2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe attacks I'm seeing here against Bernie and his message are positively Republican in nature.
Making fun of Bernie for promising "free stuff"?
Saying that Bernie went "full Mondale" by promising our taxes would go up??
Warning that Bernie will bring socialism to America, and might secretly sympathize with Communism???
Wow. These are all things Republicans used to say about Democrats. I never thought I'd see these kind of attacks on a Democratic website.
For shame, Hillary supporters, for shame.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)come the holier-than-thou lectures about how rude Sanders supporters are and how we're turning off potential fence sitters. And that Sanders supporters are exactly like the tea-baggers. And about a dozen more ways poor Hillary is getting a bum rap.
The projection is staggering.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,076 posts)... the GOP congress critters have been great at getting nothing much done. I wonder what all their paid for staffers do with their idle time? Point to ponder...
jalan48
(13,862 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)and cognitive dissonance along with extreme arrogance, which is what we saw with Bush supporters years ago. i keep asking Hillary supporters to explain to me why they prefer her. Is it her ties to Monsanto, Wall Street, Walmart, big Pharma, for profit prisons, love of Fracking and NAFTA, eagerness for a war with Iran? Or is it just her gender, and if so, would they support Palin? (One said they did). The only answers I get are either attacks on Bernie or arrogant quips like "I support her because I have a brain!" I'd like to believe that the issues are important to all Democrats, but perhaps some are as much into the whole team identity thing as many Republicans are, and it's all just a big sports game to them.
mythology
(9,527 posts)When did you stop beating your wife? you might get an answer. But instead you use it as an accusatory club and oddly people don't like that.
Perhaps this will help:
Why do you support a candidate that is proposing a vastly underfunded health care plan? Why do you support a candidate who's wife nearly drove a university into bankruptcy with legally questionable accounting and took a golden parachute? Why do you support a candidate who expects the votes of people he has called ideologically bankrupt?
You'd no doubt find that question insulting. That's the thing about being a jerk. It doesn't prompt people to respond to you nicely. It prompts them to be a jerk back. But that would require enough self-reflection to realize that you reap what you sow.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Let's see...
Why do you prefer Hillary?
When did you stop beating your wife?
Nope. Not the same at all.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)I can see a correlation in those comments, after all Hillary is the victim here, it's not like it was her idea to take hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street fat cats, it certainly isn't her fault that she has to resort to attacking Bernie's Progressive single payer plan because she didn't embrace it and run on it first, It's also not her fault that she created a personal email server at her home when she was secstate, so why would anyone think that she wasn't honest and trustworthy?
"LEAVE HILLARY ALONE"
LOL her candidacy is starting to enter it's death throes, after Bernie wins Iowa and NH, and Nevada and South Carolina she will fold up her campaign and go away....
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Way back at the beginning of the primaries this summer, The GOP started saying absurd things (not the things you just said however) about Hillary and in the new Hillary Group, they were clutching pearls and rending garments about the meanie GOP and they hoped poor Hillary was alright. I thought Hillary could take it....
I light heartedly posted this:
And was promptly BANNED!
So today I post this:
green917
(442 posts)His health plan is not underfunded and by every metric, according to a number of economists (i believe the number was 47), will save average working class families thousands of dollars while providing health care for EVERY American.
i don't know the veracity of your story about his wife but his wife isn't running, he is.
Because he has a long standing history of actually supporting progressive policies and politicians. If he's questioned the ideological sincerity of members of the party at times, well, i agree with him...congressional democrats voting for conservative policies (ie- fisa court expansion, signing off on extraordinary rendition and water boarding, the vote for the aumf,etc) have done we, their supporters, no favors.
So, i answered your questions...how about you answer the one posited in the op (with specifics mind you): why do you support secretary clinton?
and, i for one, appreciate the opportunity to answer that question in regards to my support for senator sanders. The fact that you think it being asked of you makes the original poster a "jerk" is telling in its own right.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)It's just like a religion!
Yikes!
Broward
(1,976 posts)The masks are finally coming off.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)are also masquerading as bernites with some of the nasty responses against hillary - all to discredit bernie supporters as being mean and nasty.
it's a typical "rovian" tactic these days to disparage a movement for the very things they represent - adapted to online forums of free speech.
in this case, bernie is known for his integrity and commitment to social justice issues. so, disruptors are sent in to prove otherwise. think back to the peaceful marches for civil rights and the union movement after the depression, hungry people in bread lines. disruptors are sent in acting as though they are in unity with the crowd - then they start shouting epithets to arouse the crowd - or shoot off a weapon, or pull out some other weapon and feign attacking law enforcement. all to discredit the people exercising their right peaceful assembly and free speech to end in violence.
again, disruptors masquerade as members of peaceful revolutionary activities - protests, town halls, forums, marches, etc., to push people around and get the crowd stirred up so they can later show how horrible the peaceful revolutionaries appear while protecting themselves.
what we can do is not allow the disruptors/trolls the space to be nasty by recognizing their intent and ignoring them. they will go away and go somewhere else. there is nothing a troll hates more than to be ignored.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)you just howl and whine incessantly about mean Bernie supporters and you play the victim so who knows where you stand on the issues!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)for profit prisons, Wall Street corruption, and a war with Iran? Do any of those things matter to you/ How about climate change and a living wage? Or is it all about "the team"?
Lorien
(31,935 posts)as expected.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Wars started under your candidate's orders in Syria and Libya? The four soldiers killed because she is incompetent enough to ignore clear warnings from people in her staff? The families she lied to in the process? Et cetera, et cetera, could go on about Special Access Program emails but really, I'm kind of sick of the constant rationalizations for why we should accept more of the same.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am all for wall street reform. I am for a 15 dollar minimum wage and against keystone pipline. I am for diplomacy with Iran and prison for profits sounds like a racket to me. I have no opinion on Monsanto.
Good enough?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)If you are FOR the issues you listed,
WHY are you supporting Hillary?
She OPPOSES you on every single one.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)And I don't think Sanders can or should win.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)You said you are:
*against NAFTA and the TPP. Hillary and the Republicans support both. Bernie does not
*for Wall Street Reform. Big topic, but if you are for REAL reform instead of Kabuki non-reform
you wouldn't be supporting the Wall Street candidate. You woulds support the candidate that proposes the re-instatement of an improved Glass-Steagall, and wants to pass a small tax on
high speed trading that will pay for our schools. Hillary opposes these changes.
*Hillary OPPOSES the $15 min wage. She thinks that $12 is enough for the peasants.
*Hillary takes money from the Private Prison Industry, and has never spoken against them. Bernie has.
Do these issues really matter to you?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sometimes you take money from the devil to get elected president.
And yes I care.
There is no way I will support Sanders in the primary.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)just like Obama was going to "immediately re-negotiate NAFTA to protect American jobs".
I guess he forgot, and Hillary will "forget" too.
She helped design, write, and Lobbied for this Deal with the Devil (The TPP).
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)Lie to me once, and it will take a LONG time of Truth telling to heal the rift. I will probably never fully believe anyone once they LIE to me, and especially anyone who sends their own daughter out in front of the World to lie for them.
If you can find the Red Queen, you win $20!
Hey, you weren't watching. Watch closer and you are SURE to win THIS time. Just ante up another $20
Aww. Lost again OK. I'll make it easy. The odds are in your favor THIS time, so plop down another $20,
and we will go Double or Nothing. All you have to do is pick the red queen,and win your money back.
Gosh, lost again, but if you believe you are just having a bad day,
try again. Keep believing. We can do this for as long as your money holds out.
Keep Believing.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Its been fun!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)post removed. And if no one answers it, then that means no one thinks you are a Republican troll.
If you were a Republican troll, which I'm sure you will say you are not, then that's a win/win for you.
If you are not a Republican troll, we will never know really because the only possible answer to your post that can remain on DU is one that says you are not a Republican troll.
So, we will never know whether you are or are not.
Proving a negative is said to be difficult. In this case, just responding in the positive would get the person responding's post removed from DU.
I have no idea whether you are a Republican troll or not. Only you know. But your post is certainly troubling because it can only be answered negatively, but that does not mean that the only correct answer is negative.
Hmmmmmm!
Interesting puzzle. Assuming you are a Republican troll (which as I said, I'm sure you will deny), then how can a person answer your post honestly without getting the answer removed from DU. Very interesting indeed.
Perhaps the answer to the puzzle is to point out the conundrum you place anyone who thinks you are a Republican troll in if they want to answer your post so as to express their honest opinion.
So I will opt and say that I don't know whether you are a Republican troll or not.
Seems like the safest answer. True or false, I do not know.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)Instead, you post an emoji to heckle someone else.
Those issues SHOULD matter to all Democrats.
Your choice to remain silent on issues and condescend instead does not reflect well.
Are you here to discuss issues or are you here to troll. That is now a pertinent question.
Your future response to Lorien's post will reveal the answer.
OxQQme
(2,550 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Because the future leadership of the country, and where they stand on important issues, is such a laughing matter.
This tactic reminds me of those MSM news network interviews with one more liberal guest and one Republican guest, where, while the liberal guest is speaking about traditional Democratic values being threatened by those the other guest represents, all you see and hear is them laughing..pretending its all a big joke. Its all they got. So just so you know, that's all I and probably many other see when your ilk relies on some overused animated icon to replace any thought out response to a question.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)You obviously refused to respond to issues. Instead, you drop "what is my ilk?"
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
I have read many of your entries over time, especially in the Religion group. I thought you had heartfelt opinions. I thought better of you. This thread has me wondering though. Either step up and answer Lorien, or be a typical one-sided DU simpleton that deserves to be Ignored because you can't put forth a legitimate opinion.
What IS your ilk?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)"I thought better of you. This thread has me wondering though"
Honestly it doesn't bother me and i can't say I ghought of you before this post.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)It's a semantic conundrum, akin to quantum physics, we can call it "Schroedinger's Scat"
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)An entire laundry list of attacks on the legacy of Bill Clinton. It read like it was straight from the desk of Richard Mellon Scaife.
Juanita Broderick was brought up, for Christ's sake. It stopped short of repeating the Vince Foster Murder accusations, thankfully.
As a neutral at this point, the shit is being flung from both sides, but the butthurt seems strongest from Sander's partisans.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)true bernie sanders supporters don't care about bill's infidelities.
running the country is not about christian values. it's about humane values of justice for all - not just the 1%:
jobs;
ending poverty;
ending the mass incarceration in private prisons of a majority of people who are either black, brown, or red;
increasing the middle class and opportunities for the middle class;
more jobs on american soil with products made in the usa and not sent overseas;
saving our younger generations from endless wars perpetuated by the war machines on foreign soil for foreign and corporate interests;
a higher minimum wage;
a greener economy and environmental standards;
tolerance and equal opportunity for all walks of life, and not tolerating bigotry and racism;
health care as a right for all;
a tuition free secondary education;
fortifying our infrastructure and rebuilding or replacing where necessary;
breaking up the big banks, making sure wall street no longer has the power to spiral us into another depression, etc..
and yes, we do care about where hillary stands around the tpp and jobs for the middle class, a living wage, higher taxes for corporations & the 1% - and disrupting true progress for our country by maintaining the status quo.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Or progressive.
They are CONSERVATIVES.
Bryce Butler
(338 posts)Those are conservative arguments. Period. I don't care if they call themselves liberal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1072742
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Attacking Clinton supporters as conservatives. Attacking the ideas as right wing is fine, but painting a broad stroke and insulting Clinton supporters as Conservatives is going too far.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:59 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Really? Addressing ideas. That's what we do on DU. Whether we agree or not.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not worthy of a hide.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Waste of an alert.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The swarm is slipping.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)I don't remember 2004 being this bad but then most of the right wing attack dogs were with Bush and Cheney.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)they complain bitterly that DU is stacked with Bernie supporters, so of course the jury results are so unfair!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)I think of the swarm as genetically modified, Third Way Democrats - not good for children and other living things - just like Monsanto.
http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/04/26/hillary-clinton-hires-former-monsanto-lobbyist-to-run-her-campaign/
Hillary Clinton Hires Former Monsanto Lobbyist to Run Her Campaign
Hillary Clinton recently announced that she will be appointing long-time Monsanto lobbyist Jerry Crawford as adviser to her Ready for Hillary super PAC.
Crawford has mostly worked with Democratic politicians in the past, but has also put his support behind Republican candidates as well. Anyone who was willing to support Monsantos goals would receive support from Crawford.
In 2014, Clinton was paid to speak at the Biotechnology Industry Organization where she openly expressed her support for GMO crops.
In her speech, she said that I stand in favor of using seeds and products that have a proven track record .And to continue to try to make the case for those who are skeptical that they may not know what theyre eating already. The question of genetically modified food or hybrids has gone on for many many years. And there is again a big gap between what the facts are and what perceptions are.
Response to reformist2 (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
amborin
(16,631 posts)my husband has the program on and Matthews is rabidly angry and
attacking Rep. Bamberg; ghastly to see
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)This should surprise no one.
Tweety is a dickhead, to put it bluntly.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)The MSNBC host, who infamously said that one of Barack Obama's campaign speeches sent a "thrill up his leg
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)With his Mission Accomplished BS:
Chris Matthews on MSNBC called Bush a hero and boomed, He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics. He added: Women like a guy whos president. Check it out. The women like this war. I think we like having a hero as our president. Its simple."
http://www.thenation.com/article/ten-years-ago-bush-declared-mission-accomplished-and-media-swooned/
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)PatrickforO
(14,571 posts)and VERY MUCH a member of the establishment. So it's not exactly hardball unless you're Bernie.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)First they ignore you . . . .
Tweety is one of those least aware of the deep anger in the country. He probably doesn't even shine his own shoes any more.
He is a real loss.
But he stays on and on and on endlessly on MSNBC because he toes the line of the big bosses while pretending to be liberal. What a clown.
Ah for the good old days when Ed Schultz was on MSNBC and had Bernie as a guest.
If you want to do something good for America, drop your cable subscription. It's not worth it.
You can only watch one program at a time. You can get a ROKU box or hook up a cable to your TV, subscribe to a service that has the shows you like and avoid paying for Fox News and the rest of the right-wing propaganda machine. It saves you money and it works very well.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)Just this week I dropped DirectTV. One month at $89.00?? I don't think so. So many other ways to spend that money. Or not.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)platform. What an idiot. As a black woman, I was embarrassed for him. The fact that he's a SC lawmaker and is endorsing a candidate whose platform he knows nothing about is disheartening. For the record, he had just endorsed Clinton a couple of weeks ago. Obviously this guy's endorsement is for sale to highest bidder, thou I don't know who would care that that he's Travon Martin's Mother's lawyer.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)world wide wally
(21,742 posts)We will end up blowing this election to some clown ass Republican
INdemo
(6,994 posts)all these right wing attack dogs out there if Bernie and Hillary were tied or if Bernie was only 1 point ahead...His lead (as someone said earlier) must be much larger and thus the attacks..
The Hillary operatives have seemed to turn the heat up her on DU too.
CNN MSNBC are all using these little tid bits against Bernie and taking his statements out of context.
Does that sound like a dead even race....
So then what happens with Hillary she takes off for a fund raiser and flips the Iowa voters the bird....
Go Bernie !!!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)are loony left "extremists."
Also, because we're not falling in line with what DWS and the DNC are trying to shove down our throats it is a case of mutiny! Yes, that word was used.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)I don't see critical thinking in that campaign, only a bag of tricks. Like her hilarious defense of the rapist. A lifetime of practicing the art of distorting truth for personal gain.
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)We are eating our own. Neither side has any of right to act aggrieved or to point fingers.
Both are at fault.
That's what is shameful.
Proserpina
(2,352 posts)Take your own advice, if you can't stand the heat.
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Yet she does not speak to ANY of the issues that are troubling ordinary people, especially seniors and young people in our country.
She does not have a viable or progressive platform. She is a conservative pretending to be a liberal.
We want Bernie. The DNC wants Hillary. Let the people speak without being discouraged by the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the inept and incapable Democrats in the House and Senate.
TPP is going to be the last straw for Democrats. We do not want it. It will ruin our economy and deeply divide our country. But Hillary -- her "objections" to the TPP are shallow and will dissolve into thin air the minute she is able to click her fingers and declare that all her doubts have been assuaged and she is backing that horrible trade agreement.
NAFTA has ruined the American economy. And on top of it just to insure the impoverishment of ordinary Americans, Bill Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the so-called "reform" of the commodity futures market.
To top off the devastation the Clintons have brought to our country, Hillary voted for the Iraq War Resolution and then, as Secretary of State, played a role in fostering turmoil in Libya and Syria.
Getting rid of Gaddhaffi and fighting Assad sound like good ideas until you, as Bernie did in Iraq, ask what will happen once they are gone. Hillary is not far-sighted or visionary enough to be president.
All her past little jobs do not equal wisdom. Bernie has the experience and the wisdom.
Hillary was elected twice and has no wisdom whatsoever.
We do not like being told how to vote and what to think by the DNC. They are trying to throw the election for Hillary. She is not qualified to be president.
amborin
(16,631 posts)And, speaking of Gaddhaffi and Assad....she's a total warmongering neocon. She pushed Obama to topple Gaddhaffi. For his billions in sovereign funds? And urged Obama to topple Assad. The NY Times had a good Sunday article saying what we all know: Saudi Arabia has been using the US as its mercenary in the ME to topple Shiite leaders and strengthen its power in the region. SA funds and promotes Wahhabism and terrorism and we are complicit.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I keep seeing things like:
"She's the most qualified candidate we've ever had!"
Which is absurd. The only office she's ever been elected to was NY Senator. First Lady and SoS were handed to her. Has she done anything stellar in any of these positions? I mean, she's not a complete incompetent, but is she just the greatest? I don't think so. Her Healthcare Plan in the 90s, she lost the last primary..... she's just not so invincible and amazing. It's like Oprah or something. Just what is so great?
There are starry eyed idealists on both sides, but I think many more on Hillary's. It stems from that initial "it's her turn" attitude, I think. Sanders is not perfect. But he has goals worth reaching for and maybe even attaining! Clinton (even sounds old fashion..... so 20th century!) really is the "No We Can't" candidate. Really.... "let's just tread water for another 4 years" is the feeling I get from her. Her supporters are like cultists sometimes.
In the most realistic grounded bare sense, Sanders can certainly do no worse than Clinton, and most likely better. There is not an irrational hatred and long list of baggage associated with Sanders. I think he has a better chance of working with conservatives. His goals are ambitious but just reaching for them will make things better.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)they'll fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo and continue their consolidation of wealth at the very top while bleeding the rest of us dry. It will get uglier, there's no doubt about that!
Response to TimeToGo (Reply #15)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)If you look closely there's a rather revealing difference between those two terms...
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I think it's everywhere.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)what the DLC and the New Democrats did to the party.
The issues are not important, because they see this
primary as a war. Thus: "Everything is fair......."
Duval
(4,280 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)"no one is going to tear apart what the Clinton organization started 24 or 25 years ago" or even 30years ).The DLC is gone but it has merged with the DNC.
So when a DNC leader and a former DNC leader challenge the voters and challenge all Democratic Progressive voters and
say "if you try and break up our Corporatist Party and our Corporate Bond we have with the owners of our Party we will run an Independent Billionaire against you if that is what it will take to keep our bond intact with Corporate America and Wall ST".
And there are Democrats or people that call themselves Democrats out there yelling "Hell ya."
What strikes me as funny is I watched some of the interview with a Clinton senior advisor and she was talking about all of Hillary's programs she is offering and again giving her web site address to find out details knowing there are no details but talking about all the great things she will do....And it was the same script she used just a few days earlier.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)With regard to the economy, her solution is growth. But we have had growth and almost all of it went to the richest of the richest in our country.
So growth is not an answer to the economic survival of average Americans.
Hillary is oblivious to this fact.
She doesn't listen to Bernie.
Fact is she would have been smart to simply agree with Bernie on everything. Because Bernie is right on everything and she has these trumped up, artificially concocted statements that pass in her mind as policy ideas, and she needs help arriving at and expressing real policies.
Bernie blindsided everyone by running strictly on the issues.
Hillary doesn't know how to campaign on the issues. Her ideas on the issues are flimsy and not worth much.
Fell the Bern!
Bernie is the best candidate ever.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)Bill has already admitted that.
Hillary thought she would coast right into the nomination and all that money would be used to coast into the White House.
I don't think their ground game is that great because it was put together in a huge panic and they were certainly not
expecting Bernie Sanders to raise so much money so fast..
So Bernie Sanders campaign has caught everyone off guard even the corporate media.
Go Bernie !!!!
salib
(2,116 posts)So, it has to be from the right. And, unless really subtle, it will just reflect right wing talking points.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)calling themselves Liberals, Progressives, even Democrats!
They are DINOs!
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)(And note my use the Spartan "if" here) then they can have the term democrat. To me, democrats were people I was supposed to believe could change things. If all they're good for is toeing the line and maintaining the status quo, then it's time for me to find a new party to align with, along with the knowledge that I won't see anything else that matters to me about this nation change in my lifetime.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)is poster claiming to be a Bernie supporter while putting up post after post criticizing Bernie and pumping up Hillary. I guess he/she assumed we'd be too stupid to notice.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)and -- unlike Reagan -- honest about the need to raise taxes?
I loved Mondale and McGovern. Unfortunately, these great men and true progressives both lost 49 states to one.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)his leadership? You really think we're stupid.
I'm never going to forget this week. It really burns.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)unlike many of his supporters, lived through the candidacies of Walter Mondale and George McGovern, true progressives who lost 49 states apiece.
That's when most Democrats -- but not Bernie -- learned the bitter lesson that the American public doesn't respond to campaigns based on higher taxes for the middle class, no matter what benefits are promised.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)full Arkansas Project against Hillary.
For shame, Bernie supporters, for shame.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)They accused her of murder?
Do post that clip!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Is a Republican? You guys are looking foolish and sounding like freepers. Your intolerance of those who disagree with you is very undemocratic as a matter of fact
retrowire
(10,345 posts)It said the comments about Bernie are Republican in nature. Nowhere did it say if you disagree with Bernie, you're a Republican.
Wow.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I was Juror #4 and my comment serves as my reply to your post.
On Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:43 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
So anybody that doesn't buy Bernies pie in the sky proposals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073079
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Calling Bernie Supporters freepers? The OP never said that people who disagree with Bernie are republicans. This insult is out of line.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:59 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Did not call Sanders supporters freepers. The alerter said, 'Sounds like' which is a fair accusation if your comments are similar to said group. There has been a lot of outrageous claims and accusations made, this one doesn't even rise to being out of bounds during non-primary season.
Try arguing against the assertion made by the poster instead of running to the alert button
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think this wins the prize for the stupidest post that I've ever voted to leave alone. Clinton supporters have indeed made Republicanesque attacks on Sanders (and have also exhibited an astonishing intolerance of people who disagree with them, astonishing considering they're so sure that Clinton will be the nominee and will therefore want our help in November). I also agree with retrowire's response to the alerted post. Nevertheless, I don't quite see a personal attack. The alerted post says that Sanders supporters are sounding like freepers, which is open to the reasonable interpretation that it's an attack on their comments rather than an attack on them personally (rather than outright calling them freepers as the alerter charges). My jury philosophy is to leave it alone if there's *a* reasonable interpretation under which it squeaks through.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing outside TOS. Use Reply instead of Alert.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)If Bernie is the nominee, he will be eviscerated by the Republicans. He desperately needs to toughen up his arguments. So you should regard any friendly incoming fire as more of a proving ground. It's actually doing him a favor to subject his ideas and arguments to rigorous scrutiny and extreme stress testing in the primaries, rather than waiting until the general election.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)They are unrealistically flawed. AND they have no shot of passing.
When Bernie proposes an 8% tax to pay for medicare for all, while Germany pays the equivalent of 15%.. then, yeah.. I'm going to criticize it like Krugman and Klein. When you propose free college because it benefits society, but only the rich pay for it. Then you are proposing free pizza. How about this for a liberal values... everybody benefits, so every contributes.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)candidate will do or say anything to achieve that 40 year old goal.
I'm not so sure if Hillary's campaign is a 2nd try for the Democratic nomination or her 2nd try for a Third Term for President.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,112 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)I never thought I'd see Obama called a piece-of-shit used car salesman, a Manchurian candidate, a Trojan Horse, a corporatist sell-out, Republican-lite, a shill for the 1%, a water-carrier for the GOP, etc. - and yet all of those things, and worse, have been posted here.
I never thought I'd see Planned Parenthood targeted for being part of the dreaded "establishment", or see a civil rights icon like John Lewis thrown under the bus because he had the gall to endorse a candidate other than Bernie.
In fact, I never thought I'd see every Democrat, every group, every organization, every union who has chosen to support HRC rather than Bernie thrown under that same bus - and yet it's now a daily occurrence here.
There isn't a "Republican in nature" attack that has not been leveled against Democrats on this site - even to the point of posting articles and/or statements from RW authors, bloggers, and publications to make the point.
So if you're suddenly appalled by Republican talking points being used against Democrats on DU, you've apparently missed the boat that sailed a very long time ago.
world wide wally
(21,742 posts)to tear down the other one.
Gee, guess who this works out for come the GE.
PatrickforO
(14,571 posts)Say, what's THAT?
Why, it's a giant RAT!
/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20140222231856
I wonder what it will try to do to Bernie?
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Now that he is getting attention and you want to blame it on Clinton supporters?
You are way behind the curve...
This is what Clinton has been getting for years...
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Who are cool with gay people, less uptight about weed, and slightly less hyocritica about religion. I replied to an absurd criticism of Sanders' stance on reparations yesterday. The poster claimed that was a deal-breaker for him I guess I forgot when Clinton (or any other presidential candidate, including, Obama, supported reparations. I mean really.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It seems like it goes both ways. Would you agree?
rpannier
(24,329 posts)Meaningless reply
Considering people have been bringing up Whitewater, Vince Foster, etc
Those are pretty Republican talking points
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)rpannier
(24,329 posts)Return to your bubble and have a nice day
maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)slinging about "corporatist", "corrupt", "hawk", "warmonger", & attacking Bill Clinton's presidency as no different than a Republican Administration.
Its very off-putting for someone trying to get enthused about voting for a 75 year old.
mac2766
(658 posts)I mean ignore'em.
Bernie WILL win the primaries, and will easily win the general election. He will be our next president.
It's hard to be a loser. People sometimes lose. We can't all get a trophy or blue ribbon. Someone has to lose in the primary... and again in the general.
There are sore losers among us. It's as simple as that.
forest444
(5,902 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)forest444
(5,902 posts)I'd be especially suspicious if, should Bernie in fact win, we start seeing a lot of Hillary supporters openly call on fellow Democrats to stay home.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)forest444
(5,902 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They were willing to vote Republican to keep him out of the White House.
P.U.M.A. = Party Unity My Ass.
forest444
(5,902 posts)I suspect history might repeat itself this year.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)They were fanatical Hillary supporters who refused to vote for Obama in the GE.
forest444
(5,902 posts)Spitfire informed me that in some quarters, it also meant 'Party Unity My Ass'.
Hmm. They might be singing the same tune this year.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)There are far too many commonalities for that not to be the case.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)Allowing trolls to manipulate you to anger, desperation, etc. is a sure sign you lack the maturity to spend time on online political message boards.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)what is.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)Ahhh, this place has no sense of irony. After the vicious posts against Hillary, many using RW talking points and links, you're upset about what some of Hillary's supporters have posted?
Wow.......
betsuni
(25,475 posts)and vicious insults about Hillary personally (not policy) they are scolded as being too thin-skinned and to get out of the kitchen if it's too hot and so on. Talk about an irony deficiency.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Every right wing nook and cranny has been cleared in hopes of finding something to stick to Hillary and derail her campaign.
She's already won those fights.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Yesterday, there was an OP about whether anyone wanted Bill back in the WH. It's the same crap one can read on any RW site. At this point, I just read GDP for the laughs.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)because that's all I have left to describe this nonsense.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Most of the bashing on this site has been Hillary-bashing by Sanders supporters. It has been relentless. I can't remember too many threads that attacked Sanders or O'Malley, let alone attacked them viciously.
I've also heard a lot about how Hillary was the inevitable nominee--always from Sanders supporters when belittling her. I can't remember one single post by a Clinton supporter--or comment by Clinton herself--that ever suggested that she saw herself that way or that we saw her that way.
Scruffy1
(3,256 posts)Besides which, electoral politics is not for the tin skinned.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)are elephants in donkey skin.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Bernie supporters are going to whine about attacks that are Republican in nature? After dragging out every fucking Republican attack on the Clintons to DU, INCLUDING VINCE FOSTER? That takes some serious chutzpah.
What a joke.
onecaliberal
(32,850 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)A campaign run by the owner of one of the biggest corporate lobbying firms in DC is acting "Republican" .
Gotsta pay da bills after all.
Kermitt Gribble
(1,855 posts)It's shameful. I always thought supporting Party or personality over principal was mostly a republican trait - I was wrong.
Highway61
(2,568 posts)A lot of those people with "strong" ties absolutely have their minds made up. They are not willing to listen to reason or compromise and have this strong urge to win at all costs. Me? The truth usually prevails in the end. In the interim, put them in the rear view mirror and don't let anyone live rent free in your head. That's what they want.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)he needs to get used to them and learn to handle them, so what's the problem?
Vinca
(50,269 posts)so chances are they really are Republicans.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Obama said he would be to the right of Reagan, and Hillary touts herself as Obama 3.0,not surprising.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)I don't know what you're seeing. I've moved my position from strong Hillary, weak Bernie to strong Hillary, strong Bernie.
I've read shit on here criticizing the way she dresses, the way she talks, how she moves her arms - the hatred towards her from so-called progessives is chilling. I have to wonder where it's coming from? And what the motive is?
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Yes, presenting "free stuff" as negative is a standard Republican framing. No argument here.
No, comparing Sanders to Mondale is entirely legitimate (although he's a lot further left than Mondale was). And the very substantial middle-class tax rises that would be needed to pay for his health-care "plan" are one of the reasons he'd be very unlikely to win an election, so it's entirely legitimate to highlight them.
And mostly no, there's nothing underhanded about pointing out that a man who's spent the last however many years running for office as a socialist might well try to bring socialism to America if elected, which is another reason he'd be very unlikely indeed to win an election. But it is dishonest to suggest that he might sympathise with communism, so part marks here.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)while they were dumping US goods for communist China goods?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Disgusting. And they have the gall to ask for loyalty oaths.
.
840high
(17,196 posts)a "crusty old Jew" - thank God action was taken.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Yes...agree.
Sorry I missed this yesterday.
condoleeza
(814 posts)Bill USA
(6,436 posts)I mad that statement in Oct 2015 (not that it was so clever. anybody could see it) - and BS supporters had it hidden. BS supporters have as much toleration for differing opinions as the Ayatollah Komenei.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=652629
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Single payer should be the goal of every Democratic candidate for office. The Democratic Party rank and file overwhelmingly support single payer. The wishes of the people should come first.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)DJ13
(23,671 posts)The Bush administration caused a huge rift in the GOP, forcing conservatives interested in political power to become Democrats to avoid the stigma Bush/Cheney left behind in their wake.
Its a situation that the DLC/Third Way was created to take advantage of.