willing to take a stand on issues (issues I believe worthwhile, of course) and follow those stances up with a staunch defense, not change as soon as it looks unpopular. That shows no real commitment.

The Bernie's and Elizabeth's of this great country need to have their chance to remold us into something better than what we have become. That takes commitment. They have it. Hillary does not.

I do not have to like everything they say (that will probably never happen!), but I have to believe they mean what they say.

[Shadowflash]

59. She hasn't canged her mind on EVERYTHING...

.... She still wants to be President.

[SoapBox]

23. Agreed.

And then it made me start thinking...

Will she and her crew be attempting to scare Americans (Boo!) about their Healthcare? Will this now be her big attack point? She's sounding like she's digging into this oh-so-wrong stance...

Is it the "3AM phone call" version of dirty politics but for 2016?

I don't trust her for nothing.

[Helen Borg]

26. Boom, 2008 redux!

[kenfrequed]

30. Hell, Hillary's attacks are starting to sound like republican spin

How many frames removed is this from "you will lose your healthcare under obamacare" ?

Is she going to bring up death panels next?

[raindaddy]

34. It's called lying! We saw the same when she ran against Obama...

[cui bono]

38. they may very well remind voters, once again, that Hillary Clinton will say anything to be elected

President.

Amen to that.

.

[litlbilly]

69. The key word here: anything. If she says and does the wrong thing? How is that smart? Here's a

quote from Support your local Sheriff that this reminds me of, "Ive been around Joe all afternoon and haven't heard him say one smart thing yet". One of my favorite lines from James Garner, RIP James

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. It's déjà vu all over again. Reminds me totally of 2008.

Right about the time Obama was picking up steam and improving in the polls, Hillary started fighting dirty and grotesquely misrepresenting his positions (not to mention playing nasty little tunes on her dog whistle). I had been kind of uncommitted, leaning towards Edwards until he fell apart, but when Hillary so clearly went to the dark side I wrote her off and voted for Obama in my caucus. I attributed at least some of that to the reprehensible Mark Penn, but maybe it's just her....

[Enthusiast]

68. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[mwb970]

70. The right-wingers are all sure that she will be in prison before the election.

They all say this in the various comment sections. Yet I never hear about it on the actual news, or even TYT, etc. Strange.

[Thenewire]

78. The democratic party cannot win the election with Sanders.

I agree with Sander's ideas but they will not win the election. Even Martin O'Malley has a better chance of winning the general election against the republicans. If it ends up being Sanders vs Trump or any other republican clown I'm positive that the fear mongering from the right, which I assure you will be relentless, will sway the majority of independents their way. I understand that there are no good candidates and the lack of good candidates has swayed the focus to Sanders for liberals but he is not the solution, he will be the downfall of us all. If what I say isn't true then feel free to come back and ridicule me after the general election but if it is, you have only yourself to blame. You will be to blame once a republican is elected president and proceeds to dismantle the affordable care act, decimates the EPA and signs into law anti-LGBT rights after packing the supreme court with conservatives.

[GoneOffShore]

90. Ah, the Nader argument.

Don't be silly.

[Iggo]

140. I'm glad you brought up "fear mongering from the right."

People should really watch out for that kind of thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. If he can defeat the mighty inevitable Clinton, what makes you think he can't beat the GOP?

PS. His favorables are higher and he polls better than she does against the Republicans.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton

[Thenewire]

158. That doesn't matter at all

Clinton has been under attack and has faced negative propaganda from republicans for nearly 3 decades. They have barely started noticing Sanders but once they do they will unleash everything they have on him. The republicans have no ethics and will do anything, even resort to outright lies and manipulation to win and the media will side with them as they have been doing all along.

[LondonReign2]

162. "even resort to outright lies"

Indeed, we could never support a candidate who did that, now could we?

[Thenewire]

165. You are right and this is one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives

We are aware of liars and call them out as should be the case. Conservatives either don't realize when they are being lied to or disregard the lie since it fits their narrative which can never be rationalized if not by lies. In any case I'm not advocating for Clinton but rather hoping to prevent the greatest defeat to progressive ideals in our generation. Even O'Malley has a better chance of winning the general election then Sanders.

[LondonReign2]

173. Right, pre-emtively blaming liberals and claiming the only way can

win is by selecting the crappy candidate who blatantly lies? Yeah, I think I'll pass on your suggestion.

[Thenewire]

174. There is no way that Sanders will win the general election.

He doesn't have the personality or the charisma. But he does have the potential to destroy the Democratic party and any future progressive candidate who might have a chance under a more favorable cultural environment. If Clinton loses the general election then fine, we can blame it on the fact that she is actually a conservative. If Sanders loses then there will only be his ideas to blame. Ideas like single payer that will never be touched by future candidates and considered poison by the democratic party as a whole. We are at risk of a major rightward shift in the spectrum if Sanders loses the general election. There will no longer be a viable route for progressives.

[LondonReign2]

175. FEAR! Unfortunately your friends have tried this line of attack before

Although I do like the twist of "we don't want progressives' ideas to be rejected in the future so we have to reject them now!"

Check your playbook for your next talking point.

[snort]

164. I'm terrified.

I'll be voting for Hillary now, she'll protect me. rah.

[LondonReign2]

161. Yes, yes.

If Hillary is such an awful candidate that she can't win despite an endless supply of money and every establishment Dem lined up behind her, well then...IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT!

[nashville_brook]

166. The democratic party cannot win the election with Clinton.

[wordpix]

170. I disagree vehemently

Once the electorate hears Bernie 's commonsense framing of issues and solutions, he will get lots of support from all persuasions. Look at how well he was received at liberty university.

[99Forever]

80. Hillary Clinton isn't fit for office. ANY office.

As smart as she is, she never seems to learn anything from the mistakes she makes on such a regular basis. If it's because of the people she surrounds herself with, then that shows an even poorer lack of judgement in who she listens to.

I sincerely hope that once she has conceded and withdrawn from this race, I never hear her name again.

[Still In Wisconsin]

82. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Shrillary should have gone away eight years ago...

instead, she's dragging the country through the same, tired old shit again. And she said she was going to run a much different campaign. Looks a hell of a lot like 2008 again to me.

[99Forever]

87. I don't think Hillary is capable on being anything except what she is.

And what that is, isn't what We the People or this Nation need.

[Still In Wisconsin]

81. The most telling line in the whole piece is this:

"But most of all, I think, it’s because it is hard to believe that Hillary Clinton sincerely believes much of anything that she says. "

I don't think Hill the Shill believes anything other than that she is entitled- yes ENTITLED- to be President.

[GoneOffShore]

83. ^This^

[MissDeeds]

84. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

148. Entitled to be President. This is her last shot at that. I hope she fails

[Warren DeMontague]

85. More pathological misogyny!

Is there no end to the misogyny?!?!?!?!

[billhicks76]

91. Her Weakness Is That She Lies All The Time

And she thinks that's normal.

[senz]

118. However, it is alarmingly abnormal.

I think something is wrong with this individual.

[billhicks76]

178. Corruption Of Character

Money and Power the culprits no doubt.

[Plucketeer]

93. SPOT ON!

Hillary's still working with that notion that the public has NO WAY to fact check her Bullshit. Dear Ms. Clinton..... there's this cool and handy thing called the internet. Among the MANY things one can watch and review there are all the public professments you've made in the past. For that matter - all the things that Bernie's said in the past.

[HassleCat]

110. I don't know about "fatal"

Her campaign is perhaps too aggressive for the circumstances, but I don't know if that is fatal. It does illustrate that she is not particularly progressive when it comes to health care. Rank and file Democrats support single payer. It is the party leadership that lags behind on this issue, and that appears to be a matter of avoiding getting tagged with the progressive or socialist labels. No worries there. It's unlikely any thinking person will mistake Hillary Clinton for a progressive, let alone a socialist.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

116. It still hasn't dawned on the Clintons that they don't OWN the Democratic Party....

And they also aren't the final word over what is considered to be a "progressive" or a "liberal" for that matter.

[jalan48]

117. I think Bernie as the Presidential nominee and Hillary as VP is an unbeatable combination.

[YOHABLO]

119. Elizabeth Warren would be a better choice.

[jalan48]

120. Bernie needs to go after the more conservative Democratic vote.

Warren would be the best policy wise but she and Bernie are too much alike.

[Le Taz Hot]

163. One of the best things about Hillary losing the nomination (again)

is that she'll be completely out of politics. The LAST thing I want to do is to bring that corporate shill into the White House again. There are MANY centrist/Third Way politicos that will be more than happy for a VP spot. Hillary needs to go away forever.

[John Poet]

121. Just when you think the Clintons can't get any more dishonest--

-- they do.

This new attack has all the political brilliance of a rotten tomato.

[WestSeattle2]

124. Insincerity is the least of Ms. Clinton's shortcomings. Clinton fatigue has set in already.

[MrMickeysMom]

125. Hill, Yeah, WillyT

This was a wrong move in a turning tide.

[Still In Wisconsin]

126. Hillary Clinton's fatal weakness is, simply, that she is Hillary Clinton.

There's just nothing to like.

[morningfog]

127. She's just not good at this. And she's a nasty liar.

[Beartracks]

132. "Since when do Democrats attack one another on universal health care?"

A very interesting Hillary quote* (from the Salon link), given current events.

Facepalms, Hillary. Nothing but facepalms on this one.





* Noted in the OP's link, from when she campaigned in 2008 against Obama

======================

[Liberal_in_LA]

141. Bernie zombies post neg stuff about clinton then thumbs up it to the greatest page

[cali]

147. Hillary lies. Gets called on it. Hill supporters whine

[Kalidurga]

153. This is only negative because Hillary lied. Deal with it.

We get to call out the lying liars. It is what liberals do.

[Warren DeMontague]

157. There's just no there there.

I wish there was, but as far as I can tell she's running on "vote for me because I'm Hillary Clinton"

Not exactly inspiring stuff, at least for those of us who havent spent the past 8 years waiting to get the prize we thought we deserved last time.

[Zen Democrat]

160. I think we should support our favorite knowing that we'll support whoever is the Democratic nominee.

I'm to the left of Hillary, so Bernie is my first choice. But if Hillary prevails, I'm her girl. I just don't want Democrats to wound our potential nominee by giving the Fascist Party ammunition to use against either of them.

This hatefulness among Democrats is disappointing, regardless of whether the opinions are coming from Bernie, Hillary, or Marty supporters. Support your candidate affirmatively, but hold your powder on the other Dem candidates. Just my 2 cents.

[LW1977]

167. O h gawd,

We're going to have a President Trump, these threads are living proof. Where's the Trump bashing, or Cruz bashing?

I don't care who gets the nomination, just as long as we don't get a President Trump or President Cruz, or even possibly a third President Bush (that doesn't seem likely right now) because people will take their ball and go home if their candidate doesn't get tne nomination!

Can't wait til the primaries are over!

[Cheap_Trick]

168. It's why I switched support from her to Obama in 2008.

She was running like a republican.

[Arugula Latte]

171. Hillary makes me cringe when I hear her speak...

and that's not a good reaction to evoke in a voter. She's not genuine, and it shows.