A potential or current Trump supporter is more likely to be swayed by Sanders than Clinton

[californiabernin]

to their better angels.

I don't think the establishment gets that yet. They will.

[RobertEarl]

1. Truth!

Welcome to DU.

The independents are very interested in Bernie and what he has to say. Clinton? Not so much.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Yeah, "the establishment".

They don't get it.

BTW - who is the Establishment again? There are so many individuals, groups, unions, and organizations that are being labelled as the Establishment these days, I can't keep up.

My general impression is that anyone who doesn't support Bernie is now "Establishment". Am I correct in that assumption? If not, could you send a link to who's establishment and who's not this week, just so I don't get confused?

TIA!

[Fumesucker]

8. A piece of advice to Clinton supporters I read on John Scalzi's blog

Scalzi is a writer who has people of all political stripes commenting and the level of discourse is very good.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/01/20/clinton-and-sanders-and-me/#comments

By commenter "Greg".

Kilroy: “what is the best way to reach out to someone like you with Bernie or Bust leanings?”

I’m not Bernie or Bust, but Clinton has regularly pissed me off (both with the way she votes over the years and more recently with the shitty behavior her campaign has been engaging in towards Bernie). I’ll vote for her if she gets the nomination, but only because I understand math.

To anyone who prefers Clinton over Sanders, if you want to reach out to Sanders people, stop stepping over Clinton’s shitty behavior. If you can’t see shitty behavior, then you need to admit that you have nothing to offer a Bernie or Bust person that would actually reach out to them. Reaching out is something you have to *give* a little something to accomplish. If you’re not willing, then you’re just looking for something to *take*.

[NanceGreggs]

9. Thanks for the "advice" ...

… but I have no need of it. That’s because I have neither the want nor the inclination to “reach out” to Sanders supporters.

They will, by and large, vote for HRC if she is the nominee. They will do so because it’s the right thing to do – even if it is merely to keep a Republican out of the WH rather than a preference for Hillary. Those who do what’s best for their fellow citizens require no prompting nor persuasion; they do it of their own accord.

As for those who want to be coddled or sweet-talked into doing what’s right, I can’t be bothered. I suspect that those who threaten to not vote or write-in Bernie’s name – the equivalent of throwing that vote away – probably never vote in any case, because they invariably find fault with every candidate, and use their so-called “principles” as an excuse to not actively participate in the process.

As has been made abundantly clear here on DU, there are far more BS supporters who have declared they will NOT vote for HRC, than Hillary supporters who have said they will NOT vote for Bernie. I believe that says everything about which group is willing to see a Trump or Cruz presidency if they don’t get their own way.

I am not about to coddle the kid who threatens to take his ball and go home if he’s not catered to. The thing is that with the millions of voters who are supporting HRC, that kid isn’t the only one who owns a ball. We can actually do very well without him and – aside from hearing his whining from the sidelines – no one will really notice that he’s not in the game.

[Fumesucker]

11. We want what your husband had when he passed

I thought that was what you wanted us to have too, that's what you said in your post at the time when you came in and bragged about how great single payer healthcare was.

Hillary is telling us specifically that we can't have that and Bernie says he wants to try and get it for us.

Your post that day had tears streaming down my face, I had recently lost a family member who did not get all that special treatment that your husband got and your post rubbed the misery in with a sledgehammer. To find out now that you didn't really mean it is the icing on the cake, in retrospect what you posted feels more and more like a personal brag than anything showing the slightest touch of compassion.

Just like Sid, single payer is great for you and yours and awful for us and ours. Bless your heart.

[NanceGreggs]

13. You bring up my dead husband ...

... in order to score political points?


Beneath contempt.

[Fumesucker]

17. No, I brought up your post that was so beautiful and powerful that it moved me to tears

One of the most memorable posts I've ever read on DU, you touched my heart.

Now you disavow those beautiful and moving words for nothing beyond politics.

[NanceGreggs]

18. Do you have a link to where I disavowed anything?

[Fumesucker]

19. Ah, Hillary is supporting single payer now?

[NanceGreggs]

20. You said I "disavowed" my previous statements.

Where are the links to my doing so?

[Fumesucker]

21. Are you now in favor of single payer for Americans?

If you are then why do you support a candidate who is firmly opposed to single payer while there is another candidate who wants us to have what you have?

[NanceGreggs]

22. I have always wanted to see ...

... my fellow citizens have the same healthcare I have enjoyed for 40 years.

HRC is not "opposed to single payer", no less "firmly opposed". Saying that something is not do-able does not equate to being against it. Hillary is simply not making promises she knows can't be delivered.

The GOP have voted over 50 times now to repeal Obamacare. Do you honestly believe they're all going to do an about face and embrace single payer just because Bernie says they should?

Look, if you want to believe that a president Bernie can somehow miraculously deliver single-payer to US citizens, that's your prerogative. But he can't, not with the current make-up of Congress.

ALL of the argument FOR universal healthcare make perfect sense. It IS more economical than private insurance. It also has a positive impact not only on the health of individuals, but on entire communities.

The first thing that has to be done in the US is educating the public about how universal healthcare works - and that will mean undoing the the negative propaganda perpetrated by the Republicans for decades. It also means clearing up the "myths" that many people believe are reality. I am still asked by US friends if my doctor works for the gov't, if a gov't official has to sign-off on any treatment I require, if I am restricted to a doctor the gov't has assigned me to, etc.

I've no doubt that over 90% of Americans would demand universal healthcare - if they all KNEW how it operates. But the vast majority of them don't - and that education isn't going to come about overnight. People hear "higher taxes" and "socialized medicine" - and dismiss the entire idea out-of-hand. They think of the gov't dictating what care they receive and from whom. They picture having to travel miles to see a "gov't-approved" physician they've been assigned to. They imagine bureaucrats making their healthcare decisions for them.

ALL of that has to be overcome. Without that groundwork in place, you're always going to have your own fellow citizens actually fighting AGAINST any move towards real reform out of simple ignorance of the facts.

Right now - aside from all of the above - the current composition of Congress is what it is. And whether HRC or Bernie is elected POTUS, single payer is a losing battle. It's just not going to happen in this political environment.

I've seen it over and over here on DU. When BSers are asked exactly HOW Bernie is going to get single payer passed, the answers become, "Well, uh, well, ya see ..." And saying "Well, at least he'd try" is pointless. With all of the challenges currently facing the nation, having a president who's wasting time tilting at windmills doesn't accomplish anything.

Hillary isn't pushing single payer because she KNOWS that in today's political climate, it's just not a realistic goal - and certainly not one she is going to promise to achieve just because it sounds good on the campaign trail.

Idealism is great. Setting high goals is fantastic. But reality has to be taken into consideration. At some point, you have to say "This is what we can do - so let's get started on doing it".

But as I said, YMMV. If you believe that a president Bernie could magically persuade Republican congress-critters to approve single payer, you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

[flamingdem]

3. Disagree. Anyone for Trump will find Bernie to be an alien species

imo

[californiabernin]

23. There is a lot of voters who are attracted to both...try doing an online search of the subject. n/t

[gwheezie]

4. What would make you assume that?

Or is it a feeling you have? I don't think trump supporters can be swayed. They're sticking with him even after some outlandish trumpisms. Do you think people who agree we need to build a wall, send them all back, ban Muslims and bomb the shit out of them and take the oil would agree with Bernie? I never heard Bernie say anything like that but maybe you know something the rest of us don't.

[californiabernin]

24. Try doing an online search. There is a NYT article and many others. n/t

[Binkie The Clown]

5. Many people are angry and don't know where to channel that anger, and are looking

for somebody different to go in a new direction. For them, anyone who criticizes the system would suit their need for "something different." I agree, because I've seen it happen to people I know, who are drifting away from the RW crazies and toward Bernie.

[Betty Karlson]

6. Very true.

[BlueMTexpat]

7. I believe that you are correct

in your statement that Trump supporters are more likely to be swayed by Bernie than by Hillary. Where we differ is as to "better angels."

I don't believe that the majority of Trump supporters have any "better angels" whatsoever. Trump's supporters are among the nastiest and craziest of the whole GOPer bunch. JMHO

[firebrand80]

10. Fuck Trump's supporters nt

[Recursion]

12. Possibly, but I interpret that very differently than you do (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. As do I ...

Think of a Venn Diagram.

[hrmjustin]

15. Better angels.

[californiabernin]

25. Trump supports want to feel empowered, and so do Sanders supporters.

Hillary doesn't do that for anybody.

[ecstatic]

16. Because most Trump supporters are angry, low information, and drawn to authoritarian

thinking.

[olddots]

26. I have little regard for Trump supporters

although I admit I went to A Monster Truck rally decades ago .