It doesn't matter that HRC is "pragmatic"...Rethugs will block everything SHE proposes.

[Ken Burch]

All of them think she's Satan in a pantsuit...all of them think she is a closet Maoist.

And none of them will ever compromise or negotiate with her on anything she could ever possibly propose.

Therefore, the "HRC can get things done, but Bernie CAN'T" canard is discredited by reality.

[hrmjustin]

1. You are deluding yourself if you think republicans are any likelier to help Sanders.

You guys think all he needs to do is talk and the country will heal itself.

[Ken Burch]

4. The point is, they equally wouldn't ever help HRC.

They've been demonizing her since 1992. They're not gonna turn around and work with her now.

[hrmjustin]

5. The point is yes it will be hard but Sanders will get as much opposition from them.

[Ken Burch]

9. Unlike HRC, Bernie will fight hard to defeat the forces that bought a GOP majority.

He will work to build the broad, ongoing people's movement needed to overturn the state legislatures that did the gerrymandering in the first place. As she always has throughout her career, HRC will do all she can do discourage the building of such a movement. Her notion of progressive politics is Davos(the belief that you can change the world through attending cocktail parties with Bono), not Porto Alegre(the realization that change can only ever be made through organization and mobilization from below).

There won't be any ways HRC will be any better at getting anything done than Bernie(or O'Malley) would be, and since she is always anti-activist and anti-organizing, she will be less effective.

And unlike Bernie, if she thinks she has to, HRC will immediatelyt ditch LGBTQ people and POC, just as she did in the Nineties.

The only way to win through for justice is to run a fiery, passionate people's crusade for a different world. Join us. Unlike HRC, we have your back.

[Stardust]

21. I am forwarding your post to a dear friend who supports HRC only for pragmatice reasons.

He just honestly thinks she could get more done than Sanders. Your post explains Bernie's plan for a revolution much better than I've been able to.

[daleanime]

27. +1

[katsy]

30. +1000

BS can motivate voters including the youth vote. As you stated, he will fight the status quo.

Look at HRCs campaign in 2008... She couldn't secure the nomination for a reason. Despite being the democratic establishments fave, she couldn't seal the deal. I totally respect HRC, and she was a net positive as SOS and she has been a rock against the rw goons that attack her relentlessly. I wish she and Bill would just serve to nurture and promote our next gen of Democratic leadership and connect with ordinary Americans in their service as elder statesmen. HRC could promote women's rights globally. She is so awesome on so many issues. I just can't see where she had the desire or fight in her to tackle the deep structural problems of our economy and the inequality it inflicts. People instinctively understand that bold action is necessary.

[kenfrequed]

32. If it is opposition either way

Then I would prefer the public see us being blocked for intensely populist and progressive legislation.


I don't think we need to be blocked for really hedging, squishy, moderate legislation that people can't even identify with.

[earthside]

13. The opposition will be much worse to Clinton.

This is a tribal grudge war with the Clintons and the Repuglican Party.
The epic war with Bill and Hillary has been going on for 32 years -- they are ready for her.

They missed on removing Bill from office ... the Repuglicans will go after Mrs. Clinton hammer, tong and rack.

Pres. Sanders will be new and a very different kind of leader; they will oppose him, but it will not be with the same visceral hatred they already have towards Hillary.

You Hillarians think all she needs to do is sound 'pragmatic' and the Repuglicans will crumble before her superiority.

[cui bono]

14. And they are going to do whatever Hillary wants?

Oh, yeah, Hillary isn't going to even try for single-payer. Is that better?

You have accepted defeat before you've even tried to achieve anything. Why are you so willing to give up that kind of power to the GOP? Why do you want to allow the GOP to determine what policy our candidates should be for? Why are you letting the GOP win without even an attempt at accomplishing our goals? Why are you letting the GOP lessen make you try for less than what Dems want?

I mean really, how does anyone achieve anything that means anything if they give up before they even try? That's what you Hillary supporters are telling us we're supposed to do.

How did we land on the moon? How was electricity invented? How was flying invented? Do they really think these things were achieved because people didn't try to achieve them and waited for the people who didn't believe it could happen or didn't want it to happen allowed them to make it happen? Does that make any sense at all???

What about same sex marriage? Should we have not tried to get it anywhere and just waited until the GOP allowed it? It certainly didn't look as if it was going to happen so fast but lo and behold, we now have it. What if no one had bothered trying? It would never have happened, that's what.

That line of argument that we have to be pragmatic and not even try anything because the big bad GOP is out there is just an excuse to keep pushing a corporate agenda. It must be because what I stated above is so obvious. It's what we're taught as children, you have to try, you can't win if you don't try, give it your all, etc...

.

[Avalux]

2. Yes and don't forget, Bill will be her economic advisor.

Someone please explain to me how that will help to get things done with the Republicans.

[cui bono]

12. And how that will help the people who need help.

Welfare 'reform'?

NAFTA?

Repealing Glass-Steagall?

No thanks!

.

[brewens]

3. Bernie will at least raise holy hell and try and bust through the obstructionism. I don't

think Hillary will really want to.

[kcjohn1]

6. Exactly

Only legislation you can expect Clinton administration to pass through republican congress is something like TPP and/or grand "bargain" with tax "reform" along with cuts in social programs pushed by big business.

I rather see Sanders administration achieve nothing but keep important topics like universal healthcare, equality, campaign finance reform, etc in the national dialogue and who is standing in the way.

[onecaliberal]

7. She will never be POTUS. If she is our nominee, tRump will be elected.

[Live and Learn]

8. Well, I don't know, Bill got a few things through. Things the republicans wanted like NAFTA,

Welfare Reform and deregulation. Betting Hillary would do more of the same. Maybe she will throw in equal pay for women but of course equal pay will be $12 an hour nearly across the board for working 'folks'.

[Nedsdag]

10. Which is what I told Hillary supporters

She won't be able to get anything passed.

If anything, they would impeach her instead of working with her.

[cui bono]

15. "If anything, they would impeach her instead of working with her."

Yes! And can you imagine the uproar if they tried to impeach Bernie! omg...

.

[cui bono]

11. "pragmatic" at this point simply means "corporate".

I mean really, how does anyone achieve anything that means anything if they give up before they even try? That's what all the Hillary supporters are telling us we're supposed to do.

How did we land on the moon? How was electricity invented? How was flying invented? Do they really think these things were achieved because people didn't try to achieve them and waited for the people who didn't believe it could happen or didn't want it to happen allowed them to make it happen? Does that make any sense at all???

.

[KittyWampus]

20. No, it doesn't. Only an ideologue would not grasp what pragmatism means

and twist it into a cartoon version of reality.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. +100

[Progressive dog]

16. Hillary has raised money for the DNC,

which uses the money to help elect other Democrats. That is the point of belonging to a party.
Besides, President Obama has manged to keep the country running even with Republicans in power. They hate him at least as much as they hate Hillary. Many still don't even believe he is an American.

[tazkcmo]

17. Unbelievable

I agree and just find it willfully ignorant. Sec Clinton proclaimed them her personal enemy number one and now she's going to "reach across the aisle". It'll only happen because it'll be about the TPP and raising the retirement age.

[azmom]

18. Republicans truly hate the Clintons. She said as much

During one of the debates. They will never work with her.

[KittyWampus]

19. Except she actually has worked within the Congressional Democratic party over the years

Unlike Sanders. So she has at least of base of support to start with.

[Ken Burch]

24. Bernie has worked with Congressional Dems for decades.

He has always organized in the House and Senate with them, has voted for thousands of pieces of Democratic legislation-often with greater loyalty than some Congressional Dems(cough, cough, Heath Shuler and Joe Lieberman, to name only two) and has campaigned for Democratic candidates all across the country.

And his criticism of the party's past direction has always been justified-I think we'd all admit that no Democratic president should ever be as far to the right on economics, trade policy and military policy as President Carter and the first President Clinton, and that progressives, labor, POC and the poor never deserved the treatment the party has inflicted on them since 1972.

[Gothmog]

22. The control of the SCOTUS is one of my key issues

One of the key issues that I am considering in the upcoming primary contest is the control of the SCOTUS. The 5 to 4 decisions that came down at the end of last term show how important the SCOTUS is ad the control of the SCOTUS will be determined by the 2016 election. http://theweek.com/articles/564891/why-2016-supreme-court-election

And in the next term, there are positive signs for the right. The justices have already agreed to hear a case that could put the final nail in affirmative action's coffin, as well as one that could cripple public sector unions. The justices are also likely to take one or more cases on restrictions at abortion clinics, and if they rule the way conservatives want, it could make abortions almost impossible to obtain in large swaths of the country.

All that is unlikely to banish the memory of the last couple of weeks from Republicans' minds, and you can bet that the GOP presidential candidates are going to have to promise primary voters that they'll deliver more Supreme Court justices like Alito, and fewer like Anthony Kennedy or even Roberts. If Democrats care about their own agenda, they ought to be no less motivated to vote by the prospect of changes in the court....

While it's possible that they all might decide to hold out until there's a president of their own party to replace them, infirmity or illness may make that impossible. And it's been an awfully long time since a president had the opportunity to change the court's course. The last time a Republican managed it was when George H.W. Bush appointed Clarence Thomas to replace the retiring Thurgood Marshall. And Democrats? Believe it or not, it's been over six decades since a Democratic president had the opportunity to replace a conservative justice; the last one to do it was John F. Kennedy, who appointed Byron White to a seat when Charles Evans Whittaker, who had been appointed by President Eisenhower, resigned in 1962.

If the next president gets that chance, no matter which party he or she comes from, it will profoundly affect the court's direction. If a Republican could appoint someone to replace Ginsburg or Breyer, it would mean a 6-3 conservative majority, which means that Kennedy would no longer be the swing vote and there would be a margin for error in every case. If a Democratic president were to replace Scalia or Kennedy, then the court would go from 5-4 in favor of the conservatives to 5-4 in favor of the liberals.

Those two outcomes would produce two radically different Supreme Courts, with implications that would shape American life for decades. If you think the court has been handling controversial and consequential cases lately, just you wait.

I remember when GHWBush replaced Thurgood Marshal with that idiot Clarence Thomas which started the shift of the court towards being far more conservative. If the GOP gets to pick the replacements for Breyer and RBG, then the court will tilted to the right for a very very long time. By the same measure, if a Democratic President gets to select Kennedy's or Scalia's replacment, then we will not have to worry about the gutting of the right to privacy or Roe v. Wade.

All but a couple of the abortion clinics in Texas were scheduled to be shut down on July 1 and these clinics are still open due to a 5 to 4 decision. Affirmative action, one man one vote and a host of important issues will be decided next year and I would hate to see the SCOTUS shift to being a 6 to 3 court in favor of the conservatives.

[Ken Burch]

23. Bernie will nominate great justices, too. And we now know he is just as electabler as HRC.

People power can defeat Big Money.

[Gothmog]

25. If he gets elected-I do not believe that he is viable

I do not believe that Sanders is viable in a general election campaign where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will be spending another billion dollars. It does not make sense to me to risk control of the SCOTUS for a generation on a candidate who is not viable

[libdem4life]

28. The inference of "tribal war" is certainly correct. The hate is, IMO, unreasonable, but

exists in spades. There have been articles about some Republicans considering voting for Bernie, or at least interested in his ideas. He is not a lightning rod of opposition and firepower...he is well known for working with them for years in Congress.

It has been said and not refuted...He has no (political) enemies in Washington. And he knows the system, how it works, who to team up, etc.

Hillary is now desperate and she does even less well in that situation. She does have many things to become the President...except a couple...she's not trustworthy and when she feels attacked (right or wrong) she does unwise things. That is not Presidential.

Bernie is solid as a rock. And please spare me the actions of his hands and arms. He's also committed and the body adds content to the words.

[AgingAmerican]

29. They believe things like Sequestration are 'pragmatic'.

Pragmatic is their buzz word for 'Kissing up to Republicans and giving them everything they want for nothing in return'.

[kenfrequed]

31. Exactly

And the disadvantage is that rather than the Bernie Democratic starting point being intensely populist and progressive and giving us the ability to spin their opposition to policies that benefit the people, we will have Hillary's stilted and very hedging squishy policy that she puts forth that people will be harder to energize when the GOP does try blocking it.

[2pooped2pop]

33. everything will end with a win for corporations, republicans, and Hillary

we the people, will be told how hard she fought to save us but had to compromise and give the republicans and corporations most of what they wanted. She will save a tiny bone for us to show us what she won.

[Motown_Johnny]

34. But Hillary won't block everything the Rethugs propose.

She would do what they want and call it "common ground".