2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders Supporters Overly Zealous and Divisive
It will be a hard fall brought on by those who "support" him most. I do wonder if this is how America elects Donald Trump....
Taking apart Al Franken on Facebook is akin to mutiny in my estimation. The lack of respect for traditiinal democrats shows a real intolerance I never imagined was percolating here. And you will lose needed allies. Wasn't this the "no attacks" campaign?
And it goes out to Paul Krugman as well.
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/24/1474580/-Paul-Krugman-I-m-getting-the-kind-of-correspondence-I-usually-get-from-Rush-Limbaugh-listeners?detail=email
I'm sick at heart. I've been blocked by both groups for asking questions. And I really don't want to be here after 12 years of being registered on DU.
So bash away. That is what this place has come to and it is depressing as hell.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Quick, bring a truckload of smellin' salts and fainting couches! Mutiny! I do declare! *fans self, sips mint julep*
840high
(17,196 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Politics is a blood sport, trash GDP and read a book, it's toxic in here on the best of days. And definitely an acquired taste.
Did you ever stop to think they're angry because "traditional" Dems don't represent them anymore?
This has been coming for a long time.
Oh and it's hardly one sided, the despicable things said and done by Hillary's supporters are legendary.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)A hrc supporter called bernie a 'crusty old jew' and I've seen other terrible things too but somehow that doesn't matter. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I'm a leftie and somehow here that means I am either a commie or a bitch. I have waited forty years for Bernie. He's my guy. I'm tired of hearing whining from the other side. Put me on ignore. You'll feel better and so will I.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The racist dog whistles in 2008 were much worse although you're right about the anti-Semitism. Its still early and I'm sure they're not done.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)It's become such a regular occurrence- you can almost set your watch to them.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I find the whininess and victimization snortworthy.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Lie. Never happened. They disagreed with him. That's not taking anyone apart.
You guys damned well better butch up. If the DNC manages to wrangle the nomination for Hillary you better be ready for some real shit slinging because the Republicans will show her how to do it. Effectively. Not like the pathetic shit she's been trying to throw at Sanders that keeps blowing back on her.
"Taking apart Al Franken." Oy vey!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I don't do Facebook but like Al Franken, so I am interested.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)but the ones I saw basically were just disagreeing with him. I didn't see any obvious vitriol.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)"Al, I think you're great, but Hillary is a corporatist and Bernie is much more aligned with our ideals" and that sort of thing. The comments are overwhelmingly civil toward Al. And yes some are derogatory toward Hillary but for the most part the comments are not over the top and the posters cite their reasons for disliking her as the nominee -- Wall St. ties, Iraq War, lack of support for single payer, etc.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)Enthusiastic .... what's the difference ?
I'm going with enthusiasm ... Feels good to be FOR something and inspired by a brighter future ....
cali
(114,904 posts)And I disagree. I think that largely there's a concerted effort to smear Bernie supporters as a way to taint him.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)a corporate democrat candidate act? Set back and shut up? Stay home on election day? Roll over and play dead? Ignore what is happening?
We have had a divided party since 1992 and we the progressives have been doing just that. This time we are not going to let the corporate wing of the party run us over once again. We are fighting back.
I am sorry you are depressed but do you think we have felt any different since 1992?
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)(Great reply; thanks)
jwirr
(39,215 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)It's all projection.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)I understand passion for your beliefs but that was uncalled for.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)been followed is that you don't get to tell other DUers to leave. It's insulting, and implies that opinions are not wanted here unless they agree with yours.
Please don't do that. Please don't tell other DUers to "go away." You're not an administrator here. You are just another DUer.
Thanks for your cooperation.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Yes, the online Bernie following has grown into a hate-fueled irrational horde, but it's a group dynamic thing. Bernie fans in real life aren't much like what you see on Kos, Reddit, and DU, and even some of the online trolls are probably decent people in real life.
It's kids blowing off steam. They're frustrated with the political situation, they see Bernie as a savior and everyone else as the enemy.
Yes, nominating Bernie is the easiest path to president Trump, but I doubt we're going there.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)but definitely not the last sentence.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)Much appreciated. I wouldn't have posted this if I hadn't seen how the vitriol is over the top and spreading when it comes to going after someone like Al Franken on Facebook. How is it good for your candidate to vilify so many potential allies.
I've no idea how this will shake out. But this place is not helpful right now.
(I will feel much better when Debbie Wasserman Schultz is out of the DNC. SHE has been detrimental to the primary and can still do damage so long as she's in the job.)
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Bernie supporters are unlike anything we have seen, ever!
Worse than Republicans and there are so damn many of them!
It's this way every four years and you just can't take it personally. People are passionate about who they support and some get carried away on both sides of the fence.
Republicans are different. There's where the real hate is.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)like they do and yet they talk in the most fevered and ridiculous tones I've yet seen on this site.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Like this one: jackassradicals.com
You'll notice that on that so-called "humor" site (where the "humor" is even less funny than Mallard Fillmore), nearly all the posters have screen names that mock the names of Bernie-supporting DUers. The more prolific a Bernie supporter is on DU, the more they are mocked on that other site.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Jackpine Radicals
http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php
Most (or all?) of the posters there are also on DU. That site would seem to have started in response to one of the off-DU sites started by Hillary supporters...
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)the administrators make every effort to keep the discussion civil and on topic, just like Bernie. Trolls are dealt with swiftly. For example, when the site first started, there was a troll who tried to sling mud, but s/he got the boot real fast. Bernie has even visited the site and likes the civil tone
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)I've had a long day today and am on the other side of the world, so it's approaching bedtime for me. In the meantime, maybe another member can show you the thread about Bernie visiting the site
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)But none of them will sway me. Nor do they bother me.
I'll make up my own mind - as will most intelligent voters.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)People need to relax in all this "The other candidates supporters are rabid" stuff.
It's silly.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It had been almost an hour since the last one and peeps were getting the jitters.
DOWN WITH BERNIE BROS!
BOO!
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)their spleen on berners when the real threat to HRC's campaign is the establishment that she has so slavishly served all this time. Who hasn't seen the reports and stories about how they're readying plan b when she implodes. And she must be for them to be so brazen and open about all of their actions. They must have the internal polls too. It can't be good for them to be readying to kick her to the curb. Biden, Bloomburg, others. They already have someone in line to replace her. They won't be sentimental about it either. She will be out if she falls in Iowa and NH. She bet the farm on both states, expects a firewall to halt Bernie in SC and if and when it doesn't, she will be out and they won't give two shits about the feelings of her supporters. This is about control and money. That is what the establishment does. They don't give a shit about her or her family or bill. They want what they want and if she can't bring it, they will find someone else who they believe can. That is who you need for vent at, not us. We only want our candidate to win. We don't have a structure supporting us like she has that can cut his throat and toss him aside. She does. Consider that for a while. You know from the news cycle that its true and they're waiting.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Probably the same one who sent many other PM's while on repeated time outs.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)I put that one on ignore long ago. They did stop PMing me when I directly asked why they were arguing via PM instead of publicly. It seems menacing - I don't think that one belongs here at all.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)From everyone who has been harassed. It's ridiculous that this has gone on so long and affected so many.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)No one took Franken apart. The 40 or so posts I read were people who are disappointed in a liberal senator endorsing a less-than-liberal candidate over the liberal one.
People are allowed to be emotional and angry.
In fact, the people being the rudest on his page were Clinton supporters who were name-calling.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)How many Hillary supporters swarmed Killer Mike's page telling him how disappointed they are in him, and how he has let everyone down?
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)I like Al but he annoyed me with some of his stances as well.
The Hillary crowd seems increasingly panicked. They thought this would be a cakewalk to a coronation but then they thought that in 2008 too.
I guess pointing out facts about Hillary, like the millions she has taken from a Wall Street, or her pro Iraq war vote, is zealous and divisive to them.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, that is how I see a lot of Hillaryites.
We need to slow down our war machine, we need to swing back from this latest Robber Baron era, cut into rampant economic inequality. The game is rigged and Bernie is the only candidate on record wanting to really unrig it.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Great post!
blue neen
(12,308 posts)There are a number of undecided voters here. We'd like to read information, feel-good stories, and discussion of policy issues. Instead, it's just insults as if they've been shot out by automatic weapons. Tat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat. Over and over.
I know Republicans like to infiltrate DU to try the old "divide and conquer" set up. Whatever, have at it. It doesn't work, because it doesn't change anyone's mind.
I really see more and more Democrats being thrown under the bus. Al Franken now? Sheesh, I hadn't heard that one. What a shame.
Keep calm and carry on.
underpants
(182,279 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)I do hope cooler heads will prevail.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)If you don't want to be here, don't. You're free to leave at any time.
Thick skin is recommended in politics.
Have a good night.
valerief
(53,235 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)So we should just gobble up the jizz we've been presented with and like it? I respect Krugman but disagree with him on this issue. We don't follow royals here. We question our leaders, and reject them when they suck. That's what democracy is. Want to talk about lack of respect? Look at Hillary's campaign and how she would "shake some sense" into people who don't just love her.
Yeah, fuck this shit!
Jack-o-Lantern
(965 posts)Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)Thank goodness Sen. McCaskill wasn't zealous nor divisive in calling an otherwise potential Democratic nominee a Communist.
Nor was DWS zealous nor divisive in calling him a thief, then refusing to defend that accusation when asked to do so in court.
One must look far and wide to find zealous and divisive Clinton supporters. They are all saintly victims of Bernie's treachery.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Wait until Hillary Clinton's time to speak at the town hall on CNN..Bernie's supporters are going to take over the Hillary Discussion thread. But I say hold on, don't leave, we need you.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Sign up here: http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/
Peruse the site, then come back and talk to me about how mean Sanders supporters are.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)the daily "Bernies supporter's are so mean" thread. So that's no secret.
But since the OP didn't appear to be aware that there are plenty of haters on the HRC side- I just thought I'd point it out. -
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)Yet...
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Perhaps the OP would feel more at home at your other Bernie hate site.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
trueblue2007
(17,138 posts)i will vote for our nominee. i don't rant, rave and carry on like i see bernie people doing.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)ends up ... generating anger. Why this is appealing to anyone is beyond me, but it's obviously appealing to a great many people (as it is in the other party). This anger and and retributive behavior is not accidental. A real leader generates a constituency that is inspired to work constructively and positively. Finger wagging and sloganeering and promoting ideological fervor generates a constituency that becomes a cult of personality devoted to destroying anyone who doesn't drink the Leader's Kool-Aid hook line and sinker.
I find the conspiratorial, angry behavior, frankly scary. It's one thing to criticize the political opponent. Have at it. That's politics, childish as it is. It's another thing to vilify honest, thinking, experienced people (such as Franken or Krugman) in the process for their beliefs, and to accuse them of all kinds of ridiculous perfidy. I don't want to live in a country where a leader tolerates this kind of behavior on the part of his acolytes. I believe Senator Sanders, unwittingly or not, has created a monster. He needs to find a way to rein in this nonsense. If he can't inspire that kind of respect in his followers, he's not a leader.
So don't respond with the tired old "Oh, there they go again, attacking the supporters" business. It's way beyond that. It's a real issue. And it's beyond depressing.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)The constant drive to generate anger is troubling. If Bernie was ever elected the anger would quickly turn on him as his supporters woke to the realization that ours is a system that only works when there is compromise.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Such an exaggeration.
A lot of people disagreed with his endorsement, yet their language toward Franken was almost entirely civil. I'm sure there are always a few nuts, but, really, disagreement is not the same as attacking and villifying.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Democratic and then get the blame when the party chooses a loosing candidate? The lack of respect for traditional Democrats came from traditional Democrats abandoning the American people and accepting big fat checks from lobbyists. Sorry you will get no sympathy from me.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I mean, come on... geez... I spent the earlier part of the evening trying to provide evidence to somewhere who wanted me to explain about Sander's plan for single payer. You know what? It was a bait for an argument where there was only one answer, which was to say how stupid it was to think that there was such a thing.
I'm unsure how many in either court "win" the nasty award, but if you really wish to discuss the issues of this election here, or elsewhere, you'll find PLENTY of Sanders supporters like myself and MANY here who are willing to engage on the issues.
I've been doing it all along. Oh, and when people act like fools, I don't suffer them easily. That shouldn't make me anything more than someone who stands up for themselves.
Take a break if it's that bad. Probably will do you good.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Weird.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)[link:http://[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]|
toshiba783
(74 posts)The amount of disinformation, hatred and assumptions being spread is really unfortunate - I totally get attacking someones record with proven information, but those attacks are rarities. At least on this board, it would be nice if moderators would just delete all of the blatant falsities that are only meant to rile up the base.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)support a system that delivers very little to the people.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)betsuni
(25,136 posts)I can save time and get the same effect by slamming my head against the wall while angrily muttering paranoid Hillary conspiracies, Wall St., Goldman Sachs, The Establishment, corporate America, emails, status quo, FDR Democrats -- then I burst into tears at how mean Camp Weathervane Hillarians are 'cause that one time someone said something mean and how dare anyone make fun of me for posting ridiculous things with carefully randomized capitalizations in THE title -- and finally, self-righteously vow never to vote for Hillary ever ever ever no way, Establishment Mommy can't tell me what to do, she's not my REAL mom.
Done.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)As YOU are being overly zealous and divisive AT BERNIE SUPPORTERS!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)"why are you always so mean to the friends of the guy who keeps hitting you? That's not very lady-like is it?"
You want us to act lady-like? Or you want us to like the lady?
---> Then treat us like a lady, and stop abusing us.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)and Hillary supporters constantly talk about Bernie and his supporters?
It's like their candidate is NotBernie and his vp NotBerniesSupporters.
Do they ever post about Hillary?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Hillary cannot run on the issues.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)What a shame they don't have a candidate they can be enthusiastic about, I guess the endless ops about Bernie's "cult" following are just jealousy.
Maybe it's also due to lack of good news and glowing reviews of her agenda?
If there were any positive articles about Hillary they would be posting those instead, wouldn't they?
Bernie bros post dozens of interesting ops daily about things like you know...issues.
betsuni
(25,136 posts)Bernie supporters constantly talk about Bernie?
From someone whose comments in this thread were:
"the despicable things said and done by Hillary supporters are legendary."
"the racist dog whistles in 2008 were much worse although you're right about the anti-Semitism. It's still early and I'm sure they're not done."
Do you ever talk about Bernie?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why shouldn't we point out the nasty bigoted things said about Bernie and his supporters here and elsewhere?
And if you do a search of my posts you'll see I do talk about Bernie.
Do you ever contribute anything positive, betsuni?
If so I haven't seen it.
betsuni
(25,136 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I have a stellar candidate I've loved and supported for decades, hundreds of like minded Bernistas to share him with and two websites to enjoy.
betsuni
(25,136 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She's just a child.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Calm down, Francis.
I do not appreciate the group attacks.
Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)Obama v HRC didn't rip apart everything about her here.
It is more than anything destructive of a movement and the people you need in that movement. If you insist on trashing and destroying a place, why not pick a con board instead of DU?
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)Meanwhile, the Sanders skepticism of the wonks continues: Paul Starr lays out the case. As far as I can tell, every serious progressive policy expert on either health care or financial reform who has weighed in on the primary seems to lean Hillary. This could be because being in the trenches of the health care fight gives you an acute sense of the possible, and because having paid close attention to the financial crisis makes you a shadow-banking, not too big to fail guy. Or it could be because they are, one and all, corrupt corporate lackeys. I report, you decide.
Just to be clear, Sanders himself is not at fault here. And if Hillary is the nominee, I expect him to do what she herself did in 2008, and will surely do if he wins an upset: make it clear that whatever their differences, and whatever the primary losers personal frustration, theres no comparison with the reactionary extremism of all the GOP candidates.
But its disappointing to see so much intolerance over what are basically differences in strategy, not goals.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2016/01/27/health-wonks-and-bernie-bros/?smid=tw-nytimeskrugman&smtyp=cur&referer=https://t.co/I6e33Cszop
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)The BBC!
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-35422316
This would be my experience to a T:
"They harass and try to take away the credibility from the people who question Mr Sanders."
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)towards not voting for either one. I was never going to support Hillary. But Bernie Sanders has turned me all the way off.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)There is still time to reassess. The more obnoxious and cruel Sanders supporters can try to be more civil and represent Democratic Socialism in a more positive light.
I just fear every single GOP candidate so much that I want the Dems to get their/our acts together.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)None of the candidates turn me on. I'm not 'feeling the Bern,' and I can't stand the Clintons. O'Malley has zero chance, and he's flawed, too.
Maryland's primary is on Super Tuesday. Maybe Bernie had persuade me by then, but I don't think so. His unwillingness to understand how race and social justice TRUMPS class continues to baffle me...and turn me off.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)You'll never find a more liberal candidate.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Slavery is over. I have my own mind.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)More and more I'm leaning towards not voting for either one. I was never going to support Hillary. But Bernie Sanders has turned me all the way off.
That's exactly where she wound up being too. And neither one of you are even CLOSE to being alone in that regard.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)I posted this out of real desperation.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)If you are intent on undermining his campaign, then carry on.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I believe some should be peering in the mirror, checking the specks in their own eyes.
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)if one article writer says it's Bernie's problem, then that's the word of DOG and it must be a one-way street after all; it couldn't be that the article writer is traveling the other side of that street.
Autumn
(44,762 posts)Log out and don't come back.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)When you believe your cause is more just than your opponent and that they are bad just for opposing you there is not much you will not do in pursuit in of your cause. That is the genesis of a lot of human misery.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Another insulting diatribe ... Done
SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)It's similar to Trump's admission to saying bad things to get attention. DU, by majority, is Sanders territory. It's like a tidal wave of fury against Hillary - Who Bernie loves and respects.
This observation goes way beyond a BBC article. I'm of a different generation. I get why people are mad at HRC.I just don't see why emulating Trump helps Bernie.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)they are the problem not the solution. fuck them.....
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)honeylady
(157 posts)approve of these actions at all. If this is true, then I would hope Bernie would address this at his next rally. I have so many friends who are Bernie supporters and none of us would ever be malicious towards a Hilary supporter.
This whole vibe here on DU between Bernie supporters and Hilary supporters is very disturbing. I'm to the point that I don't come on DU much anymore.
Shame on everyone participating in this sort of crap!!!
Stargleamer
(1,979 posts)while staying mum on Hillary's plans, if she has any at all. So yes, in my opinion he is being quite unfair to Bernie.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Time for ConservaDems to go.