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Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:52 PM

 

Why do Bernie/his supporters get to decide what a Democrat stands for?

I support Clinton's promise not to raise taxes for middle class folks who earn less than $250k. So did Obama.

This seems to be mainstream Democratic Party platform.

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Reply Why do Bernie/his supporters get to decide what a Democrat stands for? (Original post)
hill2016 Jan 2016 OP
last1standing Jan 2016 #1
cheapdate Jan 2016 #19
merrily Jan 2016 #56
cheapdate Jan 2016 #64
merrily Jan 2016 #66
cheapdate Jan 2016 #68
persuadable Jan 2016 #36
saltpoint Jan 2016 #2
pangaia Jan 2016 #101
mcar Jan 2016 #3
merrily Jan 2016 #58
mcar Jan 2016 #63
merrily Jan 2016 #70
mcar Jan 2016 #75
merrily Jan 2016 #105
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #4
hill2016 Jan 2016 #7
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #14
hill2016 Jan 2016 #22
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #31
hill2016 Jan 2016 #38
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #46
Ron Green Jan 2016 #50
arcane1 Jan 2016 #76
GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #89
Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #16
guillaumeb Jan 2016 #20
merrily Jan 2016 #59
Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #5
restorefreedom Jan 2016 #6
hill2016 Jan 2016 #10
Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #25
hill2016 Jan 2016 #39
Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #54
restorefreedom Jan 2016 #41
cascadiance Jan 2016 #49
sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #8
Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #9
Matariki Jan 2016 #15
NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #44
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #35
hrmjustin Jan 2016 #11
Number23 Jan 2016 #83
2pooped2pop Jan 2016 #12
Matariki Jan 2016 #13
MissDeeds Jan 2016 #18
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #17
Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #24
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #26
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #28
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #47
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #53
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #80
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #84
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #93
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #96
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #97
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #98
Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #99
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #55
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #57
7wo7rees Jan 2016 #21
Bobbie Jo Jan 2016 #29
7wo7rees Jan 2016 #33
Bobbie Jo Jan 2016 #42
Kalidurga Jan 2016 #104
lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #23
morningfog Jan 2016 #27
hill2016 Jan 2016 #30
morningfog Jan 2016 #34
hill2016 Jan 2016 #40
morningfog Jan 2016 #43
VulgarPoet Jan 2016 #90
merrily Jan 2016 #32
neverforget Jan 2016 #37
Proud Public Servant Jan 2016 #45
PoliticAverse Jan 2016 #48
WillyT Jan 2016 #51
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #62
WillyT Jan 2016 #67
catnhatnh Jan 2016 #73
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #74
jillan Jan 2016 #102
Efilroft Sul Jan 2016 #52
Hoyt Jan 2016 #60
Efilroft Sul Jan 2016 #61
Hoyt Jan 2016 #65
TheProgressive Jan 2016 #69
SidDithers Jan 2016 #71
DavidDvorkin Jan 2016 #72
Armymedic88 Jan 2016 #77
FreakinDJ Jan 2016 #78
RichVRichV Jan 2016 #79
HassleCat Jan 2016 #81
R B Garr Jan 2016 #82
NurseJackie Jan 2016 #88
Kentonio Jan 2016 #85
Fearless Jan 2016 #86
leftynyc Jan 2016 #87
NCTraveler Jan 2016 #91
Vinca Jan 2016 #92
whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #94
democrank Jan 2016 #95
Autumn Jan 2016 #100
whatthehey Jan 2016 #103
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #106

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:54 PM

1. Because the repubs have already claimed most of NoHope Hillary's policies.

n/t

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Response to last1standing (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:06 PM

19. CrazyPants Sander's policies are very different from NoHope Hillary's. n/t

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:40 PM

56. Another Sanders supporter heard from!

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Response to merrily (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:58 PM

64. Yep. I respect him for his ideas

and for his ability to draw sharp contrasts without slinging mud.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:03 PM

66. IIRC, you said he was your choice to win this primary.

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Response to merrily (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:05 PM

68. You are correct. He's been my choice from the beginning.

For reasons which I've elaborated on many times before.

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Response to last1standing (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM

36. Isn't that what the Sanders campaign is really about

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:54 PM

2. Because we have better

music collections.

That's an easy one.

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Response to saltpoint (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:38 PM

101. RIGHT ON, DUDE !!!

The truth always stings...

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:55 PM

3. The no true Scotsman fallacy

is alive and well on DU.

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:41 PM

58. From both Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters.

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Response to merrily (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:58 PM

63. Links to HRC supporters stating that

those who don't support their candidate are not "real" Democrats?

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Response to mcar (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:12 PM

70. Who said the No True Scotsman fallacy applies only to supporters? There have been many threads and

posts saying flat out that Bernie was not a Democrat. In this post downthread, I linked to one from a currect http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073049

And here's another post from today, strongly implying many Bernie supporters on this board are not really Democrats. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1072570

I happen to know how to find these because I was involved with them just today. I've seen many others in past months and find it odd that someone who is familiar with the board would need links to know that. In any event, I am pretty good at internet searches. However, I can't imagine what terms I could search DU for that would not yield thousands of irrelevant hits. Bernie supporter? Hillary supporter? real Democrat? Without a poster's name and an approximate date, I don't see finding what you're asking as a five minute task and I'm not willing to spend much more than that. But, you have one of each from today alone.

I suspect you'll do with them what everyone else does who asks for links.

Just went to latest threads and saw this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511073335

eta: We're right wingers, we're no different from right wingers, we're "left libertarians," we're racists; we're sexists; we're everything evil that is, or ever was, under the sun.

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Response to merrily (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:21 PM

75. Your examples are not the fallacy I was referencing

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Response to mcar (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 07:54 AM

105. You mentioned "not real ("true") Democrats." My links were indeed relevant to that.

If you don't think so, you'll have to be specific.

The posts to which I linked you were those of Hillary supporters saying Bernie was not a real Democrat or his supporters are not real Democrats. Those are the links that you requested.

BTW, I am familiar with the no true Scotsman fallacy, but knowing what it is does not help me know why you think the links that I provided were not what you requested.

This is an example of why I seldom provide links anymore when Hillary supporters ask for them.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:56 PM

4. More taxes means

 

Better take home pay and better health care for everyone.

H is against better health care for everyone, therefore is anti-democratic.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM

7. Can everyone really have better health care under single payer?

 

What if somebody now has a Cadillac insurance plan and is now forced to go onto a "Medicare for all" plan which a doctor might not accept?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:03 PM

14. You pay more for a cadillac

 

Bernie won't stop that. But with a reformed health care industry even the cadillac plan will cost less. And if a doctor refuses the single payer concept he will soon be out of practice.

I get you hate the idea of better health care for poor people, heck that's an H policy, but really, why shout it out here?

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:07 PM

22. not really

 

I'm sure there are lots of doctors who would be happy to stay out of the single payer system and lots of (rich) patients who are willing to pay cash.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:16 PM

31. Lots of rich patients?

 

You mean like the Clintons?

That is a small pie. Besides I bet the Clintons have gotten lots of free government health care.

I just don't get why anyone would actively shoot down better health care for everyone, but there you are.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM

38. I'm just saying

 

there are two contradictory promises that Sanders make:

(1) The entire system saves money
(2) Everybody gets better coverage (same access to doctors, no co-pay, no deductibles, all drugs/procedures covered)

Hence he isn't being honest.

If you try to control costs by cutting payments to providers, there are probably some who will just decide to opt into a private insurance system. Call it "premium" network. There are actually lots of rich people who don't want to go to the same hospital as "other people".

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:25 PM

46. And you are on their side?

 

Not the "other people"

Meanwhile kids whose parents can't afford any health care - the "other people" - have no other recourse than hope like hell Bernie defeats your candidate.

You really are quite f'n wrong here. You should just stop.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:28 PM

50. It's going to take some time, but it's a fact that

a universal, one-risk-pool system will cover more people with better care for lower cost.

My health care is free (I'm a disabled vet, and I get the best care.) So why do I support paying into a tax-based system?

I'll let you see if you can answer that.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:26 PM

76. You're not being honest, and you keep playing this game in thread after thread.

 

There's a saying from middle school boy's restrooms: If you shake it more than twice, you're playing with yourself.

You have shaken it hundreds of times at this point.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:26 AM

89. Should we end public schools because ...

some rich folks send their kids to private schools?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:05 PM

16. Do some research

 

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:06 PM

20. The US healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world.

Behind the countries that have single payer.
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

So if you are happy with a ranking of 37, perhaps you are in the 1% and have no worries. But for the rest of us, this profit driven system is a mess.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:44 PM

59. Supplementary insurance will no doubt continue to exist (at a price), under Medicare for All, as it

does now under Medicare for All. And the cadillac plan tax, which I have always found outrageous, may not apply under Medicare for All.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:57 PM

5. Because they need to justify their faith in the Bern. nt

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:57 PM

6. they get to decide what THEY stand for

bernie is running on a very progressive plan, and many of us support that. some dems will run on another plan, and you free to support that instead.

and thus, the primary battle

but to your point, many of us feel that the party has been sliding right for some time on several issues. the progressive left would like to shift it back left. also, a deeper contrast with republicans may help win the ge.

no one is telling you how to think. we all argue our points, its what we do here

cheers

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM

10. then why are so many people calling

 

Clinton a Republican?

She seems to represent mainstream Democratic Party platform

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:10 PM

25. Mainstream democratic platform is to not raise any taxes on uber-upper-upper

 

upper-upper-middle class?

That's it? Thats what the party stands for?

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:20 PM

39. yes if you listen to Obama and Clinton

 

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:34 PM

54. Ok if you are satisfied with that.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM

41. the mainstream party platform

as some see it, has drifted so far to the center/center right, some policies approximate policies of centrist leaning or more "liberal" republicans.

one example that is important to me...the death penalty. i think it should be a basic plank of the dem platform that this just is not the way to handle criminals in a civilized society. unfortunately, the dem platform does not have that position. i know many dems support it, but i would like to see the party as a whole come out against it. individual dems can do what they want if they want to hold a different position. and we know that repubs are all for it.

many feel that centrist positions are better because most people are neither very left not very right. i think with the popularity of sanders and trump, we are seeing people drift more to the "pure" party philosophy on both sides. so clinton, who tends to inhabit the more center area of the party, might be seen as closer to some republican ideals than left leaning progressive dems.

personally, i am not a big fan of party labels anyway.what people stand for matters most.

just my two cents.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:26 PM

49. So, when does supporting H-1B quotas make her representing "mainstream Democratic Party platform"?

 

Her last statement on that 8 years ago was supporting it the way companies like Tata paid her to do so, NOT what her human American Democratic Party constituents wanted!!!

Heck, even candidates like Trump and Cruz get that people want this, even if they are also trying to conflate that with their xenophobic "product" too.

THAT is why Bloomberg is threatening to enter the race almost the same day he says he wants to get rid of H-1B visa limits, to let the corporate world know that he'd be the one that represents THEIR interests if Hillary can't be there to do so against Trump or Cruz. If it is Bernie against one of those two, those depending on those 1%er socialist benefits to themselves will lose out when H-1B gets pushed aside for better immigration and temporary work options to help the working class globally than their race to the bottom mantras.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM

8. Because there is a huge difference

between Democrats and "New Democrats.

That "new Democrat" definition came from
Bill Clinton.

Perhaps the old kind of Democrats showed more
sense for helping most people.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM

9. His supporters have hijacked social media

to push the right wing smear that Hillary is corrupt and untrustworthy. The polling shows that most of his supporters will NOT accept Hillary as the nominee. Why? Because they are militant and will demand their way or no way.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:04 PM

15. Hillary supporters don't know how to use social media?

Or perhaps there just aren't as many of them as we're led to believe?

I just really don't get that complaint. And that 'smear' isn't being 'pushed' as much as it's simply, and unfortunately, the impression that many people have of her. She seems to change her stance according to polls, not according to convictions. People notice that.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM

44. We've seen how BS supporters "use" social media ...

... like swarming the FaceBook pages of any Democrat who endorses HRC, and leaving vile comments about their mental state, their loyalty to their fellow Democrats, their willingness to "sell out" their country - all because they had the audacity to support someone other than Bernie.

As they say, "that's gonna leave a mark" - and it has. I won't forget what was said to progressive icons like John Lewis any time soon.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM

35. How is it possible to "hijack" social media?

The great thing about social media is that everybody gets to use it. All you need is an Internet connection, which just about everybody has these days. Want to get your opinion out there? Just for starters there's Facebook, Twitter, reddit, Youtube, and a zillion blogs. Using them is cheap (free, usually) and easy. Nobody can monopolize social media. Don't like it that Bernie's supporters have a huge presence on the Internet? What's stopping you and the other Hillary supporters from getting out there and talking her up, too? The Internet is where it's happening now, so maybe Hillary's folks need to get with the program. Don't blame Sanders' folks for using all available resources.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:59 PM

11. They don't.

 

I am a proud Democrat and if they doubt me I don't give a damn!

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 01:31 AM

83. + a million

And never have.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:00 PM

12. because they act like

 

what democrats are suppose to stand for. I guess that got lost somewhere along the way.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:00 PM

13. We do?!?

Yay!!! Good DOES prevail!!

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Response to Matariki (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:06 PM

18. + 1000

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:06 PM

17. BECAUSE REVOLUTION!!!!! *** *** except for reparations

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:09 PM

24. +1,000,000

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:10 PM

26. You want reparations?

How would that work?

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:15 PM

28. Yes of course, national baseline funding for 1 - 12 free room and board for college

... and all sentences cut into 25% of their time with voting abilities restored.

Not a dime extra is spent

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:25 PM

47. How do you decide who gets reparations?

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:33 PM

53. Those directly effected by Jim Crow, War on drugs, native American genocide and stupid

... republicans.

Not that hard, that's the low hanging fruit,

Either way, revolution with an asterisk by it isn't revolution

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:38 PM

80. So you decide what "revolution" means. Got it.

Good luck with getting Clinton to go along with reparations, although you do make it sound easy.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #80)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:12 AM

84. Wait, isn't that EXACTLY what Sanders is doing?! Defining what revolution for everyone

... else by clinging to a set of left wing tenants and then being pragmatic on others like reparations?!

Revolution with an asterisk isn't revolution

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #84)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:14 AM

93. He's the candidate. All his proposals have a funding mechanism.

Reparations has no funding mechanism and is a non-starter.

It's odd how you keep harping on reparations when none of our candidates are supporting them.

You seem to have an all-or-nothing approach but have settled on a candidate who says and promises nothing. Odd.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #93)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 11:35 AM

96. Reparations does have a funding mechanism, that's false.. and like I've said about Sanders he

... has an all or nothing approach to and have chided others for compromising calling them rightward and weak before for compromising.

Its starting to look like Sanders throws stones and lives in a glass house now

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:07 PM

97. Why do you support a candidate who does not agree with your demands?

At least Sanders supports free tuition (not room and board) for public colleges and universities. You'll get closer to what you want with Sanders, nothing from Clinton.

And how would the reparations you want be funded?

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:23 PM

98. She's not the revolution candidate, why are we going over this again?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #98)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:32 PM

99. You listed a bunch of things you wanted, yet your candidate does not support any of it.

What's up with that?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:37 PM

55. Then why isn't Hillary supporting them?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:41 PM

57. She's not the revolution candidate Sanders is, she's not sticking herself with that title

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:07 PM

21. Hill2016, I am sorry but most of what we've seen of your

most recent posts, we hold under suspicion.

Soiry. Just do.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:16 PM

29. Who is "we?"

Is there a committee involved?

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:18 PM

33. Both of us. Mr and Ms 7wo7rees, mkay? nt

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM

42. Hookay.

I just get suspicious when someone uses the presumptuous "we" so freely.

Sorry, just do...

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 01:06 PM

104. Yep

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:08 PM

23. "no new taxes" is something democrats stand for? Like a foundational principle?

 

I can accept reasonable people disagreeing on if they are necessary or how much is required, but the country already has a party dedicated to being cheap.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:14 PM

27. Because we are Democrats and we vote. Get used to it.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:16 PM

30. but you don't get to call other the Democratic frontrunner

 

"conservative" or "Republican".

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM

34. Sure we do. Especially when they attack from the right.

 

This is the primary. This is when our party platform is defined. We are in a contest to define where we stand.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:21 PM

40. what if the majority of party voters

 

like the mainstream platform, thank you very much?

You going to call all of them conservative?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM

43. If the platform ends up conservative of course I will call it out.

 

This is not complicated stuff.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:31 AM

90. You forget we're not supposed to go against who the establishment picks out for us, remember?

eom

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:17 PM

32. Deciding who is a real Dem? You mean, like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073022

Or your own OP? Raising taxes suddenly has a party now and, surprise, surprise, it's not the Democratic Party?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM

37. Are you afraid you're going to lose your nanny, housekeeper and private school?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM

45. "His supporters" include

1 in every 3 registered Democrats. Bernie's not the problem. The problem is that fully 1/3 of the party ain't buying what the Beltway Establishment is selling.

We belong to a party in crisis -- one that can't win Congress, can't win state houses, can't win state legislatures. We have not found a way to connect with people, and it shows everywhere except the presidency. Blaming Bernie for illustrating this fact is just like blaming the kid in the fairy tale for finally pointing out that the emperor is buck naked.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:25 PM

48. And Obama broke his promise in order to fund the ACA. n/t

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:29 PM

51. Because Some Of Us Have Been Democrats For Decades... And Haven't Forgotten What A Real One Is...

 

Others have forgotten, and let others suffer as long as THEY are alright.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:54 PM

62. I remember Lyndon Johnson and the "Great Society."

Although he handled the Viet Nam war badly, he was a Democrat of the same ilk as FDR when it came to domestic policy. He promoted legislation upholding civil rights, public broadcasting, Medicare, Medicaid, aid to education, the arts, urban and rural development, public services, and the "War on Poverty," which helped millions rise above the poverty line. Civil rights laws he signed banned racial discrimination in public facilities, interstate commerce, the workplace, and housing, and the Voting Rights Act banned procedures that disenfranchised African Americans. Of course, Johnson had a Democratic majority in Congress. But I don't see any big ideas like the Great Society or the War on Poverty coming out of Clinton's campaign - just those Church Lady reminders that we can't have those things any more. "You can't have a bicycle for Christmas but if you're good and eat your peas maybe you'll get some new underwear." Sanders is a visionary; Clinton is just an ordinary politician.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:05 PM

67. Yep... 'This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things...'

 




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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:16 PM

73. LBJ was within months of a peace treaty in Vietnam

when Richard Nixon committed treason to help his election chances:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

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Response to catnhatnh (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:18 PM

74. Yeah, there was that.

Nixon was an evil bastard, for sure. On the other hand, there was the very dodgy Gulf of Tonkin incident during Johnson's administration.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #51)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:43 PM

102. THIS!! Spot on WillyT!

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:33 PM

52. Except $250,000 per year sure doesn't seem like "middle class."

Sure, you can pull out charts saying here is this strata of income and there is that strata of income and the cost of living is so much more in this part of the country than in another, but seriously, if your annual income exceeds the Social Security cap but is still less than $250,000, you'll probably survive if your taxes went up. Someone can cry me a river if they're in that group; they've been riding the gravy train for quite a while now.

To put it another way, Wall Street-friendly Clinton supporters don't get to redefine what "middle class" is. Those of us who are still in it or who used to be in it know what it is. And it sure as hell isn't a $250,000-per-year income.

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:45 PM

60. $250,000 is pretty high. But there are a lot of good Democrats making that.

 

So I can understand trying not to tick them off right now.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:49 PM

61. If they were good Democrats, they wouldn't complain like Republicans.

I get where you're coming from, but to placate this minority of Democrats doesn't sit well with the rabble.

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:01 PM

65. I agree, sounds a bit greedy.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:10 PM

69. Change 'mainstream' to 'establishment'...there you go...!

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:13 PM

71. They don't...nt

Sid

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:16 PM

72. Because they are so frightfully ideologically pure compared to the rest of us.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:26 PM

77. You'll find out why over the next 3 months why we get to decide!!! ;)

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:28 PM

78. Who says Hillary stands for Democratic policies

 

Protecting Wall St Banks over Main St Workers seems to be off policy

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:32 PM

79. You don't get to decide what the party stands for.

I don't get to decide what the party stands for.

The leaders of the party don't get to decide what the party stands for.

The politicians don't get to decide what the party stands for.




Only the Democratic voters as a whole get to decide what the party stands for. Here in a few months we'll know just what that is. If it's a continuation of where the party is headed or a change of direction, it's up to the voters and no one else. That's why the people we elect are called representatives.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:39 PM

81. 35 years of frustration.

 

That's how long we have been offered Democratic candidates who support Reagan's ideas.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:48 AM

82. Same way RW extremists like to dictate what a "patriot' is

Its just a phony superiority complex.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:07 AM

88. Thank you! That was the phrase I was going to use ...

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:23 AM

85. If your key reason for voting Democrat is keeping taxes low for $250k earners

 

Then this is indeed a battle for the soul of the Democratic party. The good thing about it though is that both sides get to make their case and see how has the most support. If you want the party to be centrist then all you have to do is convince more voters that is the best future for them and their families.

Good luck.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:30 AM

86. You would be wrong. On a great many things for that matter.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 06:04 AM

87. They don't

 

They just piously think they do. Ignore them. I still remember what happened to the last Democratic candidate that promised to raise taxes. He got slaughtered.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:31 AM

91. I'm a progressive. I'm a democrat.

 

They can call me what they want. And they have. Lol

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:33 AM

92. What a puzzling post.

Not raising taxes is a GOP mantra. Democrats have more common sense. If your insurance policy costs $10,000 a year but you can drop it if you pay $5,000 more in taxes for Medicare-For-All, isn't that a good deal?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:34 AM

94. I get to decide what I stand for as a democrat, therefore

this Bernie supporter decides what a democrat stands for. Hope that helps.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:55 AM

95. Seriously?

"Middle class" includes those who make $249,000 a year? Even though the median income for 2015 was about $53,657? This is part of the "mainstream" Democratic Party platform? Just asking....

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:35 PM

100. Are you saying blue dogs aka DINOs should be the ones to decide what a Democrat stands for?

Bernie is more of a Democrat than they will ever be.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:51 PM

103. Strange in this large thread the real answer got only a passing, dismissive "answer"

The platform is voted on by grassroots-elected local delegates, chosen democratically in a way completely free from corporate funding or media manipulation from among those who have done the grunt work at the local level for years. If you want to decide what the party stands for, do the damn work within it until you are elected as a delegate by your peers.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 07:55 AM

106. Look in the mirror when you ask that question.

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