I'm getting the feeling that Hillary supporters live in a bubble and...

[Odin2005]

...don't get how much anger, hate, and rage the average American has towards the Establishment right now. There are only 2 people in this race right now speaking to this rage, Trump and Sanders. The rest are, like Hillary, poo-pooing it and telling us worthless peons that we have no right to be angry.

If it is Hillary versus Trump in the general election TRUMP WILL WIN because of that rage. Hillary is DESPISED by most people outside of the narrow political news junkie bubble. I know a lot of Low-information, a-political people who like both Sanders AND Trump and if Sanders is not the nominee and Trump is they WILL vote for Trump.

[Skwmom]

1. I think hate and rage is too strong of a word. Utter disgust, definitely. n/t

[farleftlib]

4. I had the same reaction

You can only hold your nose so many times before you say -- no more. Nothing to do with hate.

[hrmjustin]

2. I live in NY, not a bubble.

[Odin2005]

3. NY is a bubble, or at least NYC is.

[hrmjustin]

5. Have you been here?

[Odin2005]

8. No, but I have heard plenty of stuff about how insular...

...the big East Coast cities can be. This is why you get so many big city Dems so mystified about why people out here in "flyover country" roll our eyes when they start ranting about how evil guns are, for example.

[hrmjustin]

9. So you judge us by what you "heard".

Interesting.

[doc03]

14. They been listening to Ted Cruz n/t

[hrmjustin]

17. Lol yes.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

69. No.

[Ed Suspicious]

36. Have you ever met Bernie? You judge him freely and frequently without even knowing the man.

Interesting.

[hrmjustin]

40. No he hasn't come for tea time.

I have met Hillary several times and I have always been impressed.

[sulphurdunn]

76. Tea time?

Isn't that sweet, the pretentiousness not the tea.

[hrmjustin]

77. I try!

[sulphurdunn]

83. That is all one can do, really.

[mcar]

118. I love tea!

[Rose Siding]

82. That makes no sense. You don't judge Hillary?

Do you know her?

But you say "interesting" like your making a further judgement on someone else you don't know

[Bubzer]

123. Ed is using irony to point out hypocrisy...and doing a good job of it.

Your comment is a bit out of context in that respect.

[Skittles]

87. yup

sounds like teabagger logic

[still_one]

154. and some folks have the audacity to tell other folks that they live in a bubble, when by all

accounts, it is those that are throwing that bullshit out, that seem to be the ones living in a bubble

[Empowerer]

50. You've never been there but you "heard" the people there are in a bubble?

Wow . . .

[GP6971]

72. You need to schedule a trip to NYC

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the diversity.

[Odin2005]

78. I was speaking more of their reputation for thinking they are the center of the world...

...and the only place that matters. There is a famous New Yorker magazine cover illustrating the mindset.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. "Simply everyone who is anyone is here!"

Vermont? Hippies and hicks. Pshaw.

[hrmjustin]

23. And?

[Warren DeMontague]

38. No, no bubbles here.

[SheilaT]

73. I have been to NYC, and while I love it,

it *is* a bubble.

Far too many New Yorkers sincerely believe that there's no point in ever going anywhere else because after all, they have everything there.

Not true. You don't have the Grand Canyon. You don't have farmhouses miles from anywhere. You don't have the amazing regional theater that exists all over this country.

In short, NYC is a great place, but even the natives should go somewhere else once in a while.

[MrChuck]

86. I've been there.

NYC is a great city. It's a World City for sure but it's very much a bubble for a lot of people. Perhaps that's difficult to know from within the friendly confines.

I'm not running you down. I'm only pointing out the obvious.

[RoccoR5955]

109. Since NYC has been Disneyfied

it has become a new Disneyworld.
All the mom and pop stores that used to be in Manhattan are virtually gone. At least all of the ones that used to be around Times Square are gone. Nothing but big box stores, and lots of corporate advertising.
It has gotten unbearable.
It used to be a more neighborly place, but not any more.
Besides, you have to be rich to live anywhere in Manhattan any more. It didn't used to be like that.

[RoccoR5955]

106. I live in NY

MANY folks live in their own little bubble. They are a legend in their own minds!
Been born and raised here, but will be leaving in two years. I can't stand it any more!

[Cosmocat]

157. Do you people have any clue

how you sound and act like conservatives?

[Odin2005]

166. People here in Middle America being annoyed at Big City arrogance is "conservative", now?

[Cosmocat]

168. So, to be clear

you respond with a line that is STRAIGHT, word for word, what conservative talk radio shock jocks repeat 100 time a day as some kind of counter?

THIS is how far gone you people are.

[Odin2005]

169. Those shock jocks repeat it because there is a ring of truth to it.

It is why the GOP has been so effective out here.

[Cosmocat]

170. Its bullshit

Sorry, the sainted "middle america" is in a bubble, too.

This meme is what all conservative memes are, a way of trying to feel high and mighty and superior by demeaning others.

We all have our warts ...

[Odin2005]

171. Do you think the Populist Party 120 years ago was in a bubble?

[sulphurdunn]

74. In all big cities,

the rich live in bubbles and spend inordinate sums of money to convince those outside the bubble that it doesn't exist.

[hrmjustin]

80. Yes but most of NYC residents are not rich.

[sulphurdunn]

88. And they don't live in bubbles.

But, those who do hold a disturbing amount of power over the economic and political destiny of the country. I am of the opinion that such a situation is unhealthy.

[hrmjustin]

90. Ok but most of us are all working stiffs.

And many people who are rich live outside cities.

[sulphurdunn]

105. Wherever we live,

most of us are working stiffs, and the rich people don't live where we do. They live in bubbles. We don't. We can't afford it. They can. My problem is that we seem to have government of, by and for the rich. I don't really believe they have the interests or working stiffs at heart or ever did. So, I am on the side of the working class, because that's the side I'm on whether I like it or not. Therefore, I have issues voting for rich people but seldom have a choice. This time I have a choice.

[phylny]

85. This interests me.

Having lived in NYC and where we live now, in very Red, very rural Virginia, I'd have to disagree. My experience is that people who live here may never have been out of the state, or at least the tri-state area, let alone traveled to the Grand Canyon, Europe. or Asia, have never met people of different religions (Jews or Muslims), and are about the most close-minded people I've ever met. Talk about a bubble.

[sulphurdunn]

102. I was raised in a large west coast city.

For the past 20 years I have lived in very red, very rural, SW Virginia. There are some Jews and Muslims and a few racial minorities here, although most of the people are white protestants. Some of the wealthiest white people in the state live in mansions behind bubble protected walls in my town, and some of the poorest live in trailers with plywood windows in hollers. The percentage of close minded idiots and just plain bad people is no greater here than anywhere else I've ever lived, and I've lived in a lot of places.

[phylny]

111. I'm probably not far from you,

and I've lived in a lot of places, too. My point is, New York City's "bubble factor" is no worse than other places.

And, when we moved here, someone asked my daughter, "Have you ever met a Jewish person????"

[sulphurdunn]

116. The one thing diversity and big cities do

is destroy any illusions one might harbor about different groups of people actually being different in any meaningful way. My position is that anything which significantly isolates or insulates groups of people from each other within a community is bad.

[zentrum]

100. Funny, I live there too

…..and yet I understand completely what this poster is saying.

In fact, in NY, the elite is up close and personal. No doubt at all about its bubble characteristics.

[hrmjustin]

101. I live in a wofking class neighborhood so i don't run into elites much.

[zentrum]

121. And do you travel around

…..on public transportation much and get into other neighborhoods?

Seen gentrification in action? As in Harlem, The Lower East Side, The Upper West Side, Greenwich Village? Noticed how off-shore owned real estate is changing the whole character of the city and destroying established neighborhoods? Maybe you should get out more.

[hrmjustin]

122. I go to church in the village so I am very aware of what the rich have done there.

I am in Manhattan all the time so i know what is happening here.


Also hapoening in northern Brooklyn.

[zentrum]

172. Then I'm baffled

….by your denial of the bubble of the rich elite. They are changing the face of both those places, with complete indifference and even cruelty. Isn't that how one defines "bubble"? They don't see and don't care about people outside their group.

If you go to church in the Village then you must be aware of how passionately the locals are fighting to preserve their middle/working class life and how much the bubbly rich are coming in with new multi-million dollar condos, expensive restaurants and luxury item stores, as if the local people do not exist.

I was born and grew up in Manhattan and I know what all these posters are talking about when they talk about the NY bubble.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

108. True. It's so many bubbles it qualifies as foam.

[TransitJohn]

115. LOL!

That's the biggest bubble.

[KittyWampus]

6. Politicians who speak to "rage" are called ideologues. And yes, that's what Sanders is.

Sanders would be despised as soon as he won the nomination.

Only in your bubble does he have any favorability left after the rightwing attack machine starts in on him.

So I think you might want to reconsider your OP as a case of projection when you talk about 'bubbles'.

[hrmjustin]

7. Well said!

[Odin2005]

12. And Hillary WILL survive the "right-wing attack machine"?

[doc03]

19. Ya think a Socialist will n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Yes, because he will offer a clear moral and policy alternative,

[doc03]

25. He has about as much chance getting any of his pie

in the sky promises passed as I got hitting the lotto.

[Odin2005]

27. NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T!

[Warren DeMontague]

34. because obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues.

[John Poet]

81. Uplifting, isn't it?

[Warren DeMontague]

41. And what's Hillary going to get passed with the GOP congress? More money for the drug war?

That seems to be the only concrete "issue" she's interested in talking about, these days.

http://amp.twimg.com/v/bc5e37cb-dbc1-4345-8ab0-08ed45544042

[retrowire]

63. Pie in the sky you say?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511030951

Read that to find out why Bernie's Political Revolution is a lot more practical than people think.

[Android3.14]

107. I bought a couple of tickets in the last big go-'round

Sure, he may not deliver on all the promises, but I believe him when he says he will try. Sanders wants a chance to lead; Hillary just wants to be President.

[LondonReign2]

156. What is Hillary going to get Republicans to agree with her on?

[Odin2005]

26. Socialist is not a dirty word, anymore...

...outside of the people who would never vote Dem anyway.

[KittyWampus]

131. She has for decades

[redstateblues]

132. She already has for 2 decades

Still standing strong

[Lil Missy]

155. She already has - for at least 20 years.

She's even surviving the "left-wing attack machine" too.

[artislife]

30. Instead of being despised now like h. nt

[John Poet]

84. Hillary is despised NOW....

[Cosmocat]

158. 99% spot on

Bernie is OK.

I am voting for him.

The overwhelming majority of Bernie supporters here, not so much.

That said, you are spot on, the moment he were to become the presumptive nominee the right wing and its lapdog beltway media will turn on him like they turned on BHO, and the Bernie supporters here who gleefully espouse right wing slander on Hillary will scream how unfair it is.

[restorefreedom]

10. everyone i know is for bernie or trump

lefties are for bernie, righties are for trump. indys are going to both. i have one acquaintance who is a hillary supporter. i am sure my informal survey is repeated all around the country.

people are fed up.

sanders v trump 2016
get your popcorn now!

[Odin2005]

18. This is going to be the biggest election for a long time.

[restorefreedom]

28. definitely. popcorn makers, take notice! nt

[Karma13612]

71. Presto Hot Air popper is on standby!

Spray on EVOO, sprinkle on the sea salt, and a glass of white wine to round out the party.

I am set for tomorrrow night's town hall!!

Bernie is going to kick some major @$$.

[restorefreedom]

126. yum....and go bernie! nt

[murielm99]

103. Every one you know?

You are the one living in a bubble. Bernie has less support than you realize.

Projection, much?

[restorefreedom]

127. hillary has a LOT less support

than her fans here want to acknowledge imo.

i know conservatives who like bernie.

but only the votes will tell us for sure

ps and i did not say everyone i know is for bernie...i said they are for bernie or trump. the antiestablishment vibe is very strong. and i am not in a bubble, just a typical middle class town.

[riversedge]

11. You are pretty self-rightous.........Making up likes about Hillary and her supporters. Shame on you

...The rest are, like Hillary, poo-pooing it and telling us worthless peons that we have no right to be angry.

[Odin2005]

13. The only liar here is Hillary.

[Aerows]

47. You got alerted.

On Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The only liar here is Hillary.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1060005

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

If we can't call Bernie a liar then we can't cal lHillary a liar.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:17 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: To paraphrase the late Don Ho - So here's to the golden moon And here's to the silver sea And mostly here's a toast To the end of silly infighting between you and me.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I can't hide a post that's true.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to grow up and get a thicker skin. No ToS violation.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: As far as I know, it is OK to call Bernie a liar
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Odin2005]

52. Wow, some people have thin skins!

[hobbit709]

56. I guess alerter doesn't know that Hillary IS a liar.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. True, that.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. It's hard to see the "little, insignificant" flyover people from midtown manhattan, dahh-ling.

[Odin2005]

22. Somebody tell that to hrmjustin!

They're shitting on me for saying NYC is a bubble.

[hrmjustin]

31. Maybe you live in a bubble and NYC is more than Manhattan.

[Health Wagon]

60. America is not NYC. NYC is not America

[hrmjustin]

62. What are we then?

[Health Wagon]

66. That's your problem right there.

America has about 300M more people than just New York City.,

If you don't get that, then I feel sorry for you and your eventual loss.

[hrmjustin]

67. We don't claim to be all that is America.

[Skittles]

89. NYC is not America?

so, what, only rural folk are American?

[Health Wagon]

96. No no, I'm saying NYC is not just America.

[Skittles]

124. I don't think ANYONE said that

[taught_me_patience]

16. could not be any more wrong

It's Bernie'S reliance on anger that will do him in. Angerr will only get you so far. Americans want an uplifting message, and not constant negativity.

[Odin2005]

24. This sounds a lot like "OMG, we can't talk about class warfare, it's divisive!!!"

[Fumesucker]

32. Something uplifting like this perhaps?

[grasswire]

55. NO WE CAN'T

Does that sound uplifting to you?

[mythology]

29. I'm sure you don't see that the exact same argument can be made about Sanders supporters right?

Any union that endorses Sanders is immediately decried. Minority voters just aren't informed enough about who Sanders is. Internet surveys are statistically valid. "Everybody I know is for Sanders" so scientific polling must be wrong.

People often live in bubbles that reinforce what we want to believe. I've been guilty of it. But the thing about living in a bubble is that while it's easy to see if other people are, it's often difficult to see if you are in the moment.

[Odin2005]

33. The only people I know who like Hillary are...

...older middle class women who like her because "it is time for a woman to be president", the issues are irrelevant to them.

[babylonsister]

42. Baloney. That's apathy and ignorance.

If someone isn't informed, maybe that's where they go.

[Recursion]

65. Ah, the Pauline Kael effect (nt)

[SheilaT]

75. This older middle class woman does not like Hillary.

I do hope to see a woman President in my lifetime. Just not Hillary.

[phylny]

93. This older, upper-middle-class woman supports

Bernie, but will vote for Hillary or the eventual Democratic nominee, and thinks all this infighting is ridiculous.

[Beacool]

130. Condescending B.S.

[Odin2005]

137. The truth hurts.

[Thinkingabout]

35. The hate towards the "establishment" is not by Hillary or her supporters.

Maybe this question should be ask of Sanders, he has been talking about the "establishment". No, Hillary supporters are not living in a bubble, we are in wide open spaces, join us, it is really nice in wide open spaces.

[Kalidurga]

37. We are all in bubbles

The difference is some people get out and talk to other people about their bubbles. I don't think Hillary really does that. She seems uncomfortable talking to people outside of her circle. She was practically livid with BLM when she talked to them. She told one kid that free college isn't something we can pay for for everyone. She tells the worst jokes ever. If you don't believe me ask Gandhi, he probably wouldn't hold it against her though.

I myself could be very isolated in my world. But, I talk to people when I got out particularly when I go to downtown Minneapolis and when I visit the UofM.

[OrwellwasRight]

39. There is some truth in what you say.

I see and hear this too in my world outside the "conventional wisdom" bubble.

[handmade34]

43. I live in Vermont

not a bubble...

I am supporting Hillary (but Love Bernie as well)

Hillary supporters do not live in a bubble

this nonsense of trashing each other really should stop... you've got your reason, Hillary supporters have theirs and it is not because they don't understand the issues, or peoples' rage, or...

I don't have to hate one to support the other... the goal here is to get as many Democrats elected as possible this fall

[phylny]

94. Exactly! n/t

[Cosmocat]

159. I am voting Bernie

and I can't stand the Bernie supporters here ...

[Hoyt]

44. I'm feeling another McGovern/Dukakis landslide if Sanders' supporters prevail. n/t

[Odin2005]

46. It is not 1972.

McGovern lost because the socially conservative blue collar people hated the "dirty stinking hippies". Those people are all Republicans now and will never vote for a Democrat. They hate Hillary with a passion.

[Hoyt]

51. It's 2016 and not much has changed. Your post does not support your argument.

Those Republicans and a lot of Independents will never vote for Sanders.

[Odin2005]

54. The independents I know like Sanders more than they like Hillary.

This notion that "independent" = "centrist" is a myth.

[John Poet]

91. I'm feeling a Mondale disaster if Hillary is nominated...

Except Mondale was never indicted for anything,
and his spouse didn't have a bad habit
of mounting anything that was warm.

[Hoyt]

112. Do you judge people by their spouse, and what has Clinton been indicated for?

[riversedge]

125. I would expect to hear a RW or Fox says things like that--not a DU member. Shameful

[John Poet]

139. I would expect to hear "Fox says" when Hillary talks

about her foreign policy...

[redstateblues]

133. Count on it

[840high]

45. You desribed my whole

family - some love Trump, some love Sanders. Nobody plans on voting for Clinton.

American people want change desperately.

[sadoldgirl]

48. What I find interesting is the difference

in their explanations of their policies:

Bernie tries to explain them in rather clear and
simple terms.

HRC starts out, but then more often than not tells
us to google her proposes on her website.

Maybe she intends voters to visit her site, but
I find it a bit of a put off, generally speaking.

[mhatrw]

49. The establishment doesn't get it because they imagine themselves so lovable. nt

[nolabels]

64. They is Lovable don't cha'know, they try tell us everyday, read about it in their top dollar outlets

One should always observe carefully when the trumpeter blows his own horn

[MisterP]

79. they see themselves as our bosses and representatives--of ALL the people, from commoner randos

to Wall Street

[MrWendel]

53. Hello?

Kettle? Yeah! This is pot!

[Skwmom]

57. Supporters of Sanders are not low information. Why do you think they are so disgusted? n/t

[Odin2005]

58. You misread what I posted.

I said:

I know a lot of Low-information, a-political people who like both Sanders AND Trump and if Sanders is not the nominee and Trump is they WILL vote for Trump.

I'm not talking about clear Sanders supporters, I'm taking about people who don't follow politics and like anyone on either the left or right that says "fuck you" to the status quo.

[Skwmom]

148. You are right. I did. Sorry about that. n/t

[Renew Deal]

59. Will you vote for Trump?

[Odin2005]

61. Fuck no, of course not!

But there are a lot of angry people willing to vote for anyone channeling that anger, we have to make sure it is somebody good, like Bernie, rather than a monster, like Trump.

[gordyfl]

68. The System IS Rigged

I heard for the second time Hillary said that we can't have people "believing" the system is rigged. It's bad for a democracy, she says. As opposed to Bernie "The system IS rigged".

Bernie tells it like it is.

[Tarc]

92. Glad to see that you identify your candidate with Trump

All the more reason why I shall vote for Hillary next month.

[Odin2005]

95. Thanks for showing that you don't get it.

People are angry, bashing and insulting them will just make them more angry.

[Tarc]

97. Being angry isn't a quality that I look for in a president

Stamping one's feet and crying how BAD! BAD! BAD! everything is without offering realistic alternatives is what fringe candidates do.

But again, thanks for placing your candidate alongside Trump, the comparison is illuminating.

[fbc]

98. A bubble of money most likely.

[Odin2005]

99. The strongest bubble there is.

[Proserpina]

104. It's more like a dank, dark cave than a bubble

A miserable, short troglodyte existence followed by a painful death and a corpse chewed by feral dogs. It suits them, though. They refuse to aspire to anything better.

[RoccoR5955]

110. Damn right they do.

Many are only concerned to get a female as president. They don't care if she's a corporatist or not, they just buy her lies, and want her to win. Many are hold backs who wanted her in 2008.
They fail to realize that in the general election, she will lose, because of the hate that is on the Right for the Clintons. Even some on the Left don't like her.
They are gonna have to wake up.

[Odin2005]

135. "Many are only concerned to get a female as president." Exactly!

It's a good example of Bourgeois (to put on my Marxist hat) Faux-Feminism.

[RBInMaine]

113. Hillary would THUMP TRUMP. You are saying things that are FLAWED on so many levels.

I am a Hillary supporter, and I don't "live in a bubble." That, frankly, is a very NUMB thing to say. NUMB to reality. NUMB to thought. NUMB to reason. We of course "get" that people are upset and frustrated about income inequality, etc. But we also look at a big picture. Hillary has plans to reduce income inequality, grow the economy, etc. Who is READY to lead at home and in the world? Trump? Hillary would THUMP TRUMP because he has alienated huge segments of the voting public and is UNQUALIFIED for the job. Give EVERYONE more credit. In fact, Bernie has said he would back Hillary if she wins the nomination. Does that mean his is also in a bubble?

[SoapBox]

114. I do not think that the word "hate" is too strong...

That would be my single/divorced/widowed neighborhood ladies...they HATE her when I bring up politics...same for multiple female co-workers.

If...and i'l only saying if...she was in the general...she will lose to any crazy that is the finalist against her.

[jwirr]

117. It is not just her supporters. The Ironworkers here in MN

are supporting her. They are in another kind of bubble.

They are setting in MN a state that has pretty well held their own because MN has a Democratic governor, House and Senate as well as many local officials that have held the line as much as they can.

They are doing fine. Work with good wages etc. One of them talked about it not being very bad in the country because at Christmas everyone was out shopping and they were all buying something.

So they ignore Bernie. They ignore those of us were not out there shopping and who do not have good wages. They even ignore the situation of their own kids.

But the world does not end at the MN border. And they cannot continue to ignore the anger and the problems of the rest of the country. Because the state of the whole country is what is causing a lot of our problems.

There are two kinds of bubbles: the hillary bubble and the I'm doing just fine bubble.

[Odin2005]

147. As a Minnesotan that is really disappointing.

[jwirr]

162. Yes, for me also. Friends said that you have to be at the

meeting to count and if you do not go then the labor bosses are the ones who decide.

On the other hand my point was that it is very easy to set in a state that is still doing pretty good and think there are no problems.

[Jack Rabbit]

119. I disagree that Trump could beat Hillary

I, for one, feel that having to choose between those two is like being asked if I'd rather be shot or hanged. Well, maybe that isn't quite right. It might be more like a choice between be shot or hanged (Hillary) or boiled in oil (Trump or Cruz).

However, I do agree that the Democratic establishment is telling me that I have no right to complain, and that there exists a long position paper form Jon Cowan, founder of the Republican Lite think tank, Third Way, which claims that there's no evidence that I or other Sandernistas are complaining at all. That kind of garbage was old when the DLC was promoting Blair Democrats in 2003 (here is a critique of the piece written after the British elections of 2005).

I was also told I had no right to complain when President Obama didn't put the kabash on Bush's infringement of the Fourth Amendment. I resented that establishment-knows-best smugness from the Obama ha sempre regione crowd, too.

Well, I voted for Obama twice. The second time I will admit that had to hold my nose, but the first time I really thought we were coming to end to all things Reagan, Bush and Bush. All that Republican crap that the DLC thought was so great that the Democrats should just wave a big white flag and join it. Like Bill Clinton did. He was one of the best Republican presidents ever.

When I joined the army in order to sit our a recession, the year was 1976 and Gerald Ford was President. I was one of six college graduates in my basic training company. Those were tough times. When I got out Jimmy Carter was President and things really weren't much better. How bad was Carter? To too many people, he made a second rate matinee idol look like a good alternative. I held my nose and voted for Carter. I think I did the right thing. While I've never been a Carter revisionist, Reagan's supply-side economics ushered in the era bubble-to-bubble booms and busts, where America enjoyed an illusion of prosperity within one bubble or another until each one burst. I have never in my adult life known a truly stable, robust American economy, like the economy after World War II that my parents enjoyed. During that entire period that I worked for a living, the rich got richer and richer, the middle class got smaller and smaller, and the Democratic Party establishment became as corrupt as the Republicans have been since the Gilded Age.

Well, establishmentarians, after 35 years of that shit, it's payback time. And you know what they say about payback. If you don't, ask King Louis and Queen Marie Antoinette about it. Yes, I'm angry.

[Lil Missy]

120. oh my god! The hate, and rage and anger over Hillary Clinton is very apparent here on du.

[Dawson Leery]

128. The far right and far left EQUALLY live in their respective bubbles.

[Odin2005]

136. Bernie would be considered a centrist in Europe.

There is no substantial "far left" in the US.

The "political spectrum" in the US is claustrophobically narrow on economic issues.

[Lil Missy]

138. exactly! and both ends are equally destructive.

[Fumesucker]

140. A drowning person will drag you down with them, not deliberately but out of desperation

You are apparently unaware of the desperation many Americans are feeling as they drown economically with prices that rise continually and wages that have been stagnant for fifteen years while more and more of the productivity gains we have sweated blood to achieve go to those who merely have a lot of money already.

[Lil Missy]

141. and none of that is in conflict with Hillary Clinton's goals for the nation.

[Fumesucker]

145. Hillary's idea of "dead broke" and actual dead broke are two entirely different things

She hasn't even driven a car in this millennium, she is totally insulated from the concerns of everyday Americans (a term she quickly dropped when it flopped).

Hillary is replaying her 2008 campaign against Obama almost word for word...

[Lil Missy]

149. You make mountains out of molehills.

Take it in context - They are multi-millionaires. It probably did feel like they were dead broke at the time. It's all relative. And I have no prejudice against the rich, nor do I blame them for my being poor.

[Fumesucker]

151. It's not all relative

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.

[Beacool]

129. I think that Sanders' supporters are the ones living in a bubble.

I'm looking past IA and NH. They've been hyped enough. Let's see where we stand after Super Tuesday. That will give everybody a better measure of where this primary election is really going.

Only time will tell whose assessment is correct.

[Dawson Leery]

134. +1

[raouldukelives]

142. I get the feeling they shuttle from climate controlled buildings

to climate controlled cars to climate controlled airplanes to climate controlled Wall St luncheons.

All the while destroying the climate for the rest of the world.

Those who live in steel forests will never see what those of us on the ground in the real world do. The suffering of the wildlife, the dying of the trees, the end of our Edens. All in the continued name of more for the most and less for the least.

Only one candidate is a threat to them. It is why Bloomberg is so agitated. Wall St must be protected from responsibility like an affluenza teen at all costs. Even Trump is preferable to them.

[Cosmocat]

143. Those in glass houses ...

I have never seen the supporters of a candidate work so hard to alienate others from their candidate.

What I read here with Bernie supporters is what I have dealt with Conservatives the last three decades.

Bullying, demeaning, while making themselves out to be victims.

Despite your efforts, I will vote Bernie ...

[Beaverhausen]

152. Well said

[Vinca]

144. I think if Hillary is the nominee the only way she wins is with Republican votes.

She hasn't excited Democrats enough to bring out a sufficient number of voters to win. She will have to count on sem-sane GOP voters to decide they can't pull the lever for Trump. On the other side, Trump has the crazies in a frenzy and they'll walk over the edge of the flat earth for him. If it's Hillary and Trump, I can imagine Trump winning. Very scary.

[Skwmom]

146. I think DC is the bubble. n/t

[MineralMan]

150. There are many bubbles people live in.

All of them seem to protect them from outside forces. There's no protection, though, and bubbles do burst.

[Thenewire]

153. You got it all wrong

Sanders and Trump are extremist candidates. This anger and hatred you describe is akin to right wing extremism that relies on mudslinging rather than facts so I ask you to reconsider your party affiliation. Sanders is an extremist candidate just like Trump and him and his followers have absolutely no problem in throwing the underprivileged and minorities under the bus to make an unrealistic point. The extreme has no viable way of winning, I assure you that Trump will eventually appear more moderate against crazy old Sanders to the general electorate and win. So in the end you have Clinton who may or may not have a chance but at the very least if she loses you might make the argument that she wasn't a liberal so that in the future we might have a candidate that is younger, less egotistical and more liberal than Sanders.

[Odin2005]

167. "Sanders is an extremist candidate" Are you fucking serious???

What you are calling "extreme" has been the MAINSTREAM in Europe since the 50s.

[ecstatic]

160. Trump and Sanders... I agree that some of their supporters

have a lot in common.

But a few Sanders' supporters have made me more open minded regarding what could be. If Bernie somehow wins, I'd try my best to make the "revolution" happen. I just think Trump would destroy him in the GE. The grumpy/crazy old man memes would be endless.

[mikehiggins]

161. I lived in and around NYC for 65 years

It is a wonderful place with wonderful people. Also a lot of scumbags.

Now I live in Santa Fe. A wonderful place with wonderful people. Not a lot of scumbags at all.

Got texted from someone helping set up the Sanders campaign here in New Mexico. Only thing I've heard from HRC is a request for $1 donation, presumably to offset the average amount of donations.

Back to NYC, yes, it is the home of lots of bubbles and, yes, Nu Yawkers think they are the center of the world. Probably are.

Problem is that the City (and most people know what you mean when you say "the City&quot is hardly the most human city on earth. It is hard, cold and expensive for most, El Dorado for a handful.

It will probably go for HRC though the rest of NYS is less certain.

[Orsino]

163. We really don't need any more inflammatory broad-brushing...

...of either side's supporters. Not constructive. At all.

[MadDAsHell]

164. It's interesting: the PC-obsessed crowd absolutely created Trump, and the 1% absolutely...

created Sanders. One of these sides is going to regret it.

[Warren Stupidity]

165. Who advised her that "Nope and No Change"

was a viable meme for her campaign?