If somehow Hillary does NOT get the nomination, I wonder if she will do a full Lieberman...

[Still In Wisconsin]

or even a half-Lieberman. I suppose it would depend on who the Repukes nominate.

[emulatorloo]

1. No.

She supported and campaigned for Obama in '08. She will endorse Bernie. Should Bernie not win the nomination, he will endorse and campaign for HRC.

None of our candidates will do anything to allow a Republican to win.

[unapatriciated]

5. I agree this is a non issue.

[morningfog]

23. I'm not so sure. In '08, I think her support depended on the SoS position and

her perception that she would then walk to the 2016 nomination. This is her last chance. If she sees Sanders as the Dem nominee and Trump as the repub, she may think she could win a majority in that three way match up.

[SheilaT]

24. I'm inclined to agree with you.

I suspect that a some point before the convention Obama reached out to her, promised her a position in the Cabinet, and that's why she finally stopped fighting his nomination.

She's not going to go the independent route. She would absolutely not win in a three way match up, but would instead insure the Republican's election. She's not a complete idiot.

[ieoeja]

29. As an Indy in a 3-way against Trump and Sanders, she would be "the" mainstream candidate.

She might get a lot of support from establishmentarians on both sides of the aisle. And lets not discount a horde of people dying to elect our first female president.

I hadn't thought of this before. But if Trump and Sanders get the respective nods, Hillary might actually be the front runner as an Indy.


A year ago I pled with those DUers who claim to have Hillary's ears to talk her out of subjecting herself to this again. I am no fan of hers. But I have no desire to see her hurt. And that was the only possible outcome I could see.

However, I would have to honestly counsel those same DUers that an Independant unity campaign with a respected Republican Vice Presidential running mate -- {sigh} yes, Romney, we're looking at you again -- might have a serious shot in the above scenario. I wouldn't like it. But it has serious potential.

I have this bad habit of telling the truth even when it hurts me. It's the analyst in me. I really like thinking things through.

[beltanefauve]

31. I read your post too quickly

and thought I saw the words, "Independent vanity campaign."

[SheilaT]

39. I disagree. There is no circumstance under which she'd run an independent campaign.

She would not be the mainstream candidate in that case. She'd be a third party candidate, and while she might get support from parts of the Democratic establishment, she would not get support from the Republican establishment. That's simply not how party politics works.

Likewise, the idea of a Republican as a VP selection has been bruited here and elsewhere many times, but that is also something that will never happen. Again, that's just not how party politics works. Any Republican willing to run with a Democrat or vice versa, would be so vilified by their own party as to make your head spin. It really does not have potential of any kind.

[tularetom]

2. There is no limit to the vindictiveness of the Clintons

Nothing they do would surprise me.

I would expect support for Jeb Bush if by some miracle he got nominated. Beyond that I don't know except it won't be pretty.

[earthside]

13. I don't think many will care, vindictive or not.

But, you know, I think her not endorsing Sanders would only relegate her to even more political irrelevance.

I think she could be very vindictive ... the "I deserve this nomination" attitude oozes out of every bit of her public presentation.

The times are passing her by; I think that is why her campaign is having increasing trouble.

She doesn't have any big ideas, no bold proposals.

If she loses the nomination and goes off pouting ... I suspect no one will care and Sanders will win and win big.

[tularetom]

17. What if Hillary has a snit and nobody cares?

I agree, if deprived of the nomination she believes is owed her, she will do something very nasty, which will just confirm the public's opinion of her. But it will have next to no impact on the political process.

[Gamecock Lefty]

3. I wonder if Bernie will?

[emulatorloo]

9. He has said many many times he won't run third party.

None of our candidates want a Republican in the White House.

[unapatriciated]

11. no need to wonder. He will and clinton will support him.

They both understand the importance of holding onto the White House.

[Armstead]

4. I don't think she would.

Whatever her faults, she is committed to beating the GOP.

[sufrommich]

6. Ridiculous tripe. nt

[HERVEPA]

7. Ridiculous. No she wouldn't. (I'm a Bernie guy)

[KingFlorez]

8. No

Sanders supporters would want her to do that, but it wouldn't happen.

[wendylaroux]

12. stop speaking for all Sanders supporters.

[jehop61]

10. I wonder

if Bernie will return to being an independent and refuse to support Hillary when he loses the nomination?

[wendylaroux]

15. Bernie will support Hill,he isn't an asshole.

[restorefreedom]

22. "when" is a bit presumptuous, esp now

but to address the question, if she wins fair and square, i think he will point out the differences between her and the rw wackos, as i believe she would for him.

if the dnc steals it by using the supers to take the nom from bernie, assuming he has the delegates, all bets are off.

[brooklynite]

14. Right...like she did in 2008.

[ieoeja]

36. Why not? With Sanders and Trump as the party nominees...?

A unity ticket of Clinton/Romney or Clinton/Rubio** would be the establishment candidacy. In addition to getting a lot of "grown up" support from both sides of the aisle, there is a horde of voters out there dying to elect the first female President.

That ticket in that three way might actually be the presumptive front-runner.

I was honest when I told you to try talking her out of her current campaign because I thought it would do nothing but hurt her. And to be honest now, I believe she might actually have a shot at winning with an Independant campaign if both parties nominate outsiders.



[font size=1]**Note: Clinton/Bush would be an automatic loser. Popular with late night comedians and political humorists, but an automatic loser.[/font]

[brooklynite]

37. An Independent campaign is still a hopeless cause...and she's smart enough to know that...

...Independent Presidential campaigns NEVER succeed. First, the candidate doesn't have enough time to organize a national campaign team and raise the funds needed, and second, the candidate doesn't have a national party infrastructure to help turn out votes.

[SheilaT]

40. In what alternate universe do you actually

envision either of those two pairings? Romney, so far as I can tell, is totally outside of Republican party politics at this point. Not exactly establishment. Rubio I can actually envision getting the Republican nomination this year if Trump implodes sufficiently, and Cruz's legitimacy as a natural born citizen is seriously challenged.

But despite all the fantasies so many here have had over the years about such nonsense, party politics is the bedrock of running for office. That's one of the reasons independents always do so poorly: they don't have a big machine supporting and aiding them.

[ieoeja]

42. I am pretty certain this universe is real, and not an alternate one.

You assume the parties would support Trump and Sanders. The party did *not* support McGovern. Much of the party establisment actively supported Nixon in the '72 election.

Look at Claire McCaskill. What do you think she is going to say when asked if she now supports Sanders since he got the Democratic nomination? She will probably say something along the lines of, "as far as I know Bernie is still a communist".

Allison Grimes would not admit having voted for Obama!

Bill Clinton's entire '92 campaign was spent disassociating himself from the party. He claimed that he, not Bush, would be the better at "reining in" the Democratic congress. And that strategy is now the Democratic campaign strategy in much of the country.

There is substantial evidence that the party establishment would disassociate themselves from Sanders should he get the nomination.

And Republicans are equally disturbed by the thought of a Trump nomination. Party apparatus from one or both parties could very well work for an Independant unity ticket. Or current Democratic party apparatus for a Clinton/Bayh Independant New Democrat ticket.

Hillary also has a billion dollars at her disposal. She is sitting in a much stronger position than any previous Third Party ticket in over a century.

[SheilaT]

46. So let the party infrastructure dissasociate themselves.

Bernie's support is wide and deep, and if the party goes too hands off, they'll discover they've lost all control.

But more to the point, Third Party candidacies invariably take votes from the candidate most like them, generally meaning the one from the same political party. If Hillary goes Third Way, the Republican will win. And I reiterate, no major Republican is going to join her in the VP spot. The Republicans would spit all over that effort. They would NOT join forces with establishment Democrats to support that ticket.

[kenfrequed]

16. No

Unlike Lieberman she wouldn't have any republican support. It would just be petty. This really isn't worth thinking about.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. No she will not.

I don't believe for a second that she would do so. She will support the Democratic nominee, period. As will Bernie Sanders. I suppose the degree of effort either puts into the Fall campaign should they not be the nominee is subject to a number of variables, with emotions being one of them. But I think anyone who believes that either Hilary or Bernie would actively oppose the Democratic nominee, either openly or covertly, does a disservice to them.

[FSogol]

19. We have a good example of what happened when she didn't get the nomination. She knuckled down,

supported the Democratic admin, and became Sec of State. What will Bernie do if he doesn't get the nomination?

[Bradical79]

20. No chance in hell

Can't think of a single reason she would. Republicans HATE her for reasons that go far beyond just being a Democrat. Even if she drastically changed her stances to aligning with what the Republicans are pushing, she'd be going from top dog to the most despised politician in America :-P

[BlueMTexpat]

21. Posts like this are something

I expect to see from Freepers, not from Democrats.

There have been too many such on this site lately, IMO.

[JoePhilly]

33. + 1

[Kalidurga]

25. Trash thread

[Orsino]

26. Signs say no. n/t

[JonLeibowitz]

27. Unrec.

[gwheezie]

28. Are you kidding me?

Why would you even suggest it? Hillary will campaign for Sanders if he is the nominee.
Otoh I do believe if Hillary wins, Bernie will go back to not being a democrat.

[Still In Wisconsin]

32. Why would Hillary campaign for Sanders?

She professes opposition to nearly everything he says.

[gwheezie]

34. She's a democrat

They aren't that far apart on issues, it seems to me its the approach they want to take.
Do you really think Hillary would join the GOP? The anti choice, war on women GOP?

[SheilaT]

41. And she expressed a lot of opposition to Obama's position

eight years ago.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. Nope!

She's not gonna do that.

[karynnj]

35. I absolutely disagree - neither she or Bill Clinton would endorse any of the Republicans

I suspect that they would actually after a few months letting anger die, support Bernie Sanders - maybe not energetically but enough to be seen as supportive. Their biggest concern will be what was the legacy of their very powerful leadership of the country.

Why? If - and I really do not see it happening - she loses, there really is no next time. If Sanders loses, it is better if they are seen as having helped, but the failure being the nominee's. Regardless, the Bill and Hillary Clinton strength will then be that they command the world's attention and they have a billion dollar foundation.

A NYT article after the SC primary last time had an unnamed insider saying that Bill Clinton was willing to do the things he did - potentially tarnishing his own reputation to help Clinton win because another 4 years or hopefully 8 would lead to a better legacy than he had after his presidency. If that was true then - and I always am skeptical of unnamed insiders, imagine now.

They have a legacy, but the foundation - like Carter's post Presidential work - can add to that legacy. Endorsing the Republican, refusing to support the Democrat or anything in between means the end of their story ends in anger and abandoning anything they ever stood for. They are not that stupid, that uncommitted to the political values they spoke of for a lifetime or that venial that they would do that.

[mythology]

38. This is stupid conspiracy nonsense

I mean why not go all out with it?

What if Sanders goes on to win the general election and right before he's sworn in, Clinton sneaks up from behind hits Sanders with a chair, and swearing herself in as President like would happen in wrestling?

[JI7]

43. more obsession .

[Warren DeMontague]

44. No. I believe she will put up a hell of a fight- she knows this is probably her last shot at it

and she REALLY REALLY wants it; but if she is decisively defeated she will do the right thing and support the nominee.

I do believe there is a subset of her supporters, though, whose meltdown will make fukushima look like a walk in the park. In that eventuality, look out, holy fuck are some people going to have a massive fucking breakdown.

[libdem4life]

45. I recall a group called PUMA back in 2008...anyone else remember that?

If she does not win this time, she is likely relegated to the Clinton Foundation...which is a good thing, in more ways than one. Oh, and being an abuela to two grandchildren. There are worse fates in life.