The best leaders inspire sacrifice. The guy running for class president promises free pizza.

[hill2016]

What kind of leader is Bernie? What has he inspired you to sacrifice (other than campaign $$)?

Can he deliver on the free pizza?

[KingFlorez]

1. Don't let your mouth write a check your butt can't cash

Sanders needs to hear that phrase.

[JonLeibowitz]

7. Too bad it's the wrong phrase. At least you tried.

[KingFlorez]

11. And unfortunately for you, it's the truth

Your boy can't deliver even if he did somehow win the presidency. Sorry.

[retrowire]

16. Yes he can actually.

And here's how.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511030951

[tecelote]

56. I'll take 10% of what Bernie promises over 100% of Hillary.

Stay put or move ahead.

Americans want change and, for once, they aren't buying what the media is selling.

What's sad is that honesty and integrity are so rare in our elected officials that Bernie stands out as the only one.

We know he can not deliver free pizza. We don't want pizza. We want our jobs back, we want healthcare that every other industrialized nation can give their citizens. We want our children educated so they can shoot for the stars like the American Dream promises us all. We want an equal America for all Americans. We want change and we deserve it.

We won't get it all and we know that. But, saying "no we can't" won't even get us a free pizza.

We're going to try. It's the best we can do and better than what we have now.

[polly7]

60. ...........

[Health Wagon]

79. This applies very well to Clinton.

[Electric Monk]

2. Wait a sec, weren't you just whining that your taxes might go up a little bit?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1070119

Just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks?

[hill2016]

6. no I was asking about the maths

[Electric Monk]

18. Berniecare savings calculator link

http://berniecare.org/

[randys1]

45. Here is the math in basic terms. For profit health insurance, for profit hospitals and

run amok for profit RX companies are bankrupting Americans and it does NOT have to be that way.

Whether Bernie can get us single payer in his lifetime, maybe not. I dont know.

Are the costs going to be exactly as he now outlines? Maybe not, maybe they will be higher but nothing near what we now pay.

I am starting to think what we need is a czar under our new president, lets say our new prez is Hillary, that czar could be Bernie or some younger version, who would then proceed to resolve this issue as well as education, etc.

I want Bernie to be prez but I will gladly take HIllary if she is willing to go back and be the old Hillary who supported this.

As to younger version, I dont think Bernie cares about glory, I think he just wants it done.

He can do it but he needs help, lots of help.

[morningfog]

28. You can answer all their posts with "weren't you just whining?"

[beam me up scottie]

91. *snerk*

[Matariki]

85. Throwing stuff at the wall for the past couple weeks.

latching on to particular words and after a few days of trying and failing moving on to another

[pangaia]

3. Did you copy and paste this from The Onion?

[morningfog]

29. Or their right wing home page?

[libdem4life]

4. And his opponent bought the pizza joint.

[Fumesucker]

5. Exactly, we need to sacrifice our and our children's dreams in order that Hillary fulfill her dream

[Warren DeMontague]

8. And who is going to pay for Hillary's "manhattan project" to make sure you cant encrypt your iphone?

This guy?

[hill2016]

9. Hillary's manhattan project

is simply a collaboration between the tech industry and the government NOT a way to break encryption.

[VulgarPoet]

21. Horseshit.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/12/hillary-clinton-wants-manhattan-like-project-to-break-encryption/

"It doesn't do anybody any good if terrorists can move toward encrypted communication that no law enforcement agency can break into before or after. There must be some way. I don't know enough about the technology, Martha, to be able to say what it is, but I have a lot of confidence in our tech experts."

Your oligarchy-tested candidate's own words, direct from the liar's mouth. The salient part has even been bolded for you-- in the interests of keeping the scurry terrorists at bay, they want to be able to bust into your phone. Search and seizure be goddamned.

[hill2016]

26. yeah you left out the rest of the article

where it makes it clear she's talking about co-operation and backdoors NOT breaking encryption

"I would hope that, given the extraordinary capacities that the tech community has and the legitimate needs and questions from law enforcement, that there could be a Manhattan-like project, something that would bring the government and the tech communities together to see they're not adversaries, they've got to be partners," Clinton continued. "It doesn't do anybody any good if terrorists can move toward encrypted communication that no law enforcement agency can break into before or after. There must be some way. I don't know enough about the technology, Martha, to be able to say what it is, but I have a lot of confidence in our tech experts."

Clinton added some caveats. "Maybe the back door is the wrong door, and I understand what Apple and others are saying about that," she said. The US also has to "balance liberty and security, privacy and safety." But ultimately, Clinton said she wants tech companies to cooperate with the government. "Otherwise, law enforcement is blind—blind before, blind during, and, unfortunately, in many instances, blind after," she said.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Math doesn't lie.

[VulgarPoet]

39. To which Tim Cook's response is the most salient reason why the tech sector won't comply with this.

"There are intimate conversations with your family, or your co-workers. There's probably business secrets and you should have the ability to protect it. And the only way we know how to do that, is to encrypt it. Why is that? It's because if there's a way to get in, then somebody will find the way in. There have been people that suggest that we should have a back door. But the reality is if you put a back door in, that back door's for everybody, for good guys and bad guys."

If you knew a single thing about the tech sector and how it corresponds to the legal sector, you'd know full well that the only way to force this kind of thing that isn't installing a clandestine back door was found in 2012 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit to be a violation the 5th amendment; not getting into the just as morally egregious use of national security letters by the FBI.

So please, I ask you to enlighten me: how exactly, does one find cooperation with experts telling her what she wants is impossible?

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Right. First off, "manhattan projects" are by definition huge and expensive. Two, "collaboration"

implies a willingness for both parties to work together- The tech industry has been consistent and clear that there is NO mathematical way to create a backdoor or otherwise weaken encryption so that only "good guys" can get in (leaving aside, of course, that every fucking time we are sold a bill of goods about law enforcement needing 'special tools to fight terror' the terror fighting almost immediately goes by the wayside and the special tools are used to go after people like small time drug criminals) so the idea that there is going to be "collaboration" on this- at least, without sticking backdoors in, which is BY DEFINITION breaking encryption- is not just ludicrous, it's flat-out fucking impossible.

And in the meantime, all this authoritarian-appeasing talk about "we must do something about encryption" is damaging the economy, because not just American businesses but our customers overseas have watched these conversations, and they DEPEND on American products and their built in encryption to protect their data against shit like industrial espionage. Fuck, every time you log into your credit card's website, you're using encryption. We WANT encryption to be strong, and we don't want to think that there is a built in weakness waiting for malicious actors to discover and exploit it.

Silicon Valley's resistance to talk from people who clearly don't understand the topic is not just some tech-libertarian philosophical pose, it is a meat and potatoes business decision. Encryption, the math, the concepts, all of it- is out there and it is not going away. Silicon Valley wants to SELL products to the world that the world will reliably believe are genuinely secure and not compromised out of the box.

[hill2016]

37. there could be other avenues

that both sides can explore...

Clinton is point out there must be a middle ground and is calling for collaboration between industry and government.

What about keys that can be revoked and are held in part by different parties (government, manufacturer, escrow body)?

[cali]

49. Fantasy land, pizza seller. Yeah, you and hilly doing what

You accuse Bernie of doing. How cute.

[hill2016]

54. she isn't promising anything...

she's just asking whether there's a way for industry and government to work together.

She doesn't live in unicorn-land you know. She's grounded in facts and reality.

[cali]

57. bullshit. She's made a slew of promises

You seem to feel you're entitled to make up your own faux facts.


You are not.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Promising the FBI that they'll be able to easily search icloud for Snoop Dogg's pictures of weed

that's, like, totally different than promising voters universal health coverage!

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Again, you're not listening to what the people who actually understand this, are saying.

Any backdoor by definition puts vulnerabilities in encryption. And there are no "other avenues". A door that isn't the front door, is a backdoor. It doesn't matter who holds the keys.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151220/08101633141/hillary-clinton-wants-manhattan-project-encryption-not-back-door-that-makes-no-sense.shtml

No, she clearly does not understand what Apple and others are saying about that. Just a week or so ago, she insisted that Apple's complaint about it was that it might lead to the government invading users' privacy, but that's only a part of the concern. The real concern is that backdooring encryption means that everyone is more exposed to everyone, including malicious hackers. You create a backdoor and you open up the ability for malicious hackers from everywhere else to get in.

Also, love him or hate him, the revelations from Ed Snowden have definitively shown that government spying is not some small-time, well contained, only-a-few-people-have very tightly controlled access affair. It is an industrial-size messy bring-in-thousands-of-contractors-deal with all sorts of opportunities for sloppiness.

And lastly, again, I feel it is worth reiterating that every damn time we're sold a bill of goods about "vital special tools to fight terror only to be used in the most extraordinary of circumstances", the authorities turn around and then use it for the same old pedestrian purposes, like arresting people for pot smoking.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/10/patriot-act-warrants-used-more-drugs-terrorism

[Paulie]

92. I remember the last collaboration with the Clintons: Clipper Chips and the key escrow skipjack algo

It was horrible then even more so now.

[winter is coming]

10. The best leaders inspire us to work together to achieve big goals that benefit everyone. n/t

[hill2016]

12. which involves sacrifice on the part of SOMEONE

I don't see him reaching out to those he is asking to pay more.

Isn't that divisive?

[retrowire]

17. You don't see taxing the rich as a sacrifice? nt

[hill2016]

19. I doubt the rich are inspired to pay higher taxes

so no, it's not a sacrifice on their part.

Sacrifice implies a voluntary action.

[retrowire]

32. even Jesus didnt want to die for our sins originally

and so if they pay the taxes, it'll be voluntary because they'll be following new laws.

otherwise, they can just leave.

[hill2016]

42. that's not inspiration

which is my point.

Who is Bernie inspiring to sacrifice?

[Fumesucker]

64. Hillary is inspiring us to sacrifice our own and our children's dreams for her dream

A noble goal indeed, we will be overjoyed to live in a cardboard box under an overpass roasting sparrows on a bent curtain rod so long as it helps Hillary make herstory by being the first woman President.

[retrowire]

66. the people.

There are 1%r's that are for his plan, believe it or not.

People like Nick Hanauer for instance: https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming?language=en

[libdem4life]

35. Fair taxes require the intentions of President Bernie Sanders.

Not starry eyed here --- but the direction needs to change. Raise the SS tax limit to at least $5 million. That's a good start.

[Vinca]

13. Remember the good old days when all of DU was for single-payer???

Now instead of Medicare For All we've got the Republican "free stuff" meme happening.

[hill2016]

20. I'm asking about the maths

Is that wrong?

[Vinca]

22. No. There's another good post on the forum currently that spells it out.

[draa]

44. Funny isn't it.

In one breath they're telling you he can't get anything done while in another they're asking about the taxes. It's so Republican that their necks are turning Red.

[DefenseLawyer]

14. "But I hope people understand this"

"your friends who like Obamacare, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from government tell them to go vote for the other guy — more free stuff." - Mitt Romney- July 11, 2012


Stay classy Clinton fans.

[draa]

47. +1

[WillyT]

15. Oh I Think We've All Sacrificed Enough To The Establishment...

Trillions of dollars redistributed up to the 1%...

Lost jobs...

Lost homes...

Many, many, lives...

Just to name a few.

[farleftlib]

23. oh snap

[nashville_brook]

34. +100000 -- this OP sounds like something Mittens would say.

[wendylaroux]

43. Isn't it awful?

I wonder how they react to homeless people.Hit them
with a rolled up newspaper? Get a job!!

[nashville_brook]

52. oh...don't get me started.

welfare to work ring a bell?

[wendylaroux]

55. Oh yes!

it's a kinder,gentler nation.Incredible.

[Iggy Knorr]

24. ERMAGERD U GUYS PIZZA

[cali]

27. Yikes. You seem bound and determined to embarrass yourself

[cali]

30. Why Mitt, you still slinging around that "free stuff" bullshit?

[JI7]

33. based on your posts it seems like you want Clinton to lose

[TheBlackAdder]

36. The Average American has been sacrificing for 30 years! You just want to roll over and play dead! nt

[draa]

48. -

[TheBlackAdder]

50. I never realized that there are a shit load of Neville Chamberlains in the Democratic Party!

[draa]

53. No shit.

This election opened a lot of eyes. Finally and thankfully.

[DonCoquixote]

38. Sacrifice

Liek the ones the Middle class have been making for the past 30 years? Sacrifice Jobs, sacrifice our children to war, Sacrifice our environment to oil. At that point, I am not fighting for ANY pizza, but rather to deny the idea the banks not only have a right to whatever food I can buy, but the right to starve my nephews and send them to war. The best leaders do inspire sacrifice, but the worst turn the idea of sacrifice into a joke, especially when their donors bristle at any hint of inconvenience, much less sacrifice.

And as far as Hillary, she might be a good leader if she were able to scrape the parasites off her: the Debbies, the Bills, the Rahms, the Mark Penns, but, despite the fact they have led her into many a ditch, she has made it clear that electing her is electing THEM. It would be lovely to see her sacrifice one of those, especially as none of them have any qualms about sacrificing her on their altars.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush also complained about

people ("those people," if you get my drift) wanting "free stuff." It's a familiar meme on the GOP side (not too distantly related to Reagan's welfare moms driving Cadillacs and buying steak with food stamps), but it's sad to see it coming from people who claim to be Democrats.

[daleanime]

41. Will you continue to claim to support his ideas....

but oppose him.

And why is your pizza free? The rest of us have been paying for our entire lives and still haven't got'em any pizza.

[hill2016]

51. and if another politician comes by promising free pizza

do you believe him or are you skeptical about his claims? Will you ask how much the free pizza is going to cost?

[jkbRN]

46. Omg is this supposed to come off as insightful?

...very sad.

Also, I should note that Bernie doesn't lead with sacrifices as HRC does--and is at the core of why I will vote for Bernie. Anyone that says "ohh we can't do this because (insert excuse)" and then starts with a plan that already has compromises (ACA) so we can be pushed further to the right. If you start with an absolute ideal you might end up with something like what HRC starts off with when the republicans get done with it. Plain and simple, she leads with compromises and/or sacrifices--and that is someone I DO NOT want fighting for me.

[Renew Deal]

58. And a soda machine.

[tecelote]

59. I feel sorry for you. That's why they call it "Feel the Bern". You totally miss the point.

Bernie has given us hope. That's worth a lot more than money.

Open up your heart and mind and help us change for a better America.

We don't want free pizza. We don't need to sacrifice. We plan to work hard for the America we were promised and has been stolen from us.

Come on... help us make history. It's inspiring and invigorating.

[sadoldgirl]

61. Well, actually Bernie is asking for a lot of sacrifice.

He is asking all citizens to get directly involved in the
political process, way beyond this election.

That takes a lot of time and effort for many people,
but he seems to be succeeding with it at this point.

[TIME TO PANIC]

62. I know many who will sacrifice voting if Hillary is the nominee.

While I think that would be foolish, it's hard to blame them. This is what happens when you run a center-right democrat in the middle of a populace uprising.

[Cheese Sandwich]

63. Working class people have sacrificed enough. Time for the super-rich to pay their fair share.

Which is a lot more.

[Broward]

65. Inspire sacrifice? Might as well keep moving the Party further right.

Is that how you ended up here?

[H2O Man]

68. You wouldn't understand.

[Odin2005]

70. This is rich coming from the side whining about taxes going up.

[elana i am]

71. i was unemployed for 2 years after a mass layoff

and of course had health problems out the wazoo during the time i was without insurance. i didn't go to the doctor then and i'm paying for it now 5 years later with permanent mobility issues. AND i'm still in debt and living paycheck to paycheck. and there's millions more way worse off than me.

my sacrifice has already been made. i want someone who's gonna at least TRY getting single payer, ending corporate wellfare, putting the banker scum that took my job behind bars...

do you think clinton is going to be the one to make the attempt at these things? if you do then your judgement is as bad as hers.

seriously what the fuck kind of question is this?

[taught_me_patience]

72. Doesn't look like many in this thread are prepared to make any sacrifice by paying more taxes

so, yeah, the free pizza analogy is completely accurate. I think most Dems will see through this on super tuesday.

[Fumesucker]

73. 'Fess up now, you're really a Bernie supporter

I've been wondering for a while and you sealed it and stamped it with this thread.

Awesome satire, you really had me fooled at one point.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. Parody par excellence

[m-lekktor]

84. Ha that is what I said! he is making believe he is a Hillary supporter to make them look bad.

I actually thought of that a few days ago. He is mocking Hillary supporters because i can't believe a real one would be this fucking caricature-esque!

[Autumn]

75. Oh dear. You still clinging to the republican smear that Dems all want "Free Suff"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511061225

You know who else thinks Dems want "free stuff"?

Sounds a lot like Rubio and other pukes after the Democratic debate/.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/256880-rubio-dem-debate-about-free-stuff

"Free college education, free college education for people illegally in this country, free healthcare, free everything."

I think your "free pizza" falls under Rubios "free everything"


And at another link there is Trump, I won't post that one but it's easy to find.

Frontrunner Donald Trump agreed with Rubio, separately live tweeting about how Clinton, Sen. Bernie Sanders, Martin O’Malley, Jim Webb, and Lincoln Chafee spent the entire night discussing all the free stuff they were going to give away, including ObamaCare benefits and tuition breaks for illegal immigrants.

[Armstead]

76. Well at least you didn't use the unicorn and pony analogy

[Mufaddal]

77. Hot take

You should probably write for Slate.

[Motown_Johnny]

78. I thought today's mindless attack was his raising taxes?

Did you miss a memo?

[2pooped2pop]

80. I think we have sacrificed enough

we just want to take the free pizza we've been paying for away from the corporations and 1%. We want our fucking pizza back!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

81. The best leaders inspire, period.

Don't see many people marching for Hillary.

[hill2016]

82. ok

who are the greatest leaders, in your opinion? I bet you I can name something that they inspired other people to sacrifice in order to achieve something.

[Matariki]

83. What are YOU inspired by Clinton to sacrifice?

Other people's children in endless war?

Healthcare that doesn't bankrupt you?
Or your neighbors?

Decent paying jobs because they've been auctioned off to the lowest bidder in horrible trade agreements?

Clean drinking water because fracking and/or an oil pipeline benefits her rich friends?

Fair elections because, well, why bother...?

[ljm2002]

86. OFFS...

...yet another "free stuff" post.

You do realize that the canard about "free stuff" is a perennial favorite of the rabid right wing, yes? And you do realize that, when the population receives value for its taxes, that is actually not "free stuff", yes? Tell me something: when you spend money, do you expect to receive value in exchange? I sure do. Unfortunately, right now, the 99% receive little value while the 1% receive the lion's share of value, both from how taxes are spent and from how taxes are, and are not, raised.

Bernie's supporters are flooding him with their hard-earned cash, sometimes just $10 or $20 at a time (if the average donation is around $30, that means that a lot of donations are less than that). Just because you deem that not a sacrifice on their part, does not make it so.

Apparently, for you, the only sacrifices that count are those that benefit the 1%: i.e., the 99% continue to get less and less from our government, and our infrastructure deteriorates, while the 1% continue to reap greater and greater benefits. In other words, austerity policies for the hoi polloi, while the .01% accumulate unimaginable riches.

Unfortunately for you and your preferred candidate, that is not an inspiring position to take.

[Matariki]

87. when the population receives value for its taxes, that is actually not "free stuff"

That needs to be a meme. A bumper sticker. A repeated thing.

[ljm2002]

89. Thank you...

...I appreciate it!

[SixString]

88. Dupe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026734162

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026699786

[Mother Of Four]

90. Here's a few things he's inspiring us to sacrifice

Right now, my family would lose money under the taxes for single payer -

Guess what? I don't mind losing that money if one other family can also get health care.

Right now my family works for the government -

Guess what? Under Bernie the spending of the military would be curtailed, perhaps putting my husbands position at risk. We're ok to take that risk even if it means him taking a cut, because if our infrastructure is repaired its better for all. If College is affordable, it's better for all. If even a tenth of what he intends happens. It's BETTER FOR ALL.

So yeah, the best leaders inspire sacrifice. If we were greedy "I got mine screw you" people we'd vote for Hillary or a Repub.

Pretty crappy post there Hill2016. Maybe post something positive next time.

[Fronkonsteen]

93. Bernie's not a leader

He's a servant of the people. We desperately need one of those in the oval office.

[GeorgeGist]

94. I think you have a dangerously naive concept of leadership.