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hill2016

(1,772 posts)
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:52 PM Jan 2016

Why do Bernie/his supporters get to decide what a Democrat stands for?

I support Clinton's promise not to raise taxes for middle class folks who earn less than $250k. So did Obama.

This seems to be mainstream Democratic Party platform.

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Why do Bernie/his supporters get to decide what a Democrat stands for? (Original Post) hill2016 Jan 2016 OP
Because the repubs have already claimed most of NoHope Hillary's policies. last1standing Jan 2016 #1
CrazyPants Sander's policies are very different from NoHope Hillary's. n/t cheapdate Jan 2016 #19
Another Sanders supporter heard from! merrily Jan 2016 #56
Yep. I respect him for his ideas cheapdate Jan 2016 #64
IIRC, you said he was your choice to win this primary. merrily Jan 2016 #66
You are correct. He's been my choice from the beginning. cheapdate Jan 2016 #68
Isn't that what the Sanders campaign is really about persuadable Jan 2016 #36
Because we have better saltpoint Jan 2016 #2
RIGHT ON, DUDE !!! pangaia Jan 2016 #101
The no true Scotsman fallacy mcar Jan 2016 #3
From both Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters. merrily Jan 2016 #58
Links to HRC supporters stating that mcar Jan 2016 #63
Who said the No True Scotsman fallacy applies only to supporters? There have been many threads and merrily Jan 2016 #70
Your examples are not the fallacy I was referencing mcar Jan 2016 #75
You mentioned "not real ("true") Democrats." My links were indeed relevant to that. merrily Jan 2016 #105
More taxes means RobertEarl Jan 2016 #4
Can everyone really have better health care under single payer? hill2016 Jan 2016 #7
You pay more for a cadillac RobertEarl Jan 2016 #14
not really hill2016 Jan 2016 #22
Lots of rich patients? RobertEarl Jan 2016 #31
I'm just saying hill2016 Jan 2016 #38
And you are on their side? RobertEarl Jan 2016 #46
It's going to take some time, but it's a fact that Ron Green Jan 2016 #50
You're not being honest, and you keep playing this game in thread after thread. arcane1 Jan 2016 #76
Should we end public schools because ... GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #89
Do some research Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #16
The US healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #20
Supplementary insurance will no doubt continue to exist (at a price), under Medicare for All, as it merrily Jan 2016 #59
Because they need to justify their faith in the Bern. nt Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #5
they get to decide what THEY stand for restorefreedom Jan 2016 #6
then why are so many people calling hill2016 Jan 2016 #10
Mainstream democratic platform is to not raise any taxes on uber-upper-upper Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #25
yes if you listen to Obama and Clinton hill2016 Jan 2016 #39
Ok if you are satisfied with that. Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #54
the mainstream party platform restorefreedom Jan 2016 #41
So, when does supporting H-1B quotas make her representing "mainstream Democratic Party platform"? cascadiance Jan 2016 #49
Because there is a huge difference sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #8
His supporters have hijacked social media Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #9
Hillary supporters don't know how to use social media? Matariki Jan 2016 #15
We've seen how BS supporters "use" social media ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #44
How is it possible to "hijack" social media? The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #35
They don't. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #11
+ a million Number23 Jan 2016 #83
because they act like 2pooped2pop Jan 2016 #12
We do?!? Matariki Jan 2016 #13
+ 1000 MissDeeds Jan 2016 #18
BECAUSE REVOLUTION!!!!! *** *** except for reparations uponit7771 Jan 2016 #17
+1,000,000 Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #24
You want reparations? Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #26
Yes of course, national baseline funding for 1 - 12 free room and board for college uponit7771 Jan 2016 #28
How do you decide who gets reparations? Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #47
Those directly effected by Jim Crow, War on drugs, native American genocide and stupid uponit7771 Jan 2016 #53
So you decide what "revolution" means. Got it. Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #80
Wait, isn't that EXACTLY what Sanders is doing?! Defining what revolution for everyone uponit7771 Jan 2016 #84
He's the candidate. All his proposals have a funding mechanism. Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #93
Reparations does have a funding mechanism, that's false.. and like I've said about Sanders he uponit7771 Jan 2016 #96
Why do you support a candidate who does not agree with your demands? Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #97
She's not the revolution candidate, why are we going over this again? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #98
You listed a bunch of things you wanted, yet your candidate does not support any of it. Qutzupalotl Jan 2016 #99
Then why isn't Hillary supporting them? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #55
She's not the revolution candidate Sanders is, she's not sticking herself with that title uponit7771 Jan 2016 #57
Hill2016, I am sorry but most of what we've seen of your 7wo7rees Jan 2016 #21
Who is "we?" Bobbie Jo Jan 2016 #29
Both of us. Mr and Ms 7wo7rees, mkay? nt 7wo7rees Jan 2016 #33
Hookay. Bobbie Jo Jan 2016 #42
Yep Kalidurga Jan 2016 #104
"no new taxes" is something democrats stand for? Like a foundational principle? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #23
Because we are Democrats and we vote. Get used to it. morningfog Jan 2016 #27
but you don't get to call other the Democratic frontrunner hill2016 Jan 2016 #30
Sure we do. Especially when they attack from the right. morningfog Jan 2016 #34
what if the majority of party voters hill2016 Jan 2016 #40
If the platform ends up conservative of course I will call it out. morningfog Jan 2016 #43
You forget we're not supposed to go against who the establishment picks out for us, remember? VulgarPoet Jan 2016 #90
Deciding who is a real Dem? You mean, like this? merrily Jan 2016 #32
Are you afraid you're going to lose your nanny, housekeeper and private school? neverforget Jan 2016 #37
"His supporters" include Proud Public Servant Jan 2016 #45
And Obama broke his promise in order to fund the ACA. n/t PoliticAverse Jan 2016 #48
Because Some Of Us Have Been Democrats For Decades... And Haven't Forgotten What A Real One Is... WillyT Jan 2016 #51
I remember Lyndon Johnson and the "Great Society." The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #62
Yep... 'This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things...' WillyT Jan 2016 #67
LBJ was within months of a peace treaty in Vietnam catnhatnh Jan 2016 #73
Yeah, there was that. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #74
THIS!! Spot on WillyT! jillan Jan 2016 #102
Except $250,000 per year sure doesn't seem like "middle class." Efilroft Sul Jan 2016 #52
$250,000 is pretty high. But there are a lot of good Democrats making that. Hoyt Jan 2016 #60
If they were good Democrats, they wouldn't complain like Republicans. Efilroft Sul Jan 2016 #61
I agree, sounds a bit greedy. Hoyt Jan 2016 #65
Change 'mainstream' to 'establishment'...there you go...! TheProgressive Jan 2016 #69
They don't...nt SidDithers Jan 2016 #71
Because they are so frightfully ideologically pure compared to the rest of us. DavidDvorkin Jan 2016 #72
You'll find out why over the next 3 months why we get to decide!!! ;) Armymedic88 Jan 2016 #77
Who says Hillary stands for Democratic policies FreakinDJ Jan 2016 #78
You don't get to decide what the party stands for. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #79
35 years of frustration. HassleCat Jan 2016 #81
Same way RW extremists like to dictate what a "patriot' is R B Garr Jan 2016 #82
Thank you! That was the phrase I was going to use ... NurseJackie Jan 2016 #88
If your key reason for voting Democrat is keeping taxes low for $250k earners Kentonio Jan 2016 #85
You would be wrong. On a great many things for that matter. Fearless Jan 2016 #86
They don't leftynyc Jan 2016 #87
I'm a progressive. I'm a democrat. NCTraveler Jan 2016 #91
What a puzzling post. Vinca Jan 2016 #92
I get to decide what I stand for as a democrat, therefore whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #94
Seriously? democrank Jan 2016 #95
Are you saying blue dogs aka DINOs should be the ones to decide what a Democrat stands for? Autumn Jan 2016 #100
Strange in this large thread the real answer got only a passing, dismissive "answer" whatthehey Jan 2016 #103
Look in the mirror when you ask that question. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #106

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
68. You are correct. He's been my choice from the beginning.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:05 PM
Jan 2016

For reasons which I've elaborated on many times before.

mcar

(42,210 posts)
63. Links to HRC supporters stating that
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:58 PM
Jan 2016

those who don't support their candidate are not "real" Democrats?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
70. Who said the No True Scotsman fallacy applies only to supporters? There have been many threads and
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:12 PM
Jan 2016

posts saying flat out that Bernie was not a Democrat. In this post downthread, I linked to one from a currect http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073049

And here's another post from today, strongly implying many Bernie supporters on this board are not really Democrats. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1072570

I happen to know how to find these because I was involved with them just today. I've seen many others in past months and find it odd that someone who is familiar with the board would need links to know that. In any event, I am pretty good at internet searches. However, I can't imagine what terms I could search DU for that would not yield thousands of irrelevant hits. Bernie supporter? Hillary supporter? real Democrat? Without a poster's name and an approximate date, I don't see finding what you're asking as a five minute task and I'm not willing to spend much more than that. But, you have one of each from today alone.

I suspect you'll do with them what everyone else does who asks for links.

Just went to latest threads and saw this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511073335

eta: We're right wingers, we're no different from right wingers, we're "left libertarians," we're racists; we're sexists; we're everything evil that is, or ever was, under the sun.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
105. You mentioned "not real ("true") Democrats." My links were indeed relevant to that.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 07:54 AM
Jan 2016

If you don't think so, you'll have to be specific.

The posts to which I linked you were those of Hillary supporters saying Bernie was not a real Democrat or his supporters are not real Democrats. Those are the links that you requested.

BTW, I am familiar with the no true Scotsman fallacy, but knowing what it is does not help me know why you think the links that I provided were not what you requested.

This is an example of why I seldom provide links anymore when Hillary supporters ask for them.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
4. More taxes means
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:56 PM
Jan 2016

Better take home pay and better health care for everyone.

H is against better health care for everyone, therefore is anti-democratic.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
7. Can everyone really have better health care under single payer?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM
Jan 2016

What if somebody now has a Cadillac insurance plan and is now forced to go onto a "Medicare for all" plan which a doctor might not accept?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
14. You pay more for a cadillac
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:03 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie won't stop that. But with a reformed health care industry even the cadillac plan will cost less. And if a doctor refuses the single payer concept he will soon be out of practice.

I get you hate the idea of better health care for poor people, heck that's an H policy, but really, why shout it out here?

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
22. not really
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:07 PM
Jan 2016

I'm sure there are lots of doctors who would be happy to stay out of the single payer system and lots of (rich) patients who are willing to pay cash.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
31. Lots of rich patients?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:16 PM
Jan 2016

You mean like the Clintons?

That is a small pie. Besides I bet the Clintons have gotten lots of free government health care.

I just don't get why anyone would actively shoot down better health care for everyone, but there you are.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
38. I'm just saying
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM
Jan 2016

there are two contradictory promises that Sanders make:

(1) The entire system saves money
(2) Everybody gets better coverage (same access to doctors, no co-pay, no deductibles, all drugs/procedures covered)

Hence he isn't being honest.

If you try to control costs by cutting payments to providers, there are probably some who will just decide to opt into a private insurance system. Call it "premium" network. There are actually lots of rich people who don't want to go to the same hospital as "other people".

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
46. And you are on their side?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:25 PM
Jan 2016

Not the "other people"

Meanwhile kids whose parents can't afford any health care - the "other people" - have no other recourse than hope like hell Bernie defeats your candidate.

You really are quite f'n wrong here. You should just stop.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
50. It's going to take some time, but it's a fact that
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:28 PM
Jan 2016

a universal, one-risk-pool system will cover more people with better care for lower cost.

My health care is free (I'm a disabled vet, and I get the best care.) So why do I support paying into a tax-based system?

I'll let you see if you can answer that.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
76. You're not being honest, and you keep playing this game in thread after thread.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:26 PM
Jan 2016

There's a saying from middle school boy's restrooms: If you shake it more than twice, you're playing with yourself.

You have shaken it hundreds of times at this point.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
20. The US healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jan 2016

Behind the countries that have single payer.
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

So if you are happy with a ranking of 37, perhaps you are in the 1% and have no worries. But for the rest of us, this profit driven system is a mess.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
59. Supplementary insurance will no doubt continue to exist (at a price), under Medicare for All, as it
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:44 PM
Jan 2016

does now under Medicare for All. And the cadillac plan tax, which I have always found outrageous, may not apply under Medicare for All.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
6. they get to decide what THEY stand for
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:57 PM
Jan 2016

bernie is running on a very progressive plan, and many of us support that. some dems will run on another plan, and you free to support that instead.

and thus, the primary battle

but to your point, many of us feel that the party has been sliding right for some time on several issues. the progressive left would like to shift it back left. also, a deeper contrast with republicans may help win the ge.

no one is telling you how to think. we all argue our points, its what we do here

cheers

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
10. then why are so many people calling
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM
Jan 2016

Clinton a Republican?

She seems to represent mainstream Democratic Party platform

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
25. Mainstream democratic platform is to not raise any taxes on uber-upper-upper
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:10 PM
Jan 2016

upper-upper-middle class?

That's it? Thats what the party stands for?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
41. the mainstream party platform
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

as some see it, has drifted so far to the center/center right, some policies approximate policies of centrist leaning or more "liberal" republicans.

one example that is important to me...the death penalty. i think it should be a basic plank of the dem platform that this just is not the way to handle criminals in a civilized society. unfortunately, the dem platform does not have that position. i know many dems support it, but i would like to see the party as a whole come out against it. individual dems can do what they want if they want to hold a different position. and we know that repubs are all for it.

many feel that centrist positions are better because most people are neither very left not very right. i think with the popularity of sanders and trump, we are seeing people drift more to the "pure" party philosophy on both sides. so clinton, who tends to inhabit the more center area of the party, might be seen as closer to some republican ideals than left leaning progressive dems.

personally, i am not a big fan of party labels anyway.what people stand for matters most.

just my two cents.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
49. So, when does supporting H-1B quotas make her representing "mainstream Democratic Party platform"?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:26 PM
Jan 2016

Her last statement on that 8 years ago was supporting it the way companies like Tata paid her to do so, NOT what her human American Democratic Party constituents wanted!!!

Heck, even candidates like Trump and Cruz get that people want this, even if they are also trying to conflate that with their xenophobic "product" too.

THAT is why Bloomberg is threatening to enter the race almost the same day he says he wants to get rid of H-1B visa limits, to let the corporate world know that he'd be the one that represents THEIR interests if Hillary can't be there to do so against Trump or Cruz. If it is Bernie against one of those two, those depending on those 1%er socialist benefits to themselves will lose out when H-1B gets pushed aside for better immigration and temporary work options to help the working class globally than their race to the bottom mantras.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
8. Because there is a huge difference
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM
Jan 2016

between Democrats and "New Democrats.

That "new Democrat" definition came from
Bill Clinton.

Perhaps the old kind of Democrats showed more
sense for helping most people.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
9. His supporters have hijacked social media
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:58 PM
Jan 2016

to push the right wing smear that Hillary is corrupt and untrustworthy. The polling shows that most of his supporters will NOT accept Hillary as the nominee. Why? Because they are militant and will demand their way or no way.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
15. Hillary supporters don't know how to use social media?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:04 PM
Jan 2016

Or perhaps there just aren't as many of them as we're led to believe?

I just really don't get that complaint. And that 'smear' isn't being 'pushed' as much as it's simply, and unfortunately, the impression that many people have of her. She seems to change her stance according to polls, not according to convictions. People notice that.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
44. We've seen how BS supporters "use" social media ...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

... like swarming the FaceBook pages of any Democrat who endorses HRC, and leaving vile comments about their mental state, their loyalty to their fellow Democrats, their willingness to "sell out" their country - all because they had the audacity to support someone other than Bernie.

As they say, "that's gonna leave a mark" - and it has. I won't forget what was said to progressive icons like John Lewis any time soon.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
35. How is it possible to "hijack" social media?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM
Jan 2016

The great thing about social media is that everybody gets to use it. All you need is an Internet connection, which just about everybody has these days. Want to get your opinion out there? Just for starters there's Facebook, Twitter, reddit, Youtube, and a zillion blogs. Using them is cheap (free, usually) and easy. Nobody can monopolize social media. Don't like it that Bernie's supporters have a huge presence on the Internet? What's stopping you and the other Hillary supporters from getting out there and talking her up, too? The Internet is where it's happening now, so maybe Hillary's folks need to get with the program. Don't blame Sanders' folks for using all available resources.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
12. because they act like
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jan 2016

what democrats are suppose to stand for. I guess that got lost somewhere along the way.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
28. Yes of course, national baseline funding for 1 - 12 free room and board for college
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:15 PM
Jan 2016

... and all sentences cut into 25% of their time with voting abilities restored.

Not a dime extra is spent

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
53. Those directly effected by Jim Crow, War on drugs, native American genocide and stupid
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:33 PM
Jan 2016

... republicans.

Not that hard, that's the low hanging fruit,

Either way, revolution with an asterisk by it isn't revolution

Qutzupalotl

(14,230 posts)
80. So you decide what "revolution" means. Got it.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:38 PM
Jan 2016

Good luck with getting Clinton to go along with reparations, although you do make it sound easy.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
84. Wait, isn't that EXACTLY what Sanders is doing?! Defining what revolution for everyone
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:12 AM
Jan 2016

... else by clinging to a set of left wing tenants and then being pragmatic on others like reparations?!

Revolution with an asterisk isn't revolution

Qutzupalotl

(14,230 posts)
93. He's the candidate. All his proposals have a funding mechanism.
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:14 AM
Jan 2016

Reparations has no funding mechanism and is a non-starter.

It's odd how you keep harping on reparations when none of our candidates are supporting them.

You seem to have an all-or-nothing approach but have settled on a candidate who says and promises nothing. Odd.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
96. Reparations does have a funding mechanism, that's false.. and like I've said about Sanders he
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jan 2016

... has an all or nothing approach to and have chided others for compromising calling them rightward and weak before for compromising.

Its starting to look like Sanders throws stones and lives in a glass house now

Qutzupalotl

(14,230 posts)
97. Why do you support a candidate who does not agree with your demands?
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:07 PM
Jan 2016

At least Sanders supports free tuition (not room and board) for public colleges and universities. You'll get closer to what you want with Sanders, nothing from Clinton.

And how would the reparations you want be funded?

Qutzupalotl

(14,230 posts)
99. You listed a bunch of things you wanted, yet your candidate does not support any of it.
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:32 PM
Jan 2016

What's up with that?

7wo7rees

(5,128 posts)
21. Hill2016, I am sorry but most of what we've seen of your
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:07 PM
Jan 2016

most recent posts, we hold under suspicion.

Soiry. Just do.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
42. Hookay.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

I just get suspicious when someone uses the presumptuous "we" so freely.

Sorry, just do...

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
23. "no new taxes" is something democrats stand for? Like a foundational principle?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:08 PM
Jan 2016

I can accept reasonable people disagreeing on if they are necessary or how much is required, but the country already has a party dedicated to being cheap.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
34. Sure we do. Especially when they attack from the right.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:19 PM
Jan 2016

This is the primary. This is when our party platform is defined. We are in a contest to define where we stand.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
40. what if the majority of party voters
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:21 PM
Jan 2016

like the mainstream platform, thank you very much?

You going to call all of them conservative?

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
43. If the platform ends up conservative of course I will call it out.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

This is not complicated stuff.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
32. Deciding who is a real Dem? You mean, like this?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:17 PM
Jan 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073022

Or your own OP? Raising taxes suddenly has a party now and, surprise, surprise, it's not the Democratic Party?

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
45. "His supporters" include
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Jan 2016

1 in every 3 registered Democrats. Bernie's not the problem. The problem is that fully 1/3 of the party ain't buying what the Beltway Establishment is selling.

We belong to a party in crisis -- one that can't win Congress, can't win state houses, can't win state legislatures. We have not found a way to connect with people, and it shows everywhere except the presidency. Blaming Bernie for illustrating this fact is just like blaming the kid in the fairy tale for finally pointing out that the emperor is buck naked.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
51. Because Some Of Us Have Been Democrats For Decades... And Haven't Forgotten What A Real One Is...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:29 PM
Jan 2016

Others have forgotten, and let others suffer as long as THEY are alright.


The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
62. I remember Lyndon Johnson and the "Great Society."
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:54 PM
Jan 2016

Although he handled the Viet Nam war badly, he was a Democrat of the same ilk as FDR when it came to domestic policy. He promoted legislation upholding civil rights, public broadcasting, Medicare, Medicaid, aid to education, the arts, urban and rural development, public services, and the "War on Poverty," which helped millions rise above the poverty line. Civil rights laws he signed banned racial discrimination in public facilities, interstate commerce, the workplace, and housing, and the Voting Rights Act banned procedures that disenfranchised African Americans. Of course, Johnson had a Democratic majority in Congress. But I don't see any big ideas like the Great Society or the War on Poverty coming out of Clinton's campaign - just those Church Lady reminders that we can't have those things any more. "You can't have a bicycle for Christmas but if you're good and eat your peas maybe you'll get some new underwear." Sanders is a visionary; Clinton is just an ordinary politician.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
74. Yeah, there was that.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:18 PM
Jan 2016

Nixon was an evil bastard, for sure. On the other hand, there was the very dodgy Gulf of Tonkin incident during Johnson's administration.

Efilroft Sul

(3,573 posts)
52. Except $250,000 per year sure doesn't seem like "middle class."
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:33 PM
Jan 2016

Sure, you can pull out charts saying here is this strata of income and there is that strata of income and the cost of living is so much more in this part of the country than in another, but seriously, if your annual income exceeds the Social Security cap but is still less than $250,000, you'll probably survive if your taxes went up. Someone can cry me a river if they're in that group; they've been riding the gravy train for quite a while now.

To put it another way, Wall Street-friendly Clinton supporters don't get to redefine what "middle class" is. Those of us who are still in it or who used to be in it know what it is. And it sure as hell isn't a $250,000-per-year income.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
60. $250,000 is pretty high. But there are a lot of good Democrats making that.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jan 2016

So I can understand trying not to tick them off right now.

Efilroft Sul

(3,573 posts)
61. If they were good Democrats, they wouldn't complain like Republicans.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jan 2016

I get where you're coming from, but to placate this minority of Democrats doesn't sit well with the rabble.

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
78. Who says Hillary stands for Democratic policies
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:28 PM
Jan 2016

Protecting Wall St Banks over Main St Workers seems to be off policy

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
79. You don't get to decide what the party stands for.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:32 PM
Jan 2016

I don't get to decide what the party stands for.

The leaders of the party don't get to decide what the party stands for.

The politicians don't get to decide what the party stands for.




Only the Democratic voters as a whole get to decide what the party stands for. Here in a few months we'll know just what that is. If it's a continuation of where the party is headed or a change of direction, it's up to the voters and no one else. That's why the people we elect are called representatives.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
81. 35 years of frustration.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jan 2016

That's how long we have been offered Democratic candidates who support Reagan's ideas.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
85. If your key reason for voting Democrat is keeping taxes low for $250k earners
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 05:23 AM
Jan 2016

Then this is indeed a battle for the soul of the Democratic party. The good thing about it though is that both sides get to make their case and see how has the most support. If you want the party to be centrist then all you have to do is convince more voters that is the best future for them and their families.

Good luck.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
87. They don't
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 06:04 AM
Jan 2016

They just piously think they do. Ignore them. I still remember what happened to the last Democratic candidate that promised to raise taxes. He got slaughtered.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
92. What a puzzling post.
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:33 AM
Jan 2016

Not raising taxes is a GOP mantra. Democrats have more common sense. If your insurance policy costs $10,000 a year but you can drop it if you pay $5,000 more in taxes for Medicare-For-All, isn't that a good deal?

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
94. I get to decide what I stand for as a democrat, therefore
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:34 AM
Jan 2016

this Bernie supporter decides what a democrat stands for. Hope that helps.

democrank

(11,052 posts)
95. Seriously?
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jan 2016

"Middle class" includes those who make $249,000 a year? Even though the median income for 2015 was about $53,657? This is part of the "mainstream" Democratic Party platform? Just asking....

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
100. Are you saying blue dogs aka DINOs should be the ones to decide what a Democrat stands for?
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie is more of a Democrat than they will ever be.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
103. Strange in this large thread the real answer got only a passing, dismissive "answer"
Wed Jan 27, 2016, 12:51 PM
Jan 2016

The platform is voted on by grassroots-elected local delegates, chosen democratically in a way completely free from corporate funding or media manipulation from among those who have done the grunt work at the local level for years. If you want to decide what the party stands for, do the damn work within it until you are elected as a delegate by your peers.

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