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Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:38 PM Jan 2016

I'm getting the feeling that Hillary supporters live in a bubble and...

...don't get how much anger, hate, and rage the average American has towards the Establishment right now. There are only 2 people in this race right now speaking to this rage, Trump and Sanders. The rest are, like Hillary, poo-pooing it and telling us worthless peons that we have no right to be angry.

If it is Hillary versus Trump in the general election TRUMP WILL WIN because of that rage. Hillary is DESPISED by most people outside of the narrow political news junkie bubble. I know a lot of Low-information, a-political people who like both Sanders AND Trump and if Sanders is not the nominee and Trump is they WILL vote for Trump.

172 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm getting the feeling that Hillary supporters live in a bubble and... (Original Post) Odin2005 Jan 2016 OP
I think hate and rage is too strong of a word. Utter disgust, definitely. n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #1
I had the same reaction farleftlib Jan 2016 #4
I live in NY, not a bubble. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #2
NY is a bubble, or at least NYC is. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #3
Have you been here? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #5
No, but I have heard plenty of stuff about how insular... Odin2005 Jan 2016 #8
So you judge us by what you "heard". hrmjustin Jan 2016 #9
They been listening to Ted Cruz n/t doc03 Jan 2016 #14
Lol yes. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #17
No. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2016 #69
Have you ever met Bernie? You judge him freely and frequently without even knowing the man. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #36
No he hasn't come for tea time. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #40
Tea time? sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #76
I try! hrmjustin Jan 2016 #77
That is all one can do, really. sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #83
I love tea! mcar Jan 2016 #118
That makes no sense. You don't judge Hillary? Rose Siding Jan 2016 #82
Ed is using irony to point out hypocrisy...and doing a good job of it. Bubzer Jan 2016 #123
yup Skittles Jan 2016 #87
and some folks have the audacity to tell other folks that they live in a bubble, when by all still_one Jan 2016 #154
You've never been there but you "heard" the people there are in a bubble? Empowerer Jan 2016 #50
You need to schedule a trip to NYC GP6971 Jan 2016 #72
I was speaking more of their reputation for thinking they are the center of the world... Odin2005 Jan 2016 #78
"Simply everyone who is anyone is here!" Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #20
And? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #23
No, no bubbles here. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #38
I have been to NYC, and while I love it, SheilaT Jan 2016 #73
I've been there. MrChuck Jan 2016 #86
Since NYC has been Disneyfied RoccoR5955 Jan 2016 #109
I live in NY RoccoR5955 Jan 2016 #106
Do you people have any clue Cosmocat Jan 2016 #157
People here in Middle America being annoyed at Big City arrogance is "conservative", now? Odin2005 Jan 2016 #166
So, to be clear Cosmocat Jan 2016 #168
Those shock jocks repeat it because there is a ring of truth to it. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #169
Its bullshit Cosmocat Jan 2016 #170
Do you think the Populist Party 120 years ago was in a bubble? Odin2005 Jan 2016 #171
In all big cities, sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #74
Yes but most of NYC residents are not rich. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #80
And they don't live in bubbles. sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #88
Ok but most of us are all working stiffs. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #90
Wherever we live, sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #105
This interests me. phylny Jan 2016 #85
I was raised in a large west coast city. sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #102
I'm probably not far from you, phylny Jan 2016 #111
The one thing diversity and big cities do sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #116
Funny, I live there too zentrum Jan 2016 #100
I live in a wofking class neighborhood so i don't run into elites much. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #101
And do you travel around zentrum Jan 2016 #121
I go to church in the village so I am very aware of what the rich have done there. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #122
Then I'm baffled zentrum Jan 2016 #172
True. It's so many bubbles it qualifies as foam. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #108
LOL! TransitJohn Jan 2016 #115
Politicians who speak to "rage" are called ideologues. And yes, that's what Sanders is. KittyWampus Jan 2016 #6
Well said! hrmjustin Jan 2016 #7
And Hillary WILL survive the "right-wing attack machine"? Odin2005 Jan 2016 #12
Ya think a Socialist will n/t doc03 Jan 2016 #19
Yes, because he will offer a clear moral and policy alternative, Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #21
He has about as much chance getting any of his pie doc03 Jan 2016 #25
NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #27
because obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #34
Uplifting, isn't it? John Poet Jan 2016 #81
And what's Hillary going to get passed with the GOP congress? More money for the drug war? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #41
Pie in the sky you say? retrowire Jan 2016 #63
I bought a couple of tickets in the last big go-'round Android3.14 Jan 2016 #107
What is Hillary going to get Republicans to agree with her on? LondonReign2 Jan 2016 #156
Socialist is not a dirty word, anymore... Odin2005 Jan 2016 #26
She has for decades KittyWampus Jan 2016 #131
She already has for 2 decades redstateblues Jan 2016 #132
She already has - for at least 20 years. Lil Missy Jan 2016 #155
Instead of being despised now like h. nt artislife Jan 2016 #30
Hillary is despised NOW.... John Poet Jan 2016 #84
99% spot on Cosmocat Jan 2016 #158
everyone i know is for bernie or trump restorefreedom Jan 2016 #10
This is going to be the biggest election for a long time. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #18
definitely. popcorn makers, take notice! nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #28
Presto Hot Air popper is on standby! Karma13612 Jan 2016 #71
yum....and go bernie! nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #126
Every one you know? murielm99 Jan 2016 #103
hillary has a LOT less support restorefreedom Jan 2016 #127
You are pretty self-rightous.........Making up likes about Hillary and her supporters. Shame on you riversedge Jan 2016 #11
The only liar here is Hillary. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #13
You got alerted. Aerows Jan 2016 #47
Wow, some people have thin skins! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #52
I guess alerter doesn't know that Hillary IS a liar. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #56
True, that. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2016 #70
It's hard to see the "little, insignificant" flyover people from midtown manhattan, dahh-ling. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #15
Somebody tell that to hrmjustin! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #22
Maybe you live in a bubble and NYC is more than Manhattan. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #31
America is not NYC. NYC is not America Health Wagon Jan 2016 #60
What are we then? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #62
That's your problem right there. Health Wagon Jan 2016 #66
We don't claim to be all that is America. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #67
NYC is not America? Skittles Jan 2016 #89
No no, I'm saying NYC is not just America. Health Wagon Jan 2016 #96
I don't think ANYONE said that Skittles Jan 2016 #124
could not be any more wrong taught_me_patience Jan 2016 #16
This sounds a lot like "OMG, we can't talk about class warfare, it's divisive!!!" Odin2005 Jan 2016 #24
Something uplifting like this perhaps? Fumesucker Jan 2016 #32
NO WE CAN'T grasswire Jan 2016 #55
I'm sure you don't see that the exact same argument can be made about Sanders supporters right? mythology Jan 2016 #29
The only people I know who like Hillary are... Odin2005 Jan 2016 #33
Baloney. That's apathy and ignorance. babylonsister Jan 2016 #42
Ah, the Pauline Kael effect (nt) Recursion Jan 2016 #65
This older middle class woman does not like Hillary. SheilaT Jan 2016 #75
This older, upper-middle-class woman supports phylny Jan 2016 #93
Condescending B.S. Beacool Jan 2016 #130
The truth hurts. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #137
The hate towards the "establishment" is not by Hillary or her supporters. Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #35
We are all in bubbles Kalidurga Jan 2016 #37
There is some truth in what you say. OrwellwasRight Jan 2016 #39
I live in Vermont handmade34 Jan 2016 #43
Exactly! n/t phylny Jan 2016 #94
I am voting Bernie Cosmocat Jan 2016 #159
I'm feeling another McGovern/Dukakis landslide if Sanders' supporters prevail. n/t Hoyt Jan 2016 #44
It is not 1972. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #46
It's 2016 and not much has changed. Your post does not support your argument. Hoyt Jan 2016 #51
The independents I know like Sanders more than they like Hillary. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #54
I'm feeling a Mondale disaster if Hillary is nominated... John Poet Jan 2016 #91
Do you judge people by their spouse, and what has Clinton been indicated for? Hoyt Jan 2016 #112
I would expect to hear a RW or Fox says things like that--not a DU member. Shameful riversedge Jan 2016 #125
I would expect to hear "Fox says" when Hillary talks John Poet Jan 2016 #139
Count on it redstateblues Jan 2016 #133
You desribed my whole 840high Jan 2016 #45
What I find interesting is the difference sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #48
The establishment doesn't get it because they imagine themselves so lovable. nt mhatrw Jan 2016 #49
They is Lovable don't cha'know, they try tell us everyday, read about it in their top dollar outlets nolabels Jan 2016 #64
they see themselves as our bosses and representatives--of ALL the people, from commoner randos MisterP Jan 2016 #79
Hello? MrWendel Jan 2016 #53
Supporters of Sanders are not low information. Why do you think they are so disgusted? n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #57
You misread what I posted. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #58
You are right. I did. Sorry about that. n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #148
Will you vote for Trump? Renew Deal Jan 2016 #59
Fuck no, of course not! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #61
The System IS Rigged gordyfl Jan 2016 #68
Glad to see that you identify your candidate with Trump Tarc Jan 2016 #92
Thanks for showing that you don't get it. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #95
Being angry isn't a quality that I look for in a president Tarc Jan 2016 #97
A bubble of money most likely. fbc Jan 2016 #98
The strongest bubble there is. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #99
It's more like a dank, dark cave than a bubble Proserpina Jan 2016 #104
Damn right they do. RoccoR5955 Jan 2016 #110
"Many are only concerned to get a female as president." Exactly! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #135
Hillary would THUMP TRUMP. You are saying things that are FLAWED on so many levels. RBInMaine Jan 2016 #113
I do not think that the word "hate" is too strong... SoapBox Jan 2016 #114
It is not just her supporters. The Ironworkers here in MN jwirr Jan 2016 #117
As a Minnesotan that is really disappointing. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #147
Yes, for me also. Friends said that you have to be at the jwirr Jan 2016 #162
I disagree that Trump could beat Hillary Jack Rabbit Jan 2016 #119
oh my god! The hate, and rage and anger over Hillary Clinton is very apparent here on du. Lil Missy Jan 2016 #120
The far right and far left EQUALLY live in their respective bubbles. Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #128
Bernie would be considered a centrist in Europe. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #136
exactly! and both ends are equally destructive. Lil Missy Jan 2016 #138
A drowning person will drag you down with them, not deliberately but out of desperation Fumesucker Jan 2016 #140
and none of that is in conflict with Hillary Clinton's goals for the nation. Lil Missy Jan 2016 #141
Hillary's idea of "dead broke" and actual dead broke are two entirely different things Fumesucker Jan 2016 #145
You make mountains out of molehills. Lil Missy Jan 2016 #149
It's not all relative Fumesucker Jan 2016 #151
I think that Sanders' supporters are the ones living in a bubble. Beacool Jan 2016 #129
+1 Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #134
I get the feeling they shuttle from climate controlled buildings raouldukelives Jan 2016 #142
Those in glass houses ... Cosmocat Jan 2016 #143
Well said Beaverhausen Jan 2016 #152
I think if Hillary is the nominee the only way she wins is with Republican votes. Vinca Jan 2016 #144
I think DC is the bubble. n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #146
There are many bubbles people live in. MineralMan Jan 2016 #150
You got it all wrong Thenewire Jan 2016 #153
"Sanders is an extremist candidate" Are you fucking serious??? Odin2005 Jan 2016 #167
Trump and Sanders... I agree that some of their supporters ecstatic Jan 2016 #160
I lived in and around NYC for 65 years mikehiggins Jan 2016 #161
We really don't need any more inflammatory broad-brushing... Orsino Jan 2016 #163
It's interesting: the PC-obsessed crowd absolutely created Trump, and the 1% absolutely... MadDAsHell Jan 2016 #164
Who advised her that "Nope and No Change" Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #165
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
4. I had the same reaction
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:43 PM
Jan 2016

You can only hold your nose so many times before you say -- no more. Nothing to do with hate.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
8. No, but I have heard plenty of stuff about how insular...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:47 PM
Jan 2016

...the big East Coast cities can be. This is why you get so many big city Dems so mystified about why people out here in "flyover country" roll our eyes when they start ranting about how evil guns are, for example.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
36. Have you ever met Bernie? You judge him freely and frequently without even knowing the man.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:01 PM
Jan 2016

Interesting.

Rose Siding

(32,623 posts)
82. That makes no sense. You don't judge Hillary?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:16 PM
Jan 2016

Do you know her?

But you say "interesting" like your making a further judgement on someone else you don't know

Bubzer

(4,211 posts)
123. Ed is using irony to point out hypocrisy...and doing a good job of it.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:43 PM
Jan 2016

Your comment is a bit out of context in that respect.

still_one

(93,935 posts)
154. and some folks have the audacity to tell other folks that they live in a bubble, when by all
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jan 2016

accounts, it is those that are throwing that bullshit out, that seem to be the ones living in a bubble

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
78. I was speaking more of their reputation for thinking they are the center of the world...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:14 PM
Jan 2016

...and the only place that matters. There is a famous New Yorker magazine cover illustrating the mindset.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
73. I have been to NYC, and while I love it,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:06 PM
Jan 2016

it *is* a bubble.

Far too many New Yorkers sincerely believe that there's no point in ever going anywhere else because after all, they have everything there.

Not true. You don't have the Grand Canyon. You don't have farmhouses miles from anywhere. You don't have the amazing regional theater that exists all over this country.

In short, NYC is a great place, but even the natives should go somewhere else once in a while.

MrChuck

(279 posts)
86. I've been there.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:18 PM
Jan 2016

NYC is a great city. It's a World City for sure but it's very much a bubble for a lot of people. Perhaps that's difficult to know from within the friendly confines.

I'm not running you down. I'm only pointing out the obvious.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
109. Since NYC has been Disneyfied
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:51 PM
Jan 2016

it has become a new Disneyworld.
All the mom and pop stores that used to be in Manhattan are virtually gone. At least all of the ones that used to be around Times Square are gone. Nothing but big box stores, and lots of corporate advertising.
It has gotten unbearable.
It used to be a more neighborly place, but not any more.
Besides, you have to be rich to live anywhere in Manhattan any more. It didn't used to be like that.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
106. I live in NY
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:48 PM
Jan 2016

MANY folks live in their own little bubble. They are a legend in their own minds!
Been born and raised here, but will be leaving in two years. I can't stand it any more!

Cosmocat

(14,672 posts)
168. So, to be clear
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:02 PM
Jan 2016

you respond with a line that is STRAIGHT, word for word, what conservative talk radio shock jocks repeat 100 time a day as some kind of counter?

THIS is how far gone you people are.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
169. Those shock jocks repeat it because there is a ring of truth to it.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:06 PM
Jan 2016

It is why the GOP has been so effective out here.

Cosmocat

(14,672 posts)
170. Its bullshit
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:19 PM
Jan 2016

Sorry, the sainted "middle america" is in a bubble, too.

This meme is what all conservative memes are, a way of trying to feel high and mighty and superior by demeaning others.

We all have our warts ...

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
74. In all big cities,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:09 PM
Jan 2016

the rich live in bubbles and spend inordinate sums of money to convince those outside the bubble that it doesn't exist.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
88. And they don't live in bubbles.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:21 PM
Jan 2016

But, those who do hold a disturbing amount of power over the economic and political destiny of the country. I am of the opinion that such a situation is unhealthy.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
105. Wherever we live,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:46 PM
Jan 2016

most of us are working stiffs, and the rich people don't live where we do. They live in bubbles. We don't. We can't afford it. They can. My problem is that we seem to have government of, by and for the rich. I don't really believe they have the interests or working stiffs at heart or ever did. So, I am on the side of the working class, because that's the side I'm on whether I like it or not. Therefore, I have issues voting for rich people but seldom have a choice. This time I have a choice.

phylny

(8,442 posts)
85. This interests me.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:18 PM
Jan 2016

Having lived in NYC and where we live now, in very Red, very rural Virginia, I'd have to disagree. My experience is that people who live here may never have been out of the state, or at least the tri-state area, let alone traveled to the Grand Canyon, Europe. or Asia, have never met people of different religions (Jews or Muslims), and are about the most close-minded people I've ever met. Talk about a bubble.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
102. I was raised in a large west coast city.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:37 PM
Jan 2016

For the past 20 years I have lived in very red, very rural, SW Virginia. There are some Jews and Muslims and a few racial minorities here, although most of the people are white protestants. Some of the wealthiest white people in the state live in mansions behind bubble protected walls in my town, and some of the poorest live in trailers with plywood windows in hollers. The percentage of close minded idiots and just plain bad people is no greater here than anywhere else I've ever lived, and I've lived in a lot of places.

phylny

(8,442 posts)
111. I'm probably not far from you,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:00 PM
Jan 2016

and I've lived in a lot of places, too. My point is, New York City's "bubble factor" is no worse than other places.

And, when we moved here, someone asked my daughter, "Have you ever met a Jewish person????"

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
116. The one thing diversity and big cities do
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:17 PM
Jan 2016

is destroy any illusions one might harbor about different groups of people actually being different in any meaningful way. My position is that anything which significantly isolates or insulates groups of people from each other within a community is bad.

zentrum

(9,866 posts)
100. Funny, I live there too
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:33 PM
Jan 2016

…..and yet I understand completely what this poster is saying.

In fact, in NY, the elite is up close and personal. No doubt at all about its bubble characteristics.

zentrum

(9,866 posts)
121. And do you travel around
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:37 PM
Jan 2016

…..on public transportation much and get into other neighborhoods?

Seen gentrification in action? As in Harlem, The Lower East Side, The Upper West Side, Greenwich Village? Noticed how off-shore owned real estate is changing the whole character of the city and destroying established neighborhoods? Maybe you should get out more.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
122. I go to church in the village so I am very aware of what the rich have done there.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:40 PM
Jan 2016

I am in Manhattan all the time so i know what is happening here.


Also hapoening in northern Brooklyn.

zentrum

(9,866 posts)
172. Then I'm baffled
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:47 PM
Jan 2016

….by your denial of the bubble of the rich elite. They are changing the face of both those places, with complete indifference and even cruelty. Isn't that how one defines "bubble"? They don't see and don't care about people outside their group.

If you go to church in the Village then you must be aware of how passionately the locals are fighting to preserve their middle/working class life and how much the bubbly rich are coming in with new multi-million dollar condos, expensive restaurants and luxury item stores, as if the local people do not exist.

I was born and grew up in Manhattan and I know what all these posters are talking about when they talk about the NY bubble.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
6. Politicians who speak to "rage" are called ideologues. And yes, that's what Sanders is.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:44 PM
Jan 2016

Sanders would be despised as soon as he won the nomination.

Only in your bubble does he have any favorability left after the rightwing attack machine starts in on him.

So I think you might want to reconsider your OP as a case of projection when you talk about 'bubbles'.

doc03

(35,914 posts)
25. He has about as much chance getting any of his pie
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:55 PM
Jan 2016

in the sky promises passed as I got hitting the lotto.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
41. And what's Hillary going to get passed with the GOP congress? More money for the drug war?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:04 PM
Jan 2016

That seems to be the only concrete "issue" she's interested in talking about, these days.

http://amp.twimg.com/v/bc5e37cb-dbc1-4345-8ab0-08ed45544042

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
107. I bought a couple of tickets in the last big go-'round
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:48 PM
Jan 2016

Sure, he may not deliver on all the promises, but I believe him when he says he will try. Sanders wants a chance to lead; Hillary just wants to be President.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
26. Socialist is not a dirty word, anymore...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:56 PM
Jan 2016

...outside of the people who would never vote Dem anyway.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
155. She already has - for at least 20 years.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 11:32 AM
Jan 2016

She's even surviving the "left-wing attack machine" too.

Cosmocat

(14,672 posts)
158. 99% spot on
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jan 2016

Bernie is OK.

I am voting for him.

The overwhelming majority of Bernie supporters here, not so much.

That said, you are spot on, the moment he were to become the presumptive nominee the right wing and its lapdog beltway media will turn on him like they turned on BHO, and the Bernie supporters here who gleefully espouse right wing slander on Hillary will scream how unfair it is.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
10. everyone i know is for bernie or trump
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:48 PM
Jan 2016

lefties are for bernie, righties are for trump. indys are going to both. i have one acquaintance who is a hillary supporter. i am sure my informal survey is repeated all around the country.

people are fed up.

sanders v trump 2016
get your popcorn now!



Karma13612

(4,592 posts)
71. Presto Hot Air popper is on standby!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:05 PM
Jan 2016

Spray on EVOO, sprinkle on the sea salt, and a glass of white wine to round out the party.

I am set for tomorrrow night's town hall!!

Bernie is going to kick some major @$$.

murielm99

(30,999 posts)
103. Every one you know?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:43 PM
Jan 2016

You are the one living in a bubble. Bernie has less support than you realize.

Projection, much?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
127. hillary has a LOT less support
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:13 AM
Jan 2016

than her fans here want to acknowledge imo.

i know conservatives who like bernie.

but only the votes will tell us for sure

ps and i did not say everyone i know is for bernie...i said they are for bernie or trump. the antiestablishment vibe is very strong. and i am not in a bubble, just a typical middle class town.

riversedge

(71,426 posts)
11. You are pretty self-rightous.........Making up likes about Hillary and her supporters. Shame on you
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:49 PM
Jan 2016


...The rest are, like Hillary, poo-pooing it and telling us worthless peons that we have no right to be angry.
 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
47. You got alerted.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jan 2016

On Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The only liar here is Hillary.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1060005

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

If we can't call Bernie a liar then we can't cal lHillary a liar.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:17 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: To paraphrase the late Don Ho - So here's to the golden moon And here's to the silver sea And mostly here's a toast To the end of silly infighting between you and me.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I can't hide a post that's true.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to grow up and get a thicker skin. No ToS violation.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: As far as I know, it is OK to call Bernie a liar
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
 

Health Wagon

(99 posts)
66. That's your problem right there.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:53 PM
Jan 2016

America has about 300M more people than just New York City.,

If you don't get that, then I feel sorry for you and your eventual loss.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
16. could not be any more wrong
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:51 PM
Jan 2016

It's Bernie'S reliance on anger that will do him in. Angerr will only get you so far. Americans want an uplifting message, and not constant negativity.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
29. I'm sure you don't see that the exact same argument can be made about Sanders supporters right?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:57 PM
Jan 2016

Any union that endorses Sanders is immediately decried. Minority voters just aren't informed enough about who Sanders is. Internet surveys are statistically valid. "Everybody I know is for Sanders" so scientific polling must be wrong.

People often live in bubbles that reinforce what we want to believe. I've been guilty of it. But the thing about living in a bubble is that while it's easy to see if other people are, it's often difficult to see if you are in the moment.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
33. The only people I know who like Hillary are...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jan 2016

...older middle class women who like her because "it is time for a woman to be president", the issues are irrelevant to them.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
75. This older middle class woman does not like Hillary.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:11 PM
Jan 2016

I do hope to see a woman President in my lifetime. Just not Hillary.

phylny

(8,442 posts)
93. This older, upper-middle-class woman supports
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:23 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie, but will vote for Hillary or the eventual Democratic nominee, and thinks all this infighting is ridiculous.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
35. The hate towards the "establishment" is not by Hillary or her supporters.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:01 PM
Jan 2016

Maybe this question should be ask of Sanders, he has been talking about the "establishment". No, Hillary supporters are not living in a bubble, we are in wide open spaces, join us, it is really nice in wide open spaces.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
37. We are all in bubbles
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:01 PM
Jan 2016

The difference is some people get out and talk to other people about their bubbles. I don't think Hillary really does that. She seems uncomfortable talking to people outside of her circle. She was practically livid with BLM when she talked to them. She told one kid that free college isn't something we can pay for for everyone. She tells the worst jokes ever. If you don't believe me ask Gandhi, he probably wouldn't hold it against her though.

I myself could be very isolated in my world. But, I talk to people when I got out particularly when I go to downtown Minneapolis and when I visit the UofM.

OrwellwasRight

(5,206 posts)
39. There is some truth in what you say.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:03 PM
Jan 2016

I see and hear this too in my world outside the "conventional wisdom" bubble.

handmade34

(22,774 posts)
43. I live in Vermont
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:16 PM
Jan 2016

not a bubble...

I am supporting Hillary (but Love Bernie as well)

Hillary supporters do not live in a bubble

this nonsense of trashing each other really should stop... you've got your reason, Hillary supporters have theirs and it is not because they don't understand the issues, or peoples' rage, or...

I don't have to hate one to support the other... the goal here is to get as many Democrats elected as possible this fall

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
46. It is not 1972.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:23 PM
Jan 2016

McGovern lost because the socially conservative blue collar people hated the "dirty stinking hippies". Those people are all Republicans now and will never vote for a Democrat. They hate Hillary with a passion.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
51. It's 2016 and not much has changed. Your post does not support your argument.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:30 PM
Jan 2016

Those Republicans and a lot of Independents will never vote for Sanders.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
54. The independents I know like Sanders more than they like Hillary.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:34 PM
Jan 2016

This notion that "independent" = "centrist" is a myth.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
91. I'm feeling a Mondale disaster if Hillary is nominated...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:23 PM
Jan 2016

Except Mondale was never indicted for anything,
and his spouse didn't have a bad habit
of mounting anything that was warm.


 

840high

(17,196 posts)
45. You desribed my whole
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:17 PM
Jan 2016

family - some love Trump, some love Sanders. Nobody plans on voting for Clinton.

American people want change desperately.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
48. What I find interesting is the difference
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jan 2016

in their explanations of their policies:

Bernie tries to explain them in rather clear and
simple terms.

HRC starts out, but then more often than not tells
us to google her proposes on her website.

Maybe she intends voters to visit her site, but
I find it a bit of a put off, generally speaking.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
64. They is Lovable don't cha'know, they try tell us everyday, read about it in their top dollar outlets
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:52 PM
Jan 2016

One should always observe carefully when the trumpeter blows his own horn


MisterP

(23,730 posts)
79. they see themselves as our bosses and representatives--of ALL the people, from commoner randos
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:14 PM
Jan 2016

to Wall Street

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
58. You misread what I posted.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:42 PM
Jan 2016

I said:

I know a lot of Low-information, a-political people who like both Sanders AND Trump and if Sanders is not the nominee and Trump is they WILL vote for Trump.


I'm not talking about clear Sanders supporters, I'm taking about people who don't follow politics and like anyone on either the left or right that says "fuck you" to the status quo.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
61. Fuck no, of course not!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jan 2016

But there are a lot of angry people willing to vote for anyone channeling that anger, we have to make sure it is somebody good, like Bernie, rather than a monster, like Trump.

gordyfl

(598 posts)
68. The System IS Rigged
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:01 PM
Jan 2016

I heard for the second time Hillary said that we can't have people "believing" the system is rigged. It's bad for a democracy, she says. As opposed to Bernie "The system IS rigged".

Bernie tells it like it is.

Tarc

(10,492 posts)
92. Glad to see that you identify your candidate with Trump
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:23 PM
Jan 2016

All the more reason why I shall vote for Hillary next month.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
95. Thanks for showing that you don't get it.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:24 PM
Jan 2016

People are angry, bashing and insulting them will just make them more angry.

Tarc

(10,492 posts)
97. Being angry isn't a quality that I look for in a president
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:28 PM
Jan 2016

Stamping one's feet and crying how BAD! BAD! BAD! everything is without offering realistic alternatives is what fringe candidates do.

But again, thanks for placing your candidate alongside Trump, the comparison is illuminating.

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
104. It's more like a dank, dark cave than a bubble
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:46 PM
Jan 2016

A miserable, short troglodyte existence followed by a painful death and a corpse chewed by feral dogs. It suits them, though. They refuse to aspire to anything better.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
110. Damn right they do.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jan 2016

Many are only concerned to get a female as president. They don't care if she's a corporatist or not, they just buy her lies, and want her to win. Many are hold backs who wanted her in 2008.
They fail to realize that in the general election, she will lose, because of the hate that is on the Right for the Clintons. Even some on the Left don't like her.
They are gonna have to wake up.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
135. "Many are only concerned to get a female as president." Exactly!
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:58 AM
Jan 2016

It's a good example of Bourgeois (to put on my Marxist hat) Faux-Feminism.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
113. Hillary would THUMP TRUMP. You are saying things that are FLAWED on so many levels.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:10 PM
Jan 2016

I am a Hillary supporter, and I don't "live in a bubble." That, frankly, is a very NUMB thing to say. NUMB to reality. NUMB to thought. NUMB to reason. We of course "get" that people are upset and frustrated about income inequality, etc. But we also look at a big picture. Hillary has plans to reduce income inequality, grow the economy, etc. Who is READY to lead at home and in the world? Trump? Hillary would THUMP TRUMP because he has alienated huge segments of the voting public and is UNQUALIFIED for the job. Give EVERYONE more credit. In fact, Bernie has said he would back Hillary if she wins the nomination. Does that mean his is also in a bubble?

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
114. I do not think that the word "hate" is too strong...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:12 PM
Jan 2016

That would be my single/divorced/widowed neighborhood ladies...they HATE her when I bring up politics...same for multiple female co-workers.

If...and i'l only saying if...she was in the general...she will lose to any crazy that is the finalist against her.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
117. It is not just her supporters. The Ironworkers here in MN
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:27 PM
Jan 2016

are supporting her. They are in another kind of bubble.

They are setting in MN a state that has pretty well held their own because MN has a Democratic governor, House and Senate as well as many local officials that have held the line as much as they can.

They are doing fine. Work with good wages etc. One of them talked about it not being very bad in the country because at Christmas everyone was out shopping and they were all buying something.

So they ignore Bernie. They ignore those of us were not out there shopping and who do not have good wages. They even ignore the situation of their own kids.

But the world does not end at the MN border. And they cannot continue to ignore the anger and the problems of the rest of the country. Because the state of the whole country is what is causing a lot of our problems.

There are two kinds of bubbles: the hillary bubble and the I'm doing just fine bubble.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
162. Yes, for me also. Friends said that you have to be at the
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:05 PM
Jan 2016

meeting to count and if you do not go then the labor bosses are the ones who decide.

On the other hand my point was that it is very easy to set in a state that is still doing pretty good and think there are no problems.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
119. I disagree that Trump could beat Hillary
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:30 PM
Jan 2016

I, for one, feel that having to choose between those two is like being asked if I'd rather be shot or hanged. Well, maybe that isn't quite right. It might be more like a choice between be shot or hanged (Hillary) or boiled in oil (Trump or Cruz).

However, I do agree that the Democratic establishment is telling me that I have no right to complain, and that there exists a long position paper form Jon Cowan, founder of the Republican Lite think tank, Third Way, which claims that there's no evidence that I or other Sandernistas are complaining at all. That kind of garbage was old when the DLC was promoting Blair Democrats in 2003 (here is a critique of the piece written after the British elections of 2005).

I was also told I had no right to complain when President Obama didn't put the kabash on Bush's infringement of the Fourth Amendment. I resented that establishment-knows-best smugness from the Obama ha sempre regione crowd, too.

Well, I voted for Obama twice. The second time I will admit that had to hold my nose, but the first time I really thought we were coming to end to all things Reagan, Bush and Bush. All that Republican crap that the DLC thought was so great that the Democrats should just wave a big white flag and join it. Like Bill Clinton did. He was one of the best Republican presidents ever.

When I joined the army in order to sit our a recession, the year was 1976 and Gerald Ford was President. I was one of six college graduates in my basic training company. Those were tough times. When I got out Jimmy Carter was President and things really weren't much better. How bad was Carter? To too many people, he made a second rate matinee idol look like a good alternative. I held my nose and voted for Carter. I think I did the right thing. While I've never been a Carter revisionist, Reagan's supply-side economics ushered in the era bubble-to-bubble booms and busts, where America enjoyed an illusion of prosperity within one bubble or another until each one burst. I have never in my adult life known a truly stable, robust American economy, like the economy after World War II that my parents enjoyed. During that entire period that I worked for a living, the rich got richer and richer, the middle class got smaller and smaller, and the Democratic Party establishment became as corrupt as the Republicans have been since the Gilded Age.

Well, establishmentarians, after 35 years of that shit, it's payback time. And you know what they say about payback. If you don't, ask King Louis and Queen Marie Antoinette about it. Yes, I'm angry.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
136. Bernie would be considered a centrist in Europe.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 01:02 AM
Jan 2016

There is no substantial "far left" in the US.

The "political spectrum" in the US is claustrophobically narrow on economic issues.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
140. A drowning person will drag you down with them, not deliberately but out of desperation
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:01 AM
Jan 2016

You are apparently unaware of the desperation many Americans are feeling as they drown economically with prices that rise continually and wages that have been stagnant for fifteen years while more and more of the productivity gains we have sweated blood to achieve go to those who merely have a lot of money already.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
145. Hillary's idea of "dead broke" and actual dead broke are two entirely different things
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:11 AM
Jan 2016

She hasn't even driven a car in this millennium, she is totally insulated from the concerns of everyday Americans (a term she quickly dropped when it flopped).

Hillary is replaying her 2008 campaign against Obama almost word for word...

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
149. You make mountains out of molehills.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jan 2016

Take it in context - They are multi-millionaires. It probably did feel like they were dead broke at the time. It's all relative. And I have no prejudice against the rich, nor do I blame them for my being poor.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
151. It's not all relative
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jan 2016
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.


Beacool

(30,264 posts)
129. I think that Sanders' supporters are the ones living in a bubble.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:31 AM
Jan 2016

I'm looking past IA and NH. They've been hyped enough. Let's see where we stand after Super Tuesday. That will give everybody a better measure of where this primary election is really going.

Only time will tell whose assessment is correct.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
142. I get the feeling they shuttle from climate controlled buildings
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:43 AM
Jan 2016

to climate controlled cars to climate controlled airplanes to climate controlled Wall St luncheons.

All the while destroying the climate for the rest of the world.

Those who live in steel forests will never see what those of us on the ground in the real world do. The suffering of the wildlife, the dying of the trees, the end of our Edens. All in the continued name of more for the most and less for the least.

Only one candidate is a threat to them. It is why Bloomberg is so agitated. Wall St must be protected from responsibility like an affluenza teen at all costs. Even Trump is preferable to them.

Cosmocat

(14,672 posts)
143. Those in glass houses ...
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:05 AM
Jan 2016

I have never seen the supporters of a candidate work so hard to alienate others from their candidate.

What I read here with Bernie supporters is what I have dealt with Conservatives the last three decades.

Bullying, demeaning, while making themselves out to be victims.

Despite your efforts, I will vote Bernie ...

Vinca

(50,532 posts)
144. I think if Hillary is the nominee the only way she wins is with Republican votes.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:10 AM
Jan 2016

She hasn't excited Democrats enough to bring out a sufficient number of voters to win. She will have to count on sem-sane GOP voters to decide they can't pull the lever for Trump. On the other side, Trump has the crazies in a frenzy and they'll walk over the edge of the flat earth for him. If it's Hillary and Trump, I can imagine Trump winning. Very scary.

MineralMan

(146,624 posts)
150. There are many bubbles people live in.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 10:47 AM
Jan 2016

All of them seem to protect them from outside forces. There's no protection, though, and bubbles do burst.

Thenewire

(130 posts)
153. You got it all wrong
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jan 2016

Sanders and Trump are extremist candidates. This anger and hatred you describe is akin to right wing extremism that relies on mudslinging rather than facts so I ask you to reconsider your party affiliation. Sanders is an extremist candidate just like Trump and him and his followers have absolutely no problem in throwing the underprivileged and minorities under the bus to make an unrealistic point. The extreme has no viable way of winning, I assure you that Trump will eventually appear more moderate against crazy old Sanders to the general electorate and win. So in the end you have Clinton who may or may not have a chance but at the very least if she loses you might make the argument that she wasn't a liberal so that in the future we might have a candidate that is younger, less egotistical and more liberal than Sanders.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
167. "Sanders is an extremist candidate" Are you fucking serious???
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:03 PM
Jan 2016

What you are calling "extreme" has been the MAINSTREAM in Europe since the 50s.

ecstatic

(33,432 posts)
160. Trump and Sanders... I agree that some of their supporters
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 11:51 AM
Jan 2016

have a lot in common.

But a few Sanders' supporters have made me more open minded regarding what could be. If Bernie somehow wins, I'd try my best to make the "revolution" happen. I just think Trump would destroy him in the GE. The grumpy/crazy old man memes would be endless.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
161. I lived in and around NYC for 65 years
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jan 2016

It is a wonderful place with wonderful people. Also a lot of scumbags.

Now I live in Santa Fe. A wonderful place with wonderful people. Not a lot of scumbags at all.

Got texted from someone helping set up the Sanders campaign here in New Mexico. Only thing I've heard from HRC is a request for $1 donation, presumably to offset the average amount of donations.

Back to NYC, yes, it is the home of lots of bubbles and, yes, Nu Yawkers think they are the center of the world. Probably are.

Problem is that the City (and most people know what you mean when you say "the City&quot is hardly the most human city on earth. It is hard, cold and expensive for most, El Dorado for a handful.

It will probably go for HRC though the rest of NYS is less certain.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
163. We really don't need any more inflammatory broad-brushing...
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 12:30 PM
Jan 2016

...of either side's supporters. Not constructive. At all.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
164. It's interesting: the PC-obsessed crowd absolutely created Trump, and the 1% absolutely...
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 02:15 PM
Jan 2016

created Sanders. One of these sides is going to regret it.

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